Insurance and learner drivers
Discussion
Driver must be insured. No requirement for supervisor.
As supervisor, you must be 21 or over and have held a full EC licence to drive that class of vehicle for three years.
It'd make sense to be insured for the vehicle, incase your young protégé has a shed collapse half way round your planned route.
As supervisor, you must be 21 or over and have held a full EC licence to drive that class of vehicle for three years.
It'd make sense to be insured for the vehicle, incase your young protégé has a shed collapse half way round your planned route.
esselte said:
If I am supervising a learner driver,do I have to be insured to drive the vehicle he is using?
This isn't against you, esselte, 'cos I obviously don't know you personally. But is it just me that doesn't like this sort of thing.
No dual controls. No training for the supervisor. Yet the learner (possibly/probably/likely not yet competent) is driving around in something capable of causing death and destruction.
Tell the learner driver to pay for more lessons, and keep us all safe.
Big Fat F'er said:
esselte said:
If I am supervising a learner driver,do I have to be insured to drive the vehicle he is using?
This isn't against you, esselte, 'cos I obviously don't know you personally. But is it just me that doesn't like this sort of thing.
No dual controls. No training for the supervisor. Yet the learner (possibly/probably/likely not yet competent) is driving around in something capable of causing death and destruction.
Tell the learner driver to pay for more lessons, and keep us all safe.
I dont agree 100% with this. We dont know the complete situation. After my girlfriend had approximately ten lessons, she bought a small car and after I was confident of her being capable to drive to a reasonable standard (no different to the general standard of driving in my area) I was happy to supervise her driving and I have no doubt that by the time she passed her test (first time with two minor faults) she had become a much more experienced and no doubt better driver than if she had not had the extra experience.
I agree that for the first few (mabe more) lessons a dual control vehicle is necessary. I know from this case however that I can categorically say that her standard of driving was no different the day after her test, as oppose to the day before. In fact I am happy to say that even though she has only been driving a few months due to the extra practice she had, she is way above average for the standard of driving in this area.
I live on the edge of Warrington which is connected by a roundabout every 100 yards. Once every couple of days whilst turning right at a roundabout I am 'overtaken' by someone also turning right. However they are turning right from the left lane, without using indicators, and definately without use of the mirror due to their look of shock when I have had to break harshly to stop my bonnet coming through their driver's side door...
Being able to 'supervise' it meant that by the time she came to her test she probably had about 8-10 times the driving experience than she would have done otherwise. I had the chance to show the the 'eccentricities' of some of the other drivers as explained above, and I have every confidence that now she can drive by herself she has become much more able to 'read the road' than as if she would be rushed through 15 lessons and bunged into the test and got lucky.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Sunday 23 October 14:09
Big Fat F'er said:
esselte said:
If I am supervising a learner driver,do I have to be insured to drive the vehicle he is using?
This isn't against you, esselte, 'cos I obviously don't know you personally. But is it just me that doesn't like this sort of thing.
No dual controls. No training for the supervisor. Yet the learner (possibly/probably/likely not yet competent) is driving around in something capable of causing death and destruction.
Tell the learner driver to pay for more lessons, and keep us all safe.
My son will be having lessons with a proper instructor in a dual control car,but I feel that once he is proficient in the safe basic handling of it then a bit more experience of general driving will not go amiss.I condiser my self a reasonable driver (don't we all!) doing approx 40k miles per year,no accidents (up to now)and only 1 3 pointer (via a hidden Mr Gatso 5 years ago)so I reckon that I would be able to help him avoid a lot of trouble.Obviously the busy times on the roads will be a no no but I see no harm in going out at the quiet times.
>> Edited by esselte on Sunday 23 October 15:03
I would suggest esselte (and others in the same situation) that you discuss what you intend doing with the drivers Instructor. He will be basing his Instruction on a plan on aspects to reach a pass at first attempt. As only a supervisor, items may creep in which are contrary to what the Instructor is aiming for thereby destroy his work or cause conflict.
dvd
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:
I would suggest esselte (and others in the same situation) that you discuss what you intend doing with the drivers Instructor. He will be basing his Instruction on a plan on aspects to reach a pass at first attempt. As only a supervisor, items may creep in which are contrary to what the Instructor is aiming for thereby destroy his work or cause conflict.
dvd
I completely agree. Being a supervisor is not as easy as sitting in the car, I found it actually more mentally a challenge than driving the car myself. With an inexperienced driver little lazy habits can quickly get established if you dont notice, such as proper shoulder checks, clutch riding etc and it can be difficult to get rid of these once they have established.
Dwight VanDriver said:
I would suggest esselte (and others in the same situation) that you discuss what you intend doing with the drivers Instructor. He will be basing his Instruction on a plan on aspects to reach a pass at first attempt. As only a supervisor, items may creep in which are contrary to what the Instructor is aiming for thereby destroy his work or cause conflict.
dvd
That's a good idea DVD.Might do that one.I suppose instructor's are aiming to teach to "pass the test" rather than anything else?
Big Fat F'er said:
If I am supervising a learner driver,do I have to be insured to drive the vehicle he is using?
This isn't against you, esselte, 'cos I obviously don't know you personally. But is it just me that doesn't like this sort of thing.
No dual controls. No training for the supervisor. Yet the learner (possibly/probably/likely not yet competent) is driving around in something capable of causing death and destruction.
Tell the learner driver to pay for more lessons, and keep us all safe.
My dad taught me to drive from scratch in a volvo 240- then I had 6 lessons to get me ready for the test and passed..
I suspect a lot of PHs were initially taught to drive by members of their family..
I see nothing wrong with this- you just need to pick the appropriate country lanes/empty industrial estates for the first few lessons until they get the hang of basic car control, gear changes etc....
Big Fat F'er said:
If I am supervising a learner driver,do I have to be insured to drive the vehicle he is using?
This isn't against you, esselte, 'cos I obviously don't know you personally. But is it just me that doesn't like this sort of thing.
No dual controls. No training for the supervisor. Yet the learner (possibly/probably/likely not yet competent) is driving around in something capable of causing death and destruction.
Tell the learner driver to pay for more lessons, and keep us all safe.
Liebchen - they have to practise. Our kids go go-karting und do some private land practices to get the "feel". We also encourage cycling und proficiency test to get fullest road sense within them und we have drummed in Green Cross all the time as they grow up.
We paid for eldest to have a block of lessons to get the formal instruction first und we added him as listed driver on our insurance policies to drive a car. We named ourselves as drivers for the runabout we bought him too as ist possible car ist last in driveway und easier to drive that instead of shunting cars around
We were patient with him (just
) - I jest here really - eldest ist sensiblest one. Our twins are a little feistier und lippier und sassier....but still controllable 
esselte, Liebchen - you need to be constructive und pleasant in your criticism - making it plain that silliest mistakes are par for course, expected, but at same time point out the potential dangers of such mistakes without losing it - und why COAST ist very important. I have never forgotten my own Papa telling me as I embarked on very first lesson that I could be capable of taking a life from someone by making an error. He said it in that quiet calm non-blaming matter of fact tone of voice which ist meaningful und impacts und LASTS . We got him to do this to his eldest grandson too und our twins. It sank in immediately.
After eldest practised with us - und various family members including my own Papa und the family BiBs - we then booked another block of lessons before his test to reinforce his learning und iron out any errors und focus him on test rubrics. Und when he passed - he went out on the motorway with us und other drives solo. He did his Pass Plus und ist now IAM pass after 12 months experience.
Biggest Fat F'er - ist nothing wrong with qualified driver supervising a practice drive or even a complete novice in safest area where little chance of conflict to enable person to get a "feel" of being behind a steering wheel. But I agree that learner should also book block of regular lessons at different time of day to get the formal instruction.
esselte said:
I would suggest esselte (and others in the same situation) that you discuss what you intend doing with the drivers Instructor. He will be basing his Instruction on a plan on aspects to reach a pass at first attempt. As only a supervisor, items may creep in which are contrary to what the Instructor is aiming for thereby destroy his work or cause conflict.
dvd
That's a good idea DVD.Might do that one.I suppose instructor's are aiming to teach to "pass the test" rather than anything else?
Frankly I think that's a terrible idea - precisely because they *might* be teaching to 'pass the test'. I'm sure we all know that passing the test is very very far from being a 'good driver'. Far better to gain experience of different cars, different viewpoints and different roads than go round usual test routes, learning things by rote and gaining no real skills, purely in the name of passing a test.
deckster said:
Dwight VanDriver said:
I would suggest esselte (and others in the same situation) that you discuss what you intend doing with the drivers Instructor. He will be basing his Instruction on a plan on aspects to reach a pass at first attempt. As only a supervisor, items may creep in which are contrary to what the Instructor is aiming for thereby destroy his work or cause conflict.
dvd
That's a good idea DVD.Might do that one.I suppose instructor's are aiming to teach to "pass the test" rather than anything else?
Frankly I think that's a terrible idea - precisely because they *might* be teaching to 'pass the test'. I'm sure we all know that passing the test is very very far from being a 'good driver'. Far better to gain experience of different cars, different viewpoints and different roads than go round usual test routes, learning things by rote and gaining no real skills, purely in the name of passing a test.
But passing the test is the first step to doing all of that.
My dad taught me to drive, and I really did learn to drive rather than just learn to pass my test.
As I was going to use his car, he made sure I was competent to go out on my own prior to letting me take a test.
I drove regually for 10 months on all roads (including a fair amount on national speed limit duel carridgeways) in all conditions (including snow and ice) before taking my test.
In my opinion this was fare more responsible than having me learn to pass my test by driving a few test routes with an instructor.
Phill
As I was going to use his car, he made sure I was competent to go out on my own prior to letting me take a test.
I drove regually for 10 months on all roads (including a fair amount on national speed limit duel carridgeways) in all conditions (including snow and ice) before taking my test.
In my opinion this was fare more responsible than having me learn to pass my test by driving a few test routes with an instructor.
Phill
Living in a quiet part of the world both my parents would take me out for "lessons" as well as the lessons with the Instructor. Nothing BAD ever happened. But then I didn't really find road driving all that complex.
I guess it depends on the character of the learner and the supervisor. I was a sensible lad with sensible parents. If I was a total muppet they would probably have declined my requests to go driving!
But to say that people should be forced to pay for lessons when someone else could teach them safely and for nothing is daft. I'm guessing whoever suggested that has never been short of £10 for this months rent, and learning to drive for free could well mean the difference between employed or dosser.
I guess it depends on the character of the learner and the supervisor. I was a sensible lad with sensible parents. If I was a total muppet they would probably have declined my requests to go driving!
But to say that people should be forced to pay for lessons when someone else could teach them safely and for nothing is daft. I'm guessing whoever suggested that has never been short of £10 for this months rent, and learning to drive for free could well mean the difference between employed or dosser.
How many are aware that when you learn to fly, you are accompanied by an instructor until you are competent to go solo, maybe after as little as 7 hours dual instruction, then the rest of your training up to PPL status is part dual, part solo.
Statistically, I wonder how many learner drivers have accidents.
The problem is not the way in which learners are taught, it the low level of ability required to pass the test in this country.
Statistically, I wonder how many learner drivers have accidents.
The problem is not the way in which learners are taught, it the low level of ability required to pass the test in this country.
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