993 C2S on track - my thoughts
Discussion
Took my 993 C2S to Bedford Autodrome yesterday. First time on track in the 993 (although
I've done loads of trackdays before in various cars at various tracks).
Car is bog standard - here are my thoughts:
Brakes: Absolutely astonishing! There's a few very high speed straights at Bedford including a 1km back straight (regularly getting 140mph here!) and the way the car is able to scrub speed on the brakes is amazing. Not a hint of fade all day (I did a full cool down lap after every session). ABS did cut in a few times but only when I left the braking a bit late and stabbed at them in panic. Car does get a bit "lively" when braking very hard - you can feel the back moving around and a few times it needed a whiff of steering lock to keep it in a straight line. They did tend to squeal a bit after 4 or 5 laps too.
Handling: I have to admit I was a very cautious at first - read too many stories about the
old 911s having a tendency to swap ends at the limit. Yes, you can definitely feel the weight at the rear but not once did it threaten to swap ends. As long as you're smooth with the major controls the car is absolutely planted. You can lift off mid corner as long as you don't lift off suddenly and completely. When you do the car simply tightens it's line. You can even brake mid corner - again as long as you don't do it suddenly and violently the car just tightens it's line. You can trail the brakes up to the apex if you
want but you need to be ready with the opposite lock as the back can get a bit "frisky" when you do this. But the real revelation is how agressive you can be with the power mid corner. I tended to find myself squaring off the corners slightly and getting hard on the gas as early as possible. You can feel the weight transfer to the rear and the tyres just dig in and grip. Every lap I was able to get on the power earlier and harder and not once did the rear tyres threaten to let go. There are a few low speed, 2nd gear hairpins at Bedford and I managed to get the car pretty sideways exiting these. Again there was no drama or fuss and the steering lets you know exactly how much opposite lock is required and when to wind it off.
Power: The way the 993 produces it's power makes it very easy to drive on track. The good torque allows you to choose a higher gear and just use the midrange to drag you through the corner, hopefully timing it just right to hit 5k rpm as you straighten the wheel and give you maximum power down the straights.
Gearbox: Had a few missed gears - mainly when changing down to second, even when using heel and toe. I seemed to keep pushing the gearstick too far left as if I was going for reverse and this "locks out" second gear. Got the hang of it by the end of the day but the gearchange is a bit long very fast shifts, especially when changing down.
Noise: Car has the Motorsound pack and read 102 DB at the static test (SPL meter at 0.5m from tailpipe, 4.5k revs). The limit for the day was 101 DB so I got a red sticker which means they keep an eye on you for the rest of the day. They also have SPL meters on the track in various places but I know where they are and simply short-shifted as I passed
them.
Tyres: I have the Continental SportContact2 N2 all round. They stood up to the punishment very well all day. They had 1000 miles on them before the day and still have 7mm left on the fronts and 6mm at the rear. They felt very progressive all day, although they did seem to overheat after 5 or 6 laps (but it's a long lap ~4 miles). When they overheated they tended to move around a lot more under braking and cornering and I noticed a bit more understeer on turn in.
General: Oil temperature went as high as halfway up the temperature gauge, but generally stayed in the bottom third all day, and dropped very quickly on the cool down lap (steady 40-60mph). Got approx 14 mpg throughout the day which is better than I expected. I have the turbo Sports Seats but I felt they could have been a bit more supportive under very hard cornering - they feel perfect on the road though.
In short I have never had as much fun on track. It definitely wasn't the fastest thing there but it behaved so well and so predictably I could gradually push it harder and harder all day. What more can you ask for?
The stories about the older model 911s being a bit of a handful on the limit seem totally unjustified to me. As long as you follow the basic rules (i.e. smooth driver inputs, no sudden or violent inputs to the steering, brakes or throttle) it is completely planted. And even when you make a mistake and need to change direction or slow down suddenly the steering gives you all the info you need to prevent or catch the resulting slide.
Put simply 993s are good. Damn good. But then you already knew that.
Si
P.S. Apologies for the huge post!
>> Edited by sbrewster on Sunday 6th November 11:26
I've done loads of trackdays before in various cars at various tracks).
Car is bog standard - here are my thoughts:
Brakes: Absolutely astonishing! There's a few very high speed straights at Bedford including a 1km back straight (regularly getting 140mph here!) and the way the car is able to scrub speed on the brakes is amazing. Not a hint of fade all day (I did a full cool down lap after every session). ABS did cut in a few times but only when I left the braking a bit late and stabbed at them in panic. Car does get a bit "lively" when braking very hard - you can feel the back moving around and a few times it needed a whiff of steering lock to keep it in a straight line. They did tend to squeal a bit after 4 or 5 laps too.
Handling: I have to admit I was a very cautious at first - read too many stories about the
old 911s having a tendency to swap ends at the limit. Yes, you can definitely feel the weight at the rear but not once did it threaten to swap ends. As long as you're smooth with the major controls the car is absolutely planted. You can lift off mid corner as long as you don't lift off suddenly and completely. When you do the car simply tightens it's line. You can even brake mid corner - again as long as you don't do it suddenly and violently the car just tightens it's line. You can trail the brakes up to the apex if you
want but you need to be ready with the opposite lock as the back can get a bit "frisky" when you do this. But the real revelation is how agressive you can be with the power mid corner. I tended to find myself squaring off the corners slightly and getting hard on the gas as early as possible. You can feel the weight transfer to the rear and the tyres just dig in and grip. Every lap I was able to get on the power earlier and harder and not once did the rear tyres threaten to let go. There are a few low speed, 2nd gear hairpins at Bedford and I managed to get the car pretty sideways exiting these. Again there was no drama or fuss and the steering lets you know exactly how much opposite lock is required and when to wind it off.
Power: The way the 993 produces it's power makes it very easy to drive on track. The good torque allows you to choose a higher gear and just use the midrange to drag you through the corner, hopefully timing it just right to hit 5k rpm as you straighten the wheel and give you maximum power down the straights.
Gearbox: Had a few missed gears - mainly when changing down to second, even when using heel and toe. I seemed to keep pushing the gearstick too far left as if I was going for reverse and this "locks out" second gear. Got the hang of it by the end of the day but the gearchange is a bit long very fast shifts, especially when changing down.
Noise: Car has the Motorsound pack and read 102 DB at the static test (SPL meter at 0.5m from tailpipe, 4.5k revs). The limit for the day was 101 DB so I got a red sticker which means they keep an eye on you for the rest of the day. They also have SPL meters on the track in various places but I know where they are and simply short-shifted as I passed
them.
Tyres: I have the Continental SportContact2 N2 all round. They stood up to the punishment very well all day. They had 1000 miles on them before the day and still have 7mm left on the fronts and 6mm at the rear. They felt very progressive all day, although they did seem to overheat after 5 or 6 laps (but it's a long lap ~4 miles). When they overheated they tended to move around a lot more under braking and cornering and I noticed a bit more understeer on turn in.
General: Oil temperature went as high as halfway up the temperature gauge, but generally stayed in the bottom third all day, and dropped very quickly on the cool down lap (steady 40-60mph). Got approx 14 mpg throughout the day which is better than I expected. I have the turbo Sports Seats but I felt they could have been a bit more supportive under very hard cornering - they feel perfect on the road though.
In short I have never had as much fun on track. It definitely wasn't the fastest thing there but it behaved so well and so predictably I could gradually push it harder and harder all day. What more can you ask for?
The stories about the older model 911s being a bit of a handful on the limit seem totally unjustified to me. As long as you follow the basic rules (i.e. smooth driver inputs, no sudden or violent inputs to the steering, brakes or throttle) it is completely planted. And even when you make a mistake and need to change direction or slow down suddenly the steering gives you all the info you need to prevent or catch the resulting slide.
Put simply 993s are good. Damn good. But then you already knew that.
Si
P.S. Apologies for the huge post!
>> Edited by sbrewster on Sunday 6th November 11:26
Great post that Simon, and very informative for me as I'd like to track my car at some point in the future. As you rightly say it's the way the car performs that makes it so satisfying, rather than simply being the fastest car on the track. Even on the road the car feels so good it makes every journey a pleasure.
From my limited knowledge of 911s it seems every new model tames the rear end progressively more and more. I think the 993 rear suspension benefited from a new multi link set up which probably contributes to the security you've felt in the car on the track.
Out of interest is your car running standard and original suspension? Does your car have M033 or M030 suspension? Still on the OE Monroes or have you upgraded?
From my limited knowledge of 911s it seems every new model tames the rear end progressively more and more. I think the 993 rear suspension benefited from a new multi link set up which probably contributes to the security you've felt in the car on the track.
Out of interest is your car running standard and original suspension? Does your car have M033 or M030 suspension? Still on the OE Monroes or have you upgraded?
993_C2S said:
Out of interest is your car running standard and original suspension? Does your car have M033 or M030 suspension? Still on the OE Monroes or have you upgraded?
Still on original Monroes at 47k miles so they're probably shagged.
Not sure if it's M030 or M033, but I believe it will be whatever is standard on the Carrera S - ie. 10mm lower but not harder.
Very good report.
A small afterthought on the downshifting.
Try to doubleclutch when downshifting under high speed.
I am aware of the difficulty of braking and downshifting/doubleclutching at the same time.
But is does ease transaxel gearbox downshifting.
The Lotus espirit's citroen box have the same problems as the porsche, although after the G50 box things have gotten better.
A small afterthought on the downshifting.
Try to doubleclutch when downshifting under high speed.
I am aware of the difficulty of braking and downshifting/doubleclutching at the same time.
But is does ease transaxel gearbox downshifting.
The Lotus espirit's citroen box have the same problems as the porsche, although after the G50 box things have gotten better.
sbrewster said:
Out of interest is your car running standard and original suspension? Does your car have M033 or M030 suspension? Still on the OE Monroes or have you upgraded?
Still on original Monroes at 47k miles so they're probably shagged.
Not sure if it's M030 or M033, but I believe it will be whatever is standard on the Carrera S - ie. 10mm lower but not harder.
Still on originals. Yikes. If you think it's good now, change the shocks and springs and it'll be even better.
sbrewster said:
Out of interest is your car running standard and original suspension? Does your car have M033 or M030 suspension? Still on the OE Monroes or have you upgraded?
Still on original Monroes at 47k miles so they're probably shagged.
Not sure if it's M030 or M033, but I believe it will be whatever is standard on the Carrera S - ie. 10mm lower but not harder.
Standard S models carry M033 - you might be lucky and have Boge, if they are Monroes they are definitely shagged - if Bedford was bumpy your story might be different ...
cheers, Maurice
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