RE: White Lines Removed
Thursday 14th November 2002
White Lines Removed
Interesting safety experiment or 'total madness'?
Discussion
I've read about the experiment in Holland and it really worked. They removed lines, traffic lights from junctions, bollards etc and the accident rate came down dramatically (can't remember figures). The most effective bit was removing traffic lights and raod marking at some junctions. It not only decreased accidents (drivers come up to the junction slowly and look in all directions as they don't know where another car may be coming from)but also reduced congestion. I think the principle is great, it encourages drivers to think about what they're doing instead of switching off and assuming that the traffic system will control itself and they just have to sit and listen to the radio until they're home.
Do I get a prize for posting this in the forums yesterday!!
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=21850
About post 19 on teh list.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=21850
About post 19 on teh list.
Maybe we should try this in other counties too. Let's start by removing those spurious occurences of 40 parallel whites dashes. You know; the ones preceded by a metal pole with a yellow(?) box on the top. In fact, let's remove those too. Then drivers could actually concentrate on what they were doing even more.This might work in places where traffic flow is very light but can you imagine anywhere were you get a decent volume of traffic going through the junction? Sure, everyone would slow down to approach it, but then you'd get a terrible snarl-up as people tried to make their way across stop-starting all the time. All you'd need is one numpty at the head of your lane and you'd be there all day.
Well I had the experience of driving through one of these villages on the Southbound A338 between Marlborough and Salisbury last Sunday.
I was surprised to see that the lines had been burned away, especially since the vast majority of drivers who go through the villages on that route DO keep to the speed limit, party I suspect because the villages in Wiltshire have been so strictly enforced for at least the last 5 years.
All I can say is that I regard the removal of the lines as bloody dangerous. In circumstances where I'm driving through a small village, in the rain, at night, without the benefit of local knowledge, I moderate my speed and take extra care as any sensible person would. However the pr!ck who I came towards me in the middle of the road around a blind bend where the lines had been removed, almost forcing me into someone's front garden to avoid him, was clearly confused by the removal of the lines.
I appreciate (but don't understand) the "logic" behind the removal of the lines, but fail to see why it is that I should becomes an unnecessary accident statistic for some egghead in Wilts CC to analyse to see if it's working or not. I suggest the person who made this decision drives through there in the same conditions I had to, to appreciate the pure danger that's now been created.
The enforcement of these villages over the years (via Police & GATSO) has been a success. Removing the lines just makes the roads bloody dangerous in circumstances where road visibility (ie in the rain at night) is compromised.
2p ker-plinck!
John
I was surprised to see that the lines had been burned away, especially since the vast majority of drivers who go through the villages on that route DO keep to the speed limit, party I suspect because the villages in Wiltshire have been so strictly enforced for at least the last 5 years.
All I can say is that I regard the removal of the lines as bloody dangerous. In circumstances where I'm driving through a small village, in the rain, at night, without the benefit of local knowledge, I moderate my speed and take extra care as any sensible person would. However the pr!ck who I came towards me in the middle of the road around a blind bend where the lines had been removed, almost forcing me into someone's front garden to avoid him, was clearly confused by the removal of the lines.
I appreciate (but don't understand) the "logic" behind the removal of the lines, but fail to see why it is that I should becomes an unnecessary accident statistic for some egghead in Wilts CC to analyse to see if it's working or not. I suggest the person who made this decision drives through there in the same conditions I had to, to appreciate the pure danger that's now been created.
The enforcement of these villages over the years (via Police & GATSO) has been a success. Removing the lines just makes the roads bloody dangerous in circumstances where road visibility (ie in the rain at night) is compromised.
2p ker-plinck!
John
I like the one about the ice cream van, l must try that on my kids; could save a fortune.
On the matter of white lines, in Gurnsey the system at road junctions was that alternate cars had priority. Most of the time drivers had no idea who was last over the line so would approach all junctions with great care and courtesy. Appeared to work but then the island is not quite as busy as the South Circular.
On the matter of white lines, in Gurnsey the system at road junctions was that alternate cars had priority. Most of the time drivers had no idea who was last over the line so would approach all junctions with great care and courtesy. Appeared to work but then the island is not quite as busy as the South Circular.
If they are removing white lines I take it they are removing the Cats Eyes as well:- Fantastic Invention that has saved more lifes than any other. I hope the Prat see's fit to stick his job on the line over this one, and yes If someone does Die or get Injured in these tests then I think he's got a good case against the Council.
ps In fog It's sometimes the only thing keeping me on the road even at 10MPH.
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Saturday 16th November 13:54
ps In fog It's sometimes the only thing keeping me on the road even at 10MPH.
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Saturday 16th November 13:54
e !
dickieandjulie said: This is a ridiculous idea, in poor weather we all us the line to guide us, in good weather it helps us judge gap sizes if vehicles are parked and there are oncoming vehicles AND drunk drivers use them to try and remain vaguely straight and hopefully avoid killing the rest of us!
thats exactly the point! your not not meant to drive in bad weather based on how far the reflection from paint is visible! try learning the width of your car, and planning ahead, not just following lines.
Im all for the removal on the right sort of roads. for those outside london, driving on B roads with no markings is a common occurence already. drivers are slower, more cautious, and slow. Ive been in france too, where some islands are unmarked, its a very safe place to be.
yes it wouldnt work on heavy routes I agree there.
I hate constant road signs telling me this and that, theres now that many, its a distraction not a useful warning. eg near me, new traffic lights are labelled with "new road layout" "traffic light warning", "speed reduction", "high up traffic light warning", "slow" and "ques likely.", these are BOTH sides of the road, so thats 10 signs!!!
how can jeremy C in top gear complain one minute about cameras trying to slow you down, then switch tack and complain about removing signs that lull drivers into speeding like lines in paint? there both there for similar reasons; to control drivers with warnings/fines for failing to drive accordingly.
its all back down to the common arguement, better driving skills, and removal from reliance on crap like signs to tell you whats coming - simple if you dont know whats round the corner, dont go round it so bloody fast!!
White lines are there to give the driver information about the road. The length of the white lines relative to the spaces give hazard warnings, lines along the edge indicate usable road surface, and gaps indicate turnings/side roads. Why do people want to take information *away* from drivers, and make the road more hazardous?
It might slow drivers down on safer stretches of road, but it may also lead to drivers going *faster than they would have* through hazardous stretches, because the hazard warnings have been removed.
Its another dumbing down, saying drive a bit slower and you'll be safe rather than driving to the conditions, and engineering the road to make it as safe as possible.
The only place I can see it making sense is at low traffic volume, residential junctions - but then the US 4-way stop sign does that even better, because the junctions are obviously marked.
It might slow drivers down on safer stretches of road, but it may also lead to drivers going *faster than they would have* through hazardous stretches, because the hazard warnings have been removed.
Its another dumbing down, saying drive a bit slower and you'll be safe rather than driving to the conditions, and engineering the road to make it as safe as possible.
The only place I can see it making sense is at low traffic volume, residential junctions - but then the US 4-way stop sign does that even better, because the junctions are obviously marked.
s2ooz said:
dickieandjulie said: This is a ridiculous idea, in poor weather we all us the line to guide us, in good weather it helps us judge gap sizes if vehicles are parked and there are oncoming vehicles AND drunk drivers use them to try and remain vaguely straight and hopefully avoid killing the rest of us!
thats exactly the point! your not not meant to drive in bad weather based on how far the reflection from paint is visible! try learning the width of your car, and planning ahead, not just following lines.
Im all for the removal on the right sort of roads. for those outside london, driving on B roads with no markings is a common occurence already. drivers are slower, more cautious, and slow. Ive been in france too, where some islands are unmarked, its a very safe place to be.
yes it wouldnt work on heavy routes I agree there.
I hate constant road signs telling me this and that, theres now that many, its a distraction not a useful warning. eg near me, new traffic lights are labelled with "new road layout" "traffic light warning", "speed reduction", "high up traffic light warning", "slow" and "ques likely.", these are BOTH sides of the road, so thats 10 signs!!!
how can jeremy C in top gear complain one minute about cameras trying to slow you down, then switch tack and complain about removing signs that lull drivers into speeding like lines in paint? there both there for similar reasons; to control drivers with warnings/fines for failing to drive accordingly.
its all back down to the common arguement, better driving skills, and removal from reliance on crap like signs to tell you whats coming - simple if you dont know whats round the corner, dont go round it so bloody fast!!
I do not agree with you, i think the white lines povide usful guidence.
i live in the county and use country lanes, whitch thankfully have white lines, thees i use to my advantage, both for driving like a lunatic, and for driving safly during por visabilaty condintion , like fog.
my grandad, has gone in to a ditch on country roads due to no whitr lines. as was said b4 the cat's eye may as well be removed.. its stupid..
bean said:my grandad, has gone in to a ditch on country roads due to no whitr lines. as was said b4 the cat's eye may as well be removed.. its stupid..
Have to disagree with you here, your Grandad did not go into the ditch because there were no white lines, he was driving, not the white lines. He went into the ditch because he was not paying enough attention to the road and its hazards.
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