S1 performance concern
Discussion
Took the newly acquired S1 for a whizz at lunch. Entered onto a Privately Owned dual carriageway and gave the car the obligatory 'beans' all the way up to around 70. A Peugeot 306 pulled out from lane 1 and accelerated. I continued a roll-on in fifth and found the Peugeot pulling away from me up to around 90 - 100. I have had the car for 3 days now and need to gauge exactly what I should be expecting from the car. In all fairness, my expectations certainly weren't what I experienced. Am I expecting too much from the K-series (K&N Filter and sports exhaust only)???
If it was a GTi or maybe even an HDi diesel turbo then it's not all that surprising. 90-100 in a straight line isn't exactly the Elises strongest ground.
Edit>> And you were in fifth - not surprised he left you. As Tiff said on his original Top Gear review "if you're in fifth, you're not having any fun!!" FWIW mine will hit well over 100 in fourth.
>> Edited by cuzza on Tuesday 25th October 16:32
Edit>> And you were in fifth - not surprised he left you. As Tiff said on his original Top Gear review "if you're in fifth, you're not having any fun!!" FWIW mine will hit well over 100 in fourth.
>> Edited by cuzza on Tuesday 25th October 16:32
teh std S1 box is geared for about 180mph in top....far too long...pressing it down in 5th is worthless. The Std 120bhp Elise isnt *that* quick over 80mph anyway (most German repmobiles will leave you for dust over that) ...about as quick as a normal 2L + saloon car to be honest. Power to weight can give good acceleration to a point.,..but you cant beat horsepower/torque and low .cd factor once you are abvoe the national speed limit Im afraid.
Stick to having fun on twisty B roads - much more satisfying
Stick to having fun on twisty B roads - much more satisfying
I think I was expecting this anyway. It seems really quick to 80. (Not quite as quick as the Blade, hehehe) But thereafter, it quickly runs out of steam. Fifth gear seems to be completely over-geared and not in-line with the ratios of the first four gears.
It is correct to say that around A/B roads and twisties the car is in it's element. Dual Carriageways and Motorways leave you frustrated a little bit. I have just sold a Bora TDi to get the Elise and that used to pull in sixth, all the way up to 125/130mph with relative ease. Horses for courses they say.
A note on handling, I have got Pirelli P-zeros fitted and the fronts are running at 1.7bar. I noticed that it wants to understeer when pushing hard into a bend. Are the tyres very sensitive to pressure?
It is correct to say that around A/B roads and twisties the car is in it's element. Dual Carriageways and Motorways leave you frustrated a little bit. I have just sold a Bora TDi to get the Elise and that used to pull in sixth, all the way up to 125/130mph with relative ease. Horses for courses they say.
A note on handling, I have got Pirelli P-zeros fitted and the fronts are running at 1.7bar. I noticed that it wants to understeer when pushing hard into a bend. Are the tyres very sensitive to pressure?
Tyres are very sensitive to tyre pressures.
I have just had a new set of Yokohamas (A539) fitted which I have to say seem so far to be pants. Having said that, I checked the pressures this morning. Having asked the depot to set them to 24psi front and 22psi rear, I fi=ound them to be 20 and 26 front and 19 and 23 rear, so no wonder really.
I have now set them and they seem better, but no where near as good as the worn AVS Sport Yoko's I had before....
Also, re your original post, opening up the intake with a filter and 52mm throttle body and the exhaust with a sports zorst will improve the free revving to easily allow almost top revs in 4th if you want it.....
I have just had a new set of Yokohamas (A539) fitted which I have to say seem so far to be pants. Having said that, I checked the pressures this morning. Having asked the depot to set them to 24psi front and 22psi rear, I fi=ound them to be 20 and 26 front and 19 and 23 rear, so no wonder really.
I have now set them and they seem better, but no where near as good as the worn AVS Sport Yoko's I had before....
Also, re your original post, opening up the intake with a filter and 52mm throttle body and the exhaust with a sports zorst will improve the free revving to easily allow almost top revs in 4th if you want it.....
The car is supposed to be fitted with a Lotus Sports Exhaust. How would I be able to tell if this is the case? Any major visual differences?
It was fitted with a Pipercross open filter (direct to the TB) This seemed to intake just hot air only as the original airbox and intake pipe remained in place. I have since removed this and opted for a K&N panel filter replacement. Should I have left the Pipercross in and removed the old airbox - re-routing the intake pipe?
Does a 52mm throttle body really make any difference?
Are any ECU mods required to get these all working together? I have seen some mickey-mouse ECU mods on ebay for about £20 IIRC. Any good?
Cheers
James
It was fitted with a Pipercross open filter (direct to the TB) This seemed to intake just hot air only as the original airbox and intake pipe remained in place. I have since removed this and opted for a K&N panel filter replacement. Should I have left the Pipercross in and removed the old airbox - re-routing the intake pipe?
Does a 52mm throttle body really make any difference?
Are any ECU mods required to get these all working together? I have seen some mickey-mouse ECU mods on ebay for about £20 IIRC. Any good?
Cheers
James
When I fitted the 52mm TB it made a difference to the free revving. Quotes of HP gains I think are total B*LL*X but it did make it want to rev more freely.... Mine used to be quite weezy at 6000rpm in 4th but now revs freely to over 6500in fourth..... 5th seems better too.
For £80 it was well worth it really. I have 57i K&N on mine, I have routed some cold air to it but it isn't a hurricane job, sounds good though
Re the panel filter, not sure never tried it...
You could also check the throttle 'slack'. get someone to sit in the car, pedal to the floor and check full throttle at the TB.
For £80 it was well worth it really. I have 57i K&N on mine, I have routed some cold air to it but it isn't a hurricane job, sounds good though
Re the panel filter, not sure never tried it...
You could also check the throttle 'slack'. get someone to sit in the car, pedal to the floor and check full throttle at the TB.
IIRC the Pug 306 TDi was one of the fastest cars 50-70 due to its great torque. Not surprised if you got left behind in 5th.
As you've found out, Elises are in their element on the twisty bits of A & B roads. I rarely go over 80 on the motorway in mine, largely because I like my license and also because its too bl**dy loud!
On the tyre situation, P0's are not really the best tyre for the Elise. It's too lightweight and generally acknowledged that, whilst be OK in the dry, in wet winter use they don't provide as much grip and progressiveness as you'd like.
If you're looking to replace them the best you can get are Yoko Advan Neova LTS (specifically designed for the S1), if you're on a budget go for BF Goodrich G-Force Profilers. Tyre pressures and geometry are key factors in the handling of the car. When did it last have an alignment/geo check?
Post a pic up of your exhaust and we'll probably be able to identify it from the standard piece of kit. It's fairly easy to see. Unless you take the undertray off and can root around for the stamp on the can (and unless there's markings on the tailpipes) that's probably the best you can do.
Re: filter, the best option is a fully enclosed system. Hurricane or ITG are the weapons of choice although others offer more budget solutions (piooly on here for instance offers a similar product). All you'll notice with an open cone filter vs the OE airbox and a replacement panel filter will be noise.
Bigger throttle body will make a minor difference to an untuned engine apart from maybe allow it to rev more freely. If it's an Ali job it's less likely to be prone to sticking like the plastic ones can do (although both my cars have had plastic ones and been fine).
Mickey-mouse ECU mods from eBay are exactly that. Leave well alone.
As you've found out, Elises are in their element on the twisty bits of A & B roads. I rarely go over 80 on the motorway in mine, largely because I like my license and also because its too bl**dy loud!
On the tyre situation, P0's are not really the best tyre for the Elise. It's too lightweight and generally acknowledged that, whilst be OK in the dry, in wet winter use they don't provide as much grip and progressiveness as you'd like.
If you're looking to replace them the best you can get are Yoko Advan Neova LTS (specifically designed for the S1), if you're on a budget go for BF Goodrich G-Force Profilers. Tyre pressures and geometry are key factors in the handling of the car. When did it last have an alignment/geo check?
Post a pic up of your exhaust and we'll probably be able to identify it from the standard piece of kit. It's fairly easy to see. Unless you take the undertray off and can root around for the stamp on the can (and unless there's markings on the tailpipes) that's probably the best you can do.
Re: filter, the best option is a fully enclosed system. Hurricane or ITG are the weapons of choice although others offer more budget solutions (piooly on here for instance offers a similar product). All you'll notice with an open cone filter vs the OE airbox and a replacement panel filter will be noise.
Bigger throttle body will make a minor difference to an untuned engine apart from maybe allow it to rev more freely. If it's an Ali job it's less likely to be prone to sticking like the plastic ones can do (although both my cars have had plastic ones and been fine).
Mickey-mouse ECU mods from eBay are exactly that. Leave well alone.
Try racing the Peugeout from 0-60 and see how it goes 
Racing from a rolling start is not very indicative of the cars performance.
For instance: in my old civic I could beat my friend in his Civic with more than 1.5 second in the quarter mile.
Then we tried racing on the highway going through 3-4-5th gear. It wasn't until we hit 5th (and well over 200 km/h) that I pulled away from him.
Racing from a rolling start is not very indicative of the cars performance.
For instance: in my old civic I could beat my friend in his Civic with more than 1.5 second in the quarter mile.
Then we tried racing on the highway going through 3-4-5th gear. It wasn't until we hit 5th (and well over 200 km/h) that I pulled away from him.
You summed it up - An S1 is quick up to 60 but is not a "fast" straight line car by todays standards.It's also quick around B roads but 115-120 bhp doesn't go a long way even with the low weight of the Elise on a dual carriageway. I use an S1 as my everyday car & it feels Very underpowered after my Caterham. In the Elise I won't try half the overtaking moves that I would in the Caterham.
That said the Caterham is 232bhp in about 500 kilos so nearly four times as powerful
That said the Caterham is 232bhp in about 500 kilos so nearly four times as powerful
How do you think I feel coming off a 172bhp (crank) motorcycling weighing 178kg (dry) re-geared for acceleration? It leaves you feeling a little short changed to say the least.
I am getting more used to the car as the days go by. Acceleration figures aside, I can say that a certain grin factor is experienced every time you squeeze through the tiny door. Handling is superb.
On the other hand, I can't quite work out how these cars are worth so much new?
I am getting more used to the car as the days go by. Acceleration figures aside, I can say that a certain grin factor is experienced every time you squeeze through the tiny door. Handling is superb.
On the other hand, I can't quite work out how these cars are worth so much new?
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