Differences between 964 and 993
Discussion
Hello Porsche owners,
I have my heart set on fulfilling my dream and owning my first 911. Should I get a pukka 964 or find the extra for an early 993 which would have a high mileage. I really want RHD and want good condition with no reliability problems. Are the 993s more reliable? Is there a huge difference in performance? Does anyone own the cabriolets? Are there any issues with the cabriolets? Any suggestions on where to buy? What do you think of the stock at 911virgin.com? Do they come with a warranty which is worth having or should i buy privately?
Should I find the extra for the 993 or get a 964 in great condition with the spec I like.
Thanks in advance.
J
I have my heart set on fulfilling my dream and owning my first 911. Should I get a pukka 964 or find the extra for an early 993 which would have a high mileage. I really want RHD and want good condition with no reliability problems. Are the 993s more reliable? Is there a huge difference in performance? Does anyone own the cabriolets? Are there any issues with the cabriolets? Any suggestions on where to buy? What do you think of the stock at 911virgin.com? Do they come with a warranty which is worth having or should i buy privately?
Should I find the extra for the 993 or get a 964 in great condition with the spec I like.
Thanks in advance.
J
yep 993 would be very nice - yours does look really good - just worried that my budget wouldn't get me a good one, what do you think of the stock at www.911virgin.com ? Or are there other specialists about with a good reputation? How much should I be looking to spend for an early RHD 993 in good condition without huge mileage? How much are running costs?
cheers
J
cheers
J
Mention of Prestige & Performance (911 virgin) seems to generate mixed reactions on here. I bought my car there and had a good experience, but there seems to be an opinion the guy there (Henry) can be a bit arrogant. My view is so what, if the cars are honest and the prices are right, and I've not heard anyone say otherwise, who cares if the guy you buy it from is a bit lacking in the personality department.
With regard to 964 vs 993, the 993 is generally held to be more reliable, cheaper to service etc, but there are others on here far better qualified to comment.
Good luck whatever route you go.
Chris
With regard to 964 vs 993, the 993 is generally held to be more reliable, cheaper to service etc, but there are others on here far better qualified to comment.
Good luck whatever route you go.
Chris
jambo99 said:what do you think of the stock at www.911virgin.com ? Or are there other specialists about with a good reputation?
I can't comment about that particular place, although I seem to recall others here were less than enthusiastic about them a few months ago when I was looking. Perhaps they will comment.
Autofarm at www.autofarm.co.uk seem to be well regarded by others here, although I haven't had any dealings with them personally. I might use them for service work though.
I bought mine from Paragon at www.paragon.gb.com and I would certainly recommend them to others. They generally seem to have some nice examples, and I would buy from them again.
Sure, Paragon's fine if you don't mind paying OPC prices just because they've copied the style of Porsche AG's web site.
Buy it from anywhere that's got a goodun, just get an OPC inspection.
Podie, is that a mid-life crisis joke ? I'm struggling to understand. I am a bit thick, hailing from the Fatherland.
Buy it from anywhere that's got a goodun, just get an OPC inspection.
Podie, is that a mid-life crisis joke ? I'm struggling to understand. I am a bit thick, hailing from the Fatherland.
Paragon does seem a bit pricey. 911virgin seems to have some good deals and are quite local to me. Do they come with warranties that are worthwhile? How much is an OPC inspection?
On paper there seems little performance advantage in the 993 over the 964. Is there? I have driven a 993 cab, 996 cab and 996 Turbo. None were mine unfortunately, but never tried the 964.
Thanks for the advice.
J
On paper there seems little performance advantage in the 993 over the 964. Is there? I have driven a 993 cab, 996 cab and 996 Turbo. None were mine unfortunately, but never tried the 964.
Thanks for the advice.
J
Jambo, back to your original question.
OPC inspection costs about £200. It will save you more than this in bargaining power. If the seller objects, walk away.
As I understand it, the 993 is basically a 964 in a much prettier body, with all the little niggles ironed out, i.e. no need for a top end rebuild after 80,000 miles (although I think there's plently of 964's that don't need this either). The handling was improved on a 993 also.
However, I've only ever owned a 993 and a 996 so perhaps someone whose owned a 964 and 993 can tell you more. Scottster, where are you ?
OPC inspection costs about £200. It will save you more than this in bargaining power. If the seller objects, walk away.
As I understand it, the 993 is basically a 964 in a much prettier body, with all the little niggles ironed out, i.e. no need for a top end rebuild after 80,000 miles (although I think there's plently of 964's that don't need this either). The handling was improved on a 993 also.
However, I've only ever owned a 993 and a 996 so perhaps someone whose owned a 964 and 993 can tell you more. Scottster, where are you ?
Henry at 911virgin is a bit of a sod, but not as bad as his brother, Tom. Henry's missus is quite courteous and friendly though. He has lost out on countless sales simply by being a rude and ignorant git, and now I refuse to even entertain a peek there.
The main benefit of 911 virgin is that his cars are cheap (generally speaking).
The main disbenefit is that you get what you pay for. ie cheap cars for cheap money. I have seen some real dogs there amongst the nicer stuff, and Henry has been cagey when confronted about some 'details' about his stock.
However, Henry is not a greedy boy, even if (IMHO) he can be a slightly dodgy one. He makes money on stock turnover, not huge margins. Despite my personal tastes, every market needs a 'pile it high, sell it cheap' merchant like Henry.
Like I wouldn't recommend you buy a fine Claret from Asda, I wouldn't recommend a connoisseur with a large budget spend his Porsche pennies with Henry. I would rather pay more for an example from a source that (IMHO) appears more discriminating, scrupulous and trustworthy.
Interestingly, Scottster sold his 993 C2 after it was less fun than his 964 C2. I drove both, and the 993 is the better car but not the more exciting one, necessarily.
After having sampled the delights of Derestrictor's 490bhp 993 Turbo 4 (cheers Simon, will catch up soon), I would also say that a 964RS or 993RS are a different proposition to even tuned Turbos. Simon's car was much more refined and less race tuned in character, despite the phenomenal pace. If you love sports cars, love Porsches and are driven by raw character, you *must* consider a 964RS or 993RS. You may get a RHD 964RS for your budget, but I wouldn't bother worrying about LHD personally as I have owned and driven both types of car and never found LHD a problem.
Oh, and don't get a touring spec car, as they chucked the bits back in
Rgds
Domster
The main benefit of 911 virgin is that his cars are cheap (generally speaking).
The main disbenefit is that you get what you pay for. ie cheap cars for cheap money. I have seen some real dogs there amongst the nicer stuff, and Henry has been cagey when confronted about some 'details' about his stock.
However, Henry is not a greedy boy, even if (IMHO) he can be a slightly dodgy one. He makes money on stock turnover, not huge margins. Despite my personal tastes, every market needs a 'pile it high, sell it cheap' merchant like Henry.
Like I wouldn't recommend you buy a fine Claret from Asda, I wouldn't recommend a connoisseur with a large budget spend his Porsche pennies with Henry. I would rather pay more for an example from a source that (IMHO) appears more discriminating, scrupulous and trustworthy.
Interestingly, Scottster sold his 993 C2 after it was less fun than his 964 C2. I drove both, and the 993 is the better car but not the more exciting one, necessarily.
After having sampled the delights of Derestrictor's 490bhp 993 Turbo 4 (cheers Simon, will catch up soon), I would also say that a 964RS or 993RS are a different proposition to even tuned Turbos. Simon's car was much more refined and less race tuned in character, despite the phenomenal pace. If you love sports cars, love Porsches and are driven by raw character, you *must* consider a 964RS or 993RS. You may get a RHD 964RS for your budget, but I wouldn't bother worrying about LHD personally as I have owned and driven both types of car and never found LHD a problem.
Oh, and don't get a touring spec car, as they chucked the bits back in
Rgds
Domster
Going from Domsters and countless others perspectives the 964 RS seems to be the most fun for the cash out there. Even if you pay 36k for a rhd example, it's very cheap compared to the opposition - 993RS, GT3 etc at double that for no more fun.
The trouble is I adore the shape of the 993. The TT just looks the dogs doodah's. Even the standard carrera looks so damn cute n sexy. I guess it comes down to whether you prefer drop dead looks & refinement or hard core driving thrills and ibuprofen.
The trouble is I adore the shape of the 993. The TT just looks the dogs doodah's. Even the standard carrera looks so damn cute n sexy. I guess it comes down to whether you prefer drop dead looks & refinement or hard core driving thrills and ibuprofen.
mightydquin yes its a given that you should get an inspection done before buying a used porker (see the story by Mr Earnest Farqwhit in the Porsche section ref what can be the case if you don't) .
However a well respected Porsche specialist would charge around half that figure (even an OPC should be cheaper) and will have seen hundreds of that type of car. The AA is certainly better than nothing, but it may have been the 1st Porsche the guy had ever seen and some of the faults may be very common & known problems & could have have cost a very small amount to put right. If its a specialist car- you realy should seek specialist advice.
However a well respected Porsche specialist would charge around half that figure (even an OPC should be cheaper) and will have seen hundreds of that type of car. The AA is certainly better than nothing, but it may have been the 1st Porsche the guy had ever seen and some of the faults may be very common & known problems & could have have cost a very small amount to put right. If its a specialist car- you realy should seek specialist advice.
Having owned a C2 964 and having driven a couple of 993 examples here are a few useful pointers. The 964 is IMHO the more exciting car to drive but the 993 the more comfortable and quiet. The 964 suffers from a fair bit of tyre noise the 993 is much quieter and therefore less taxing to drive long distance. The 964 engine uses the standard adjustable tappets and therefore requires more time to set up when serviced resulting in a much larger servicing bill. The 993 uses hydraulic tappets which require no adjustment and so a smaller bill. The 993 is also a development of the 964 engine and has most of the problems ironed out. There is practically no doubt that the 993 is the better car in every respect bar one personal driving preference you may find you prefer the way the 964 drives to the 993 or the way it looks. £30k for instance gives you a decent RHD 993 or a very good low miles 964 and about £10k change for a motec conversion??????????
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