RE: Speed camera policy in question
Tuesday 8th November 2005
Cameras come under scrutinyThe emphasis of road policing's reliance on speed cameras is to come under scrutiny, said the new chief constable in charge of road policing.
Speed camera policy in question
Trafpol police chief calls for driver re-tests
Cameras come under scrutiny
Instead, said Meredydd Hughes on the first day in his job, a wider range of measures should be used. These could include more warning signs, better road engineering, and drivers being re-tested at regular intervals, said the new man -- who has twice been caught by speed cameras himself. While road conditions had altered since he had taken his test 30 years ago, neither he nor any other driver had been asked to re-prove his competence.
That sounds like the first piece of good sense to emerge from that office for some considerable time, for which Chief Constable Hughes is to be applauded.
Discussion
It's not April 1, is it??? A senior policeman? Speaking sense? I can only assume the thought police missed him, and he'll soon be transferred to somewhere he can't make policy.
Until then...go for it!!!
Ah...there had to be a flaw somewhere. From bbc website. This bloke is from "Shared Space" - European road safedy and environment scheme:-
What a fantastic idea...lets put potentially fatal hazards along the sides of roads!!! Then when someone hits some black ice, or has a blowout, or has to swerve violently, they won't just mount the verge/kerb and roll to a halt, they'll slam into a bloody great lump of wood!!!
Is there a farm somewhere that breeds idiots purely for jobs in useless quangos?!?
>> Edited by havoc on Tuesday 8th November 12:24
Until then...go for it!!!
Ah...there had to be a flaw somewhere. From bbc website. This bloke is from "Shared Space" - European road safedy and environment scheme:-
Ben Hamilton-Baillie of the SS said:
there are many "visual and psychological techniques" that would change driver behaviour.
Making roads look narrower by colouring their edges or planting trees on the pavement increases a driver's sense of danger, making them more conscious of oncoming traffic, he added.
What a fantastic idea...lets put potentially fatal hazards along the sides of roads!!! Then when someone hits some black ice, or has a blowout, or has to swerve violently, they won't just mount the verge/kerb and roll to a halt, they'll slam into a bloody great lump of wood!!!
Is there a farm somewhere that breeds idiots purely for jobs in useless quangos?!?
>> Edited by havoc on Tuesday 8th November 12:24
Re-testing is an excellent idea.
However, I think I would call it 're-validation' and do it at age 50, then at 60, then every 5 years after that. It need not be the full driving test, but a confirmation that the driver can cope with modern traffic, drive at speeds which enable safe progress to be made and be capable of following the requirements of the C.O.A.S.T. principles of driving. Failure need not mean disqualification, rather a requirement to take some training in order to reach the required validation standards within a set time and only after failure to achieve the requirement after that should the restriction be made. The test should include a compulsory eyesight test and distance perception test.
Lest someone should accuse me of being ageist, let me tell you that I'm 65 in 3 weeks time and would welcome a re-validation of my competence (or lack of it!). Could I take the test in one of my current rally cars and would a handbrake turn be required in order to pass?
However, I think I would call it 're-validation' and do it at age 50, then at 60, then every 5 years after that. It need not be the full driving test, but a confirmation that the driver can cope with modern traffic, drive at speeds which enable safe progress to be made and be capable of following the requirements of the C.O.A.S.T. principles of driving. Failure need not mean disqualification, rather a requirement to take some training in order to reach the required validation standards within a set time and only after failure to achieve the requirement after that should the restriction be made. The test should include a compulsory eyesight test and distance perception test.
Lest someone should accuse me of being ageist, let me tell you that I'm 65 in 3 weeks time and would welcome a re-validation of my competence (or lack of it!). Could I take the test in one of my current rally cars and would a handbrake turn be required in order to pass?
havoc said:
What a fantastic idea...lets put potentially fatal hazards along the sides of roads!!! Then when someone hits some black ice, or has a blowout, or has to swerve violently, they won't just mount the verge/kerb and roll to a halt, they'll slam into a bloody great lump of wood!!!
If you saw the news last night the simulator driven by the reporter entered a virtual village street where the road had been narrowed by building piers out from the kerb upon which virtual trees had been planted.
Comment from reporter, "it's making me go slower therefore safer" Of course no other traffic on the virtual road.
Give me strength, no mention that trees as pointed out above are some of the most lethal roadside furniture.
No mention that the road layout puts vehicles in even more conflict by pushing them nearer together.
Muppets! You just couldn't make it up.
Anyway I though Hughes was in favour of more cameras including covert versions and th ones in road studs. Not a U turn surely?
Flat in Fifth said:
Give me strength, no mention that trees as pointed out above are some of the most lethal roadside furniture.
No mention that the road layout puts vehicles in even more conflict by pushing them nearer together.
Muppets! You just couldn't make it up.
Ask Marc Bolan if it's a good idea to have trees close to the road. Anything that puts vehicles on a collision course is a bad idea. I hope they do a study on pinch point KSI stats, as they are bloody lethal. I predict they will kill more people than they save
Leaves too, too many leaves are bad. Then tree's and bushes etc also cast shadows in winter, meaning lots of shaded areas covered in ice, which is also bad.
Roads should be wide, clear, and open at the sides. As always, putting furniture around slows people down as their is an icreased risk, but the problem are not the usual motorists who react to the environment, the whole problem around speed is those that just drive like loonies, and they will still drive like loonies with tree's there.
An initiative that can effect 100% of the population, to try and curb the actions of 1% of the population, while not actually stopping the actions of that 1%.
Result, misery for everyone for no real gain. Labour party. Misery for all!
Dave
Roads should be wide, clear, and open at the sides. As always, putting furniture around slows people down as their is an icreased risk, but the problem are not the usual motorists who react to the environment, the whole problem around speed is those that just drive like loonies, and they will still drive like loonies with tree's there.
An initiative that can effect 100% of the population, to try and curb the actions of 1% of the population, while not actually stopping the actions of that 1%.
Result, misery for everyone for no real gain. Labour party. Misery for all!
Dave
Trees! I like trees, they are great. I like playing in trees, like hide and seek and things. I used to play hide and seek with my friend billy until he was killed by a car cos he ran out on to the road from behind a tree. The driver said he couldnt see billy. I cried a lot
by
John
Aged 9
by
John
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NormanD said:
One good comment he made 'better road engineering'
Although he might meen something different to me.
It will probably mean something different to most drivers.
If the current trend is anything to go by, i.e. creating more danger and congestion with pinch points, kerb-outs, ghost islands and so on, I think I know what we would be in for.
As above..."trust no one".
havoc said:
there are many "visual and psychological techniques" that would change driver behaviour.
Making roads look narrower by colouring their edges or planting trees on the pavement increases a driver's sense of danger, making them more conscious of oncoming traffic, he added.
I believe the French have a name for roads with tree's on either side, l'arbour des mort (I'm sure someone can/will correct my grammar/spelling) ;-) - think it literally translates as trees of death - seem to recall reading somewhere, in connection with the death of a famous French philosopher in a Citroen???? They now don't do it, and are pulling up the exsisting ones....
Road Engineering can work very well. I know some clever people who work in road engineering.
Unfortunatly, the government has spent all it's cash on speed cameras so there's only £3.75 per county for road improvements, including road engineering and repairs to damaged road surfaces. This is why the new traffic lights at your local junction will likely stay on red irrespective of whether any cars are coming the other way. The detectors cost more money.
This of course leads to more traffic conjestion which leads to more global warming which leads to hurricanes. All because of bloody speed cameras.
Ian A.
Unfortunatly, the government has spent all it's cash on speed cameras so there's only £3.75 per county for road improvements, including road engineering and repairs to damaged road surfaces. This is why the new traffic lights at your local junction will likely stay on red irrespective of whether any cars are coming the other way. The detectors cost more money.
This of course leads to more traffic conjestion which leads to more global warming which leads to hurricanes. All because of bloody speed cameras.
Ian A.
NormanD said:
One good comment he made 'better road engineering'
Well Officer Hughes, you stick to policing and I'll stick to engineering. And you can tell me where the money is coming from to reconstruct the road network.
havoc said:
What a fantastic idea...lets put potentially fatal hazards along the sides of roads!!! Then when someone hits some black ice, or has a blowout, or has to swerve violently...
It's called Layout Constraint. A drivers perception of the "safe" speed for a road is dependant on how narrow the carriageway is, how far you can see, how curved it is, etc. That's why people don't do a constant 60mph along every country lane in the country.
The intention is that you won't be going as quickly, so you're less likely to have to swerve violently, and as you're going slower, you'll not reach the trees. That said, I don't think the guy on the BBC website knows what he's talking about, because placing items in the verge (pavement is a hardened verge) is specifically prohibited, and Layout Constrant isn't effective on urban roads, because people are only supposed to be doing 30 anyway.
Mr Whippy said:
Result, misery for everyone for no real gain. Labour party. Misery for all!
I'm not sure what the Labour Party has to do with the views of a Police Chief Constable, except perhaps as a scape goat in the eyes of Tories sick from eight years of "opposition".
When we did our wee tour of the Republic of Ireland, we were impressed with the way they had approached accident blackspots.
You would get a sign, of a black dot, which is pretty hard to miss... But after that the junction or corner had been landscaped so that visibility was very clear, there were no trees or anything nearby, and the road pavement was made of that anti-skid tarmac.
No sign of any speed cameras!...
You would get a sign, of a black dot, which is pretty hard to miss... But after that the junction or corner had been landscaped so that visibility was very clear, there were no trees or anything nearby, and the road pavement was made of that anti-skid tarmac.
No sign of any speed cameras!...
Andrew D said:
[quote=NormanD]That said, I don't think the guy on the BBC website knows what he's talking about, because placing items in the verge (pavement is a hardened verge) is specifically prohibited, and Layout Constrant isn't effective on urban roads, because people are only supposed to be doing 30 anyway.
Well all I can add is that the simulator shown was clearly showing a 30 limit, including the signs. The virtual road had pinch points directly opposite on both sides, not slightly offset longitudinally. On each a number of trees were shown.
Accepted that a virtual landscape is different from what might be done in reality, but they were doing research on the effects of such changes on driver behaviour. So whatever the rules are now regarding what is / is not allowed if they decide the powers that be will change the rules.
Also re speed bumps to answer whoever (sorry) above. They specifically mentioned speed bumps in connection with traffic calming and iirc stated that these had not been that much of a success, or words to that effect. I guess in BBC speak not much of a success equates to a total and utter screw up.
FiF
Re-testing would be a massive bonus to all road-users. I have to assume that a huge number of drivers fluked their way through (what is currently a pretty hit & miss) driving tests. The chances of a truly awful driver doing that twice is massively reduced, which can only be good - for congestion, RTAs, insurance costs etc etc.
If I had my way I'd introduce a second test after 12 months (let's be honest, your driving changes most in the first year) and then every 5-10 years after that. If people know that they are in danger of losing their license you'd soon see an improvement in standards.
Gruffy
If I had my way I'd introduce a second test after 12 months (let's be honest, your driving changes most in the first year) and then every 5-10 years after that. If people know that they are in danger of losing their license you'd soon see an improvement in standards.
Gruffy
Just my opinions, no stats to back it up –>
I used to live just north of Hanover in Germany. Trees lined most country roads, the roads were well surfaced and pretty straight. I lost count of how many people used to get killed when they veered slightly off the road and were instantly brought to a complete halt by a 40 year old birch. I couldn’t believe the logic of using trees to line a road.
Journalists used to blame speed, funnily enough saying that the trees near the road caused people to speed up because they had a calming, hypnotic action as you drove along. I must say I never noticed that myself, I just noticed the scarred bark on almost every tree along every road.
As I left the country there were reports that the TUV people were researching a new way to line the roads, using soft vegetation, that slows you gradually - it will never catch on!
I used to live just north of Hanover in Germany. Trees lined most country roads, the roads were well surfaced and pretty straight. I lost count of how many people used to get killed when they veered slightly off the road and were instantly brought to a complete halt by a 40 year old birch. I couldn’t believe the logic of using trees to line a road.
Journalists used to blame speed, funnily enough saying that the trees near the road caused people to speed up because they had a calming, hypnotic action as you drove along. I must say I never noticed that myself, I just noticed the scarred bark on almost every tree along every road.
As I left the country there were reports that the TUV people were researching a new way to line the roads, using soft vegetation, that slows you gradually - it will never catch on!
cjbolter said:
lets be sure who we are talking about here. What good is a "re-test" going to do against caps on back to front, no licence, no tax and no insurance ?? !!!!.
And possibly somebody else's car !!.
CJ.
Absolutely none at all. But it will do a lot for the hordes of drivers out there that think they're quite good when in fact they're borderline dangerous ;-)
Regarding road calming, its safe and effective if the right methods are employed (lets face it, its rare at the moment...). Instead of trees, just use clever road markings to give the optical illusion of a narrower road; instead of speed humps, use 'vibrator grids' - easier on the suspension but you sure as hell know you've gone over one!
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