best way for a career in computing
Discussion
I know and work with quite a few web designers who are mainly self taught and work to a very high standard.
My most talented designer has done BSc and MSc in something computer related and because of this his work is awesome.
I've never really been inquisitive enough to look into Computeach etc as they've never really struck me as being that good.
Best bet is to practice practice practice. If he finds doing designing in his spare time fun and rewarding, then help as much as possible. If he finds it boring... he won't want to do it full time so not worth pursuing.
My most talented designer has done BSc and MSc in something computer related and because of this his work is awesome.
I've never really been inquisitive enough to look into Computeach etc as they've never really struck me as being that good.
Best bet is to practice practice practice. If he finds doing designing in his spare time fun and rewarding, then help as much as possible. If he finds it boring... he won't want to do it full time so not worth pursuing.
apache said:
My son is interested in this, can anyone suggest a way to break in?
Ere, mate, a word of advice, on the quiet, like.
Work bloody hard at school, get decent results, do a bit of Computer Science at college or University - depends what grade of job your doing, right? Then work at it for a few years, and your in the spoils.
If anyone asks, you didn't see me, right?
Wot SNE said.
For what it is worth, this is how I got into what I did:
- Good GCSE's and poor A-Levels at a well regarded school.
- Average degree, Coventry, 'cos I didn't know what I wanted to do, and because my A-Levels were shite.
- Year out at Barclays Bank on placement, working my nuts off.
- Got offered job by Barclays, worked my nuts off some more
- Fell out with Barclays, got lucky and got another job.
- Worked my nuts of some more
- Given the opportunity to progress quickly in a niche technology whilst working my nuts off
- Now one of the best in the country at what I do (if I do say so myself)
- Currently working for myself doing better than I ever thought I would.
-Still working my nuts off
So, in summary, work at it and hope for / make some luck.
Happy to offer advice etc fwiw...what is he looking to do - or does he really not know? What does he see himself doing whilst "working in IT"?
>> Edited by UpTheIron on Tuesday 25th October 20:11
For what it is worth, this is how I got into what I did:
- Good GCSE's and poor A-Levels at a well regarded school.
- Average degree, Coventry, 'cos I didn't know what I wanted to do, and because my A-Levels were shite.
- Year out at Barclays Bank on placement, working my nuts off.
- Got offered job by Barclays, worked my nuts off some more
- Fell out with Barclays, got lucky and got another job.
- Worked my nuts of some more
- Given the opportunity to progress quickly in a niche technology whilst working my nuts off
- Now one of the best in the country at what I do (if I do say so myself)
- Currently working for myself doing better than I ever thought I would.
-Still working my nuts off
So, in summary, work at it and hope for / make some luck.
Happy to offer advice etc fwiw...what is he looking to do - or does he really not know? What does he see himself doing whilst "working in IT"?
>> Edited by UpTheIron on Tuesday 25th October 20:11
I'd agree with UpTheIron.
From my personal experience, if you work hard you do tend to be rewarded. The past couple of jobs I've had, when I've handed my notice in, I've been asked to stay with revised contract terms including nice pay hikes and increases in benefits. There are a lot of IT people out there, most with qualifications coming out of their ears (I have no formal computing qualifications....yet!
), but it's no substitute for experience, a genuine interest in what you do at work and working DAMN hard
If he's not sure what he wants to do, tell him to keep an open mind. Maybe become familiar with a couple of languages...a working knowledge of Unix/Linux is always a nice thing to have. Depending on how old he is...maybe try getting work experience/summer job in IT somewhere, even if it isn't in the area he wants to go into. Experience is always a plus, and it might give him a better idea of what area he wants to go into.
HTH,
- A
From my personal experience, if you work hard you do tend to be rewarded. The past couple of jobs I've had, when I've handed my notice in, I've been asked to stay with revised contract terms including nice pay hikes and increases in benefits. There are a lot of IT people out there, most with qualifications coming out of their ears (I have no formal computing qualifications....yet!
), but it's no substitute for experience, a genuine interest in what you do at work and working DAMN hard If he's not sure what he wants to do, tell him to keep an open mind. Maybe become familiar with a couple of languages...a working knowledge of Unix/Linux is always a nice thing to have. Depending on how old he is...maybe try getting work experience/summer job in IT somewhere, even if it isn't in the area he wants to go into. Experience is always a plus, and it might give him a better idea of what area he wants to go into.
HTH,
- A
If you can afford it these come highly rated Cerco and they used to do a guaranteed job offer or money back on completion of the course. I don't know if they still do this but there training comes highly recommended and seems to be a good way for the lad to enter I.T.
I too left school with very little.
My way was school -> Royal Navy -> 2KO (MCSE, A+), expensive but very good (paid for by the Royal Navy) -> 2nd line -> 3rd line -> Manager.
I too left school with very little.
My way was school -> Royal Navy -> 2KO (MCSE, A+), expensive but very good (paid for by the Royal Navy) -> 2nd line -> 3rd line -> Manager.
I took a change in career direction into IT...
left uni with a 2:2 in chemistry and worked in the carfleet for a large company. Got fed up after 3 years, and replied to an ad in the Evening Standard for a company offering a course as per lee above. I spent £1000, and the company who employed me coughed up the rest!
I ended up at Veritas (now Symantec) working in tech support - very lucky! 4.5 years on and I'm earning very good money in presales.
Moral of the story? 1)I was very lucky 2) Tech support is a good place to start, choose the right company!
left uni with a 2:2 in chemistry and worked in the carfleet for a large company. Got fed up after 3 years, and replied to an ad in the Evening Standard for a company offering a course as per lee above. I spent £1000, and the company who employed me coughed up the rest!
I ended up at Veritas (now Symantec) working in tech support - very lucky! 4.5 years on and I'm earning very good money in presales.
Moral of the story? 1)I was very lucky 2) Tech support is a good place to start, choose the right company!
Apache,
How old is he...even if he has done A Levels and a degree that isn't really relevant it probably won't make a lot of difference.
A good friend of mine works for Accenture as a PM, with a maths degree and limited hands on experience, and I work with plenty of people who have no degree.
Getting a foothold on the career ladder is the key, and working hard but also a slice of look and having half decent management too (oh, and not being a complete tw*t helps!)
I'm not too far away from you (Wycombe, Bucks) and fwiw, and wouldn't mind having a drive over one weekend and having a chat with you and your lad about what I do, what I've done, the mistakes I've made etc if you think it would be worthwhile.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no Alan Sugar but I've done OK so far (imho, not that I wouldn't like to earn 10x what I do etc) and I have a few contacts who may / may not be able to help, or at the very least I may be able to give some insight into some of the options/careers that are out there...
How old is he...even if he has done A Levels and a degree that isn't really relevant it probably won't make a lot of difference.
A good friend of mine works for Accenture as a PM, with a maths degree and limited hands on experience, and I work with plenty of people who have no degree.
Getting a foothold on the career ladder is the key, and working hard but also a slice of look and having half decent management too (oh, and not being a complete tw*t helps!)
I'm not too far away from you (Wycombe, Bucks) and fwiw, and wouldn't mind having a drive over one weekend and having a chat with you and your lad about what I do, what I've done, the mistakes I've made etc if you think it would be worthwhile.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no Alan Sugar but I've done OK so far (imho, not that I wouldn't like to earn 10x what I do etc) and I have a few contacts who may / may not be able to help, or at the very least I may be able to give some insight into some of the options/careers that are out there...
I dont believe its a subject where book learning helps an awful lot.
Get him onto a starter course that proves his interest, from there an employer where he can keep his head down, do the job and most importantly interact with people (for this is a sadly lacking trait in IT departments globally) will set him up a lot quicker than A+ or ECDL or the like.
Theres no amount of standards and specifications that can prepare you for the IT range of catatonic through disaster that you go through in this bloody business.
Get him onto a starter course that proves his interest, from there an employer where he can keep his head down, do the job and most importantly interact with people (for this is a sadly lacking trait in IT departments globally) will set him up a lot quicker than A+ or ECDL or the like.
Theres no amount of standards and specifications that can prepare you for the IT range of catatonic through disaster that you go through in this bloody business.
Having interviewed with CodeMasters at the end of Uni a few years back I'd say if you want to get into games programming then:
1) Work hard at school
2) Go to Uni (a good one) and do CS (or CS/AI or similar)
3) Write some games in your spare time (I'd not done this, the interviewer was surprised)
1) Work hard at school
2) Go to Uni (a good one) and do CS (or CS/AI or similar)
3) Write some games in your spare time (I'd not done this, the interviewer was surprised)
robbieduncan said:
3) Write some games in your spare time (I'd not done this, the interviewer was surprised)
A lot of games developers are self taught to some degree, a raw uni graduate is not desirable compared to someone with actual 'hands on' experience. In reality your experience is what counts, a uni course is not even a pre-requisite if you can prove you can produce decent software.
I initially worked in Web design/development when I left uni, my path to it was:
Degree in Computer Science
Self-taught HTML
Summer job at Web design co during uni
Permanent job at top 5 Web design co after graduation
Job in high street retailer's e-com department
Then on to application development elsewhere.
I imagine games development is similar except substitute HTML for something like c or c++. Either way a degree is a good idea.
Degree in Computer Science
Self-taught HTML
Summer job at Web design co during uni
Permanent job at top 5 Web design co after graduation
Job in high street retailer's e-com department
Then on to application development elsewhere.
I imagine games development is similar except substitute HTML for something like c or c++. Either way a degree is a good idea.
I would stay clear of Commputech stuff to be honest. I am sure it is good for general stuff, but there are so many people in this part of the market that its ultra competitive and far too many chasing each job - not easy.
I would also stay clear of things like the MCSE qualifications (microsoft). Again, some colleges and unis give them away these days so not too good again. Not to say that the qualification is easy or crap - its just that lots of people have it these days.
In my case I did go to uni but actually got a job before I got my results! So in fact it didnt really matter. Previous qualifications again had no real bearing on jobs that I have had later on. What I would say though is the following:
1) Do some local college courses - some are pretty good
2) Get a local job with a smallish firm - lots of diverse experience
3) Work damn hard for a couple of years - understand where want to specalise
4) Get some specific qualifications - in key area
5) Get another job and work forward !!!
Its a bizarre market and you can find yourself doing things that you would have never thought you would like / dislike. I have always been in networking but found myself all over the place and now currently a country manager for a security specialist company! Not quite what I had planned but enjoying it.
However, one word of caution though - I have stuck to this all of my career - someone always know more than you do! Best not get too big for your boots.
I would also stay clear of things like the MCSE qualifications (microsoft). Again, some colleges and unis give them away these days so not too good again. Not to say that the qualification is easy or crap - its just that lots of people have it these days.
In my case I did go to uni but actually got a job before I got my results! So in fact it didnt really matter. Previous qualifications again had no real bearing on jobs that I have had later on. What I would say though is the following:
1) Do some local college courses - some are pretty good
2) Get a local job with a smallish firm - lots of diverse experience
3) Work damn hard for a couple of years - understand where want to specalise
4) Get some specific qualifications - in key area
5) Get another job and work forward !!!
Its a bizarre market and you can find yourself doing things that you would have never thought you would like / dislike. I have always been in networking but found myself all over the place and now currently a country manager for a security specialist company! Not quite what I had planned but enjoying it.
However, one word of caution though - I have stuck to this all of my career - someone always know more than you do! Best not get too big for your boots.
off_again said:Agree that an MCSE won't get you a job, as they are a dime a dozen these days.
I would also stay clear of things like the MCSE qualifications (microsoft). Again, some colleges and unis give them away these days so not too good again. Not to say that the qualification is easy or crap - its just that lots of people have it these days.
BUT
MCSEs are often the first thing a prospective employee filters applicants with. A mix of experience (mandatory) and qualifications (desirable) is best
In India a lot of 'computer graduates' have MCSEs and have never seen a PC
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