Legal/ethical question about being paid...
Discussion
OK, here`s a good one
I moved away from dear blighty a while back in the summer and I`m now living the high life, far away from the Tony and the chav brigade.
Anyway, today, I decided to check my UK bank balance online and to my surprise, the company that I used to work for has continued to pay me these past few months. Obviously, this won`t go on forever as I`m sure they`ll twig it soon and they`ll ask for the money back. I left the company because of their refusal to pay a bonus I was due, so I feel that this money is mine anyway and I`ll transfer it out of my account ASAP. But I`m curious of the legal position on this? Who does this money belong to if it was paid by mistake? They have zero ways of contacting me as I didn`t give them any forwarding addresses. Even though the good person inside me wants to own up, I hate the company directors so much, that I`ll hang onto the money if they don`t have a legal foothold.
So then, maybe I`ll go and buy that new car next week ;)
I moved away from dear blighty a while back in the summer and I`m now living the high life, far away from the Tony and the chav brigade.
Anyway, today, I decided to check my UK bank balance online and to my surprise, the company that I used to work for has continued to pay me these past few months. Obviously, this won`t go on forever as I`m sure they`ll twig it soon and they`ll ask for the money back. I left the company because of their refusal to pay a bonus I was due, so I feel that this money is mine anyway and I`ll transfer it out of my account ASAP. But I`m curious of the legal position on this? Who does this money belong to if it was paid by mistake? They have zero ways of contacting me as I didn`t give them any forwarding addresses. Even though the good person inside me wants to own up, I hate the company directors so much, that I`ll hang onto the money if they don`t have a legal foothold.
So then, maybe I`ll go and buy that new car next week ;)
I'd transfer it to the highest interest rate savings account I could find and store it there until they ask for it back.
I believe that technically it's stealing, i.e. knowingly depriving others, but if they've been dicks to you then it's pretty fair, just don't get in the way when they find out and demand it back.
I believe that technically it's stealing, i.e. knowingly depriving others, but if they've been dicks to you then it's pretty fair, just don't get in the way when they find out and demand it back.
Yes, theft I'm afraid.
You are legally obliged to notify them at once. Once you have done that, you should be in the clear regarding immediate prosecution although if they take no action to recover within a reasonable time the onus will pass to you to pay it back. However, as long as you can be seen to have taken reasonable steps to notify them of their error, I doubt that you would be prosecuted.
As advised, stick it in a high interest account for the moment because you should be able to keep any interest that is genetrated - within reason, of course.
You are legally obliged to notify them at once. Once you have done that, you should be in the clear regarding immediate prosecution although if they take no action to recover within a reasonable time the onus will pass to you to pay it back. However, as long as you can be seen to have taken reasonable steps to notify them of their error, I doubt that you would be prosecuted.
As advised, stick it in a high interest account for the moment because you should be able to keep any interest that is genetrated - within reason, of course.
The police will not be interested. It will be a civil debt recovery. You can at face value argue you were owed this money. you did work for them.
Ive had the same thing the other way around. Police not intersted at all. Had to pursue it via the courts. Settled out of court.
I would write to the company, tell them that you were owed x from your contract, and here is the balance back. if they disagree then sue me. As you are abroad they wont.
Ive had the same thing the other way around. Police not intersted at all. Had to pursue it via the courts. Settled out of court.
I would write to the company, tell them that you were owed x from your contract, and here is the balance back. if they disagree then sue me. As you are abroad they wont.
If you were legally entitled to that bonus, I'd say you have a counter claim.
A neighbour of mine, when he left BT, found that they tried to withold his bonus. He took them to court, or a tribunal etc, and won his case. Essentially BT were just trying it on in the hope he wouldn't fight.
I would keep the unexpected loot in a good account. If you are confident on your bonus position, then when your old company eventually wakes up, you can return the extra minus the bonus.
A neighbour of mine, when he left BT, found that they tried to withold his bonus. He took them to court, or a tribunal etc, and won his case. Essentially BT were just trying it on in the hope he wouldn't fight.
I would keep the unexpected loot in a good account. If you are confident on your bonus position, then when your old company eventually wakes up, you can return the extra minus the bonus.
I think that would be legally questionable.
Don't forget that in the last 18 months the Proceeds of Crime Act has been introduced which really ups the ante on the reporting of "fraudulent" income.
I am pretty sure you are legally obliged to notify them. If you have a countyer claim for a bonus, you can make that claim in the diosclosure letter.
Don't forget that in the last 18 months the Proceeds of Crime Act has been introduced which really ups the ante on the reporting of "fraudulent" income.
I am pretty sure you are legally obliged to notify them. If you have a countyer claim for a bonus, you can make that claim in the diosclosure letter.
superlightr said:
The police will not be interested. It will be a civil debt recovery. You can at face value argue you were owed this money. you did work for them.
Ive had the same thing the other way around. Police not intersted at all. Had to pursue it via the courts. Settled out of court.
I would write to the company, tell them that you were owed x from your contract, and here is the balance back. if they disagree then sue me. As you are abroad they wont.
What he said. Its a civil matter and a damned expensive and lengthy process for them to obtain any further redress from you.
Eric Mc said:
Yes, theft I'm afraid.
You are legally obliged to notify them at once. Once you have done that, you should be in the clear regarding immediate prosecution although if they take no action to recover within a reasonable time the onus will pass to you to pay it back. However, as long as you can be seen to have taken reasonable steps to notify them of their error, I doubt that you would be prosecuted.
As advised, stick it in a high interest account for the moment because you should be able to keep any interest that is genetrated - within reason, of course.
Is it really theft Eric? Id someone left their coat at my house and I hung it up in the hall for "safekeeping" until they realised and asked for it back,would that be theft too?
Yes.
It's not yours - give it back.
I am being serious here. If you run a business and a customer overpays you, you MUST inform the customer with a view to refunding the excess. If you don't, you will have commited a criminal (not civil) offence under The Proceeds of Crime Act.
The law regarding what constitutes criminla theft underwent some fundamental changes in recent years.
It's not yours - give it back.
I am being serious here. If you run a business and a customer overpays you, you MUST inform the customer with a view to refunding the excess. If you don't, you will have commited a criminal (not civil) offence under The Proceeds of Crime Act.
The law regarding what constitutes criminla theft underwent some fundamental changes in recent years.
Likewise if a bank makes an erroneous credit into your account and you knowingly spend it then I think this is also theft.
Personally, I would write to the company enclosing details of the bonus you believe you are due. Write them a cheque for the balance marked 'in full and final settlement'. If they cash it then they have no further recourse.
Personally, I would write to the company enclosing details of the bonus you believe you are due. Write them a cheque for the balance marked 'in full and final settlement'. If they cash it then they have no further recourse.
bit confused as to what the proceeds of crime act has to do with anything, this statute is used almost exclusively for money laundering offences, although theoretically it can be used with regards to cash offences and unlawful conduct relating to money, as it provides for the seizure of such cash inland, unlike previous legislation, which only applied to ports.
However this is a civil remedy, so the CPS is unable to act on behalf of the police with regards to this matter. It is highly unlikely to be used in cases over wage overpayments/payments not due, or mrs miggins being swindled out of tuppence at the pie shop...
Anyway, theft is s1.1 theft act 1968- "dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.."
"property belonging to another" CAN include overpayment of wages (AG reference #1 of 1983), and more importantly in this case: the mistaken crediting of a bank account (R V Shadrokh-Cigari 1988).
So the moneys not yours and you should contact the company to divest yourself of it.
An alternative of course would be to stick it in ING and the like and sit tight, it may be your wages wernt quite right in your last paypacket before you left, and the money you received by BACS from this CO was money you were expecting to redress this imbalance, what?...
However this is a civil remedy, so the CPS is unable to act on behalf of the police with regards to this matter. It is highly unlikely to be used in cases over wage overpayments/payments not due, or mrs miggins being swindled out of tuppence at the pie shop...
Anyway, theft is s1.1 theft act 1968- "dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.."
"property belonging to another" CAN include overpayment of wages (AG reference #1 of 1983), and more importantly in this case: the mistaken crediting of a bank account (R V Shadrokh-Cigari 1988).
So the moneys not yours and you should contact the company to divest yourself of it.
An alternative of course would be to stick it in ING and the like and sit tight, it may be your wages wernt quite right in your last paypacket before you left, and the money you received by BACS from this CO was money you were expecting to redress this imbalance, what?...
rsvmilly said:
Likewise if a bank makes an erroneous credit into your account and you knowingly spend it then I think this is also theft.
Personally, I would write to the company enclosing details of the bonus you believe you are due. Write them a cheque for the balance marked 'in full and final settlement'. If they cash it then they have no further recourse.
not true as far as I know, if the inland revenue cash a cheque you send for less than the balance than is due to them, it is not a legal sign of acceptance of the amount in full and final settlement.
cant remember the case but ill look it up later..
princeperch said:The IR are excempt from lots of legislation - like the statute of limitations.
Likewise if a bank makes an erroneous credit into your account and you knowingly spend it then I think this is also theft.
Personally, I would write to the company enclosing details of the bonus you believe you are due. Write them a cheque for the balance marked 'in full and final settlement'. If they cash it then they have no further recourse.
not true as far as I know, if the inland revenue cash a cheque you send for less than the balance than is due to them, it is not a legal sign of acceptance of the amount in full and final settlement.
cant remember the case but ill look it up later..
I believe the above situation would be binding for a private company/individual, though. Let me know what you find out.
looks like it is the case, found a few adjudication cases which support what you say: such as Andrew Bracken and Ann Trickett v Graham Billinghurst TCC 10 June 2003, which stated that presenting and cashing a cheque which has been offered in full and final settlement of a dispute will generally constitute clear acceptance of that offer of settlement.
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