Puter refusing to switch off
Discussion
Lately by laptop has decided to go through the shutting down process but the power doesn't go off. It's making all the right noises and is quite happy on startup after it misbehaves (no running of scandisk which it has done previously when i've had to force it to shut down) it just seems that the message telling it to switch the power off doesn't seem to be getting through. I've tried shutting down all the programs etc but that doesn't make a difference and the past two days it has shut down properly when I use it first thing but then won't for the rest of the day. I'm using windows xp home edition.
Any suggestions of what's happening would be greatly appreciated.
Any suggestions of what's happening would be greatly appreciated.
Someone will probably come up with further advice, but in my experience this is not at all uncommon.
If you have a power switch that can be used to turn the machine off (as well as on) then you are fortunate. Usually it's press and hold, as someone already mentioned.
I think the problem stems from the non standard nature of early power management functionality in the ISA and PCI system spec.
Most manufacturers have a separate disk with the necassary software (it's not big, just a few lines of code) that takes the message to power off, and passes it to the right place in the particular machine.
Some manufacturers have their own version of the Windows installation disks, with the necassary patches built in.
If you're not running the original operating system that came with the machine, and it's more than a few years old, then I'd say that it par for the course.
On the other hand your laptop may be making a bid to take over the world......
You never know!
If you have a power switch that can be used to turn the machine off (as well as on) then you are fortunate. Usually it's press and hold, as someone already mentioned.
I think the problem stems from the non standard nature of early power management functionality in the ISA and PCI system spec.
Most manufacturers have a separate disk with the necassary software (it's not big, just a few lines of code) that takes the message to power off, and passes it to the right place in the particular machine.
Some manufacturers have their own version of the Windows installation disks, with the necassary patches built in.
If you're not running the original operating system that came with the machine, and it's more than a few years old, then I'd say that it par for the course.
On the other hand your laptop may be making a bid to take over the world......
You never know!
It is the original operating system and poor puter is getting on a little, but it does seem like the message telling it to switch off is causing problems but why does it only work first thing in the morning?! Does anyone know if overheating cause this problem?
Thanks for the help so far
Thanks for the help so far
Well if it's the original operating system, then I'd say that it's much more likely to be a hardware/software fault, as opposed to a design fault.
If it used to work OK and it now doesn't, short of re-installing the OS, it's pretty difficult to say. If it's a hardware fault, then pinning it down will always be a nightmare. The problem is potentially inside one of the monster chipset asics that reside in most laptops.
If it's a hardware fault, it's doubtful that even the manufacturer would bother to repair it. Not cost effective.
Edited to add;
Reinstallation of the OS may fix it, but that has to be weighed against the hassle of that process, unless you can find someone that knows exactly which registry keys are associated with the power management.
If you know that, then you could figure out which DLL's are involved in the shutdown process, and run a checksum between those on you HDD and installation disk.
Further edited to add;
When the machine is switched off without going through the shutdown process, the disk can be "in write" when this happens. If it is, and you have a half saved file, then it will be corrupted. That's what scandisk does. It does it's best to figure out whats been damaged, and fix it.
I don't think scan disk does anything much more than check the file allocation tables. It doesn't check inside the files themselves.
Obviously the most vulnerable thing during shutdown is the shutdown code itsself. If you switch off at just the wrong moment, you guessed what gets it!
>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 10th November 16:58
If it used to work OK and it now doesn't, short of re-installing the OS, it's pretty difficult to say. If it's a hardware fault, then pinning it down will always be a nightmare. The problem is potentially inside one of the monster chipset asics that reside in most laptops.
If it's a hardware fault, it's doubtful that even the manufacturer would bother to repair it. Not cost effective.
Edited to add;
Reinstallation of the OS may fix it, but that has to be weighed against the hassle of that process, unless you can find someone that knows exactly which registry keys are associated with the power management.
If you know that, then you could figure out which DLL's are involved in the shutdown process, and run a checksum between those on you HDD and installation disk.
Further edited to add;
When the machine is switched off without going through the shutdown process, the disk can be "in write" when this happens. If it is, and you have a half saved file, then it will be corrupted. That's what scandisk does. It does it's best to figure out whats been damaged, and fix it.
I don't think scan disk does anything much more than check the file allocation tables. It doesn't check inside the files themselves.
Obviously the most vulnerable thing during shutdown is the shutdown code itsself. If you switch off at just the wrong moment, you guessed what gets it!
>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 10th November 16:58
). If you leave it for about 3 minutes, it will eventually switch off.Forgot to mention this problem started intermittently 2 years ago but hardly used the computer last year so it's only now it's really become a problem and it seems to be getting worse.
Currently running a virus scan (AVG free version, updated daily, had the professional version but because I hadn't been online for over a year it wouldn't update!), nothing come up yet however it lists shell32.dll twice, the first time it gives the result as ok, the second time as changed, is this anything to do with it?
Currently running a virus scan (AVG free version, updated daily, had the professional version but because I hadn't been online for over a year it wouldn't update!), nothing come up yet however it lists shell32.dll twice, the first time it gives the result as ok, the second time as changed, is this anything to do with it?
You may have two copies of shell32. It all depends on where they are. The one in windowssystem32 is the active one. The others could be exmples of previous updates, rollback and stuff. It's basically the innards of windows explorer.... All of the high level gui operations, extract icon, and such.
It might be an attempt at a trojan of some kind. Have a look at the version information. See if you can work out if you're using the most recent one, or if the most recent one is the one that the virus checker is complaining about. If the virus checker hasn't been updated recently, it may not know about recent XP automatic updates.
I've always found that the diagnostic/fix software is a bit hopeless myself. You never really know if what it did is better or not.
Certainly re-installation is cheaper, but it does take time.
edited to add;
If you want a text list of the names of the functions in shell32, I can mail them to you. It's a bit too big to post here, some 350 functions. I did have a quick look, and there didn't seem to be any that looked like they were related to power management. On the other hand about 75 were unnamed, so you never know.
HTH
>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 10th November 20:06
It might be an attempt at a trojan of some kind. Have a look at the version information. See if you can work out if you're using the most recent one, or if the most recent one is the one that the virus checker is complaining about. If the virus checker hasn't been updated recently, it may not know about recent XP automatic updates.
I've always found that the diagnostic/fix software is a bit hopeless myself. You never really know if what it did is better or not.
Certainly re-installation is cheaper, but it does take time.
edited to add;
If you want a text list of the names of the functions in shell32, I can mail them to you. It's a bit too big to post here, some 350 functions. I did have a quick look, and there didn't seem to be any that looked like they were related to power management. On the other hand about 75 were unnamed, so you never know.
HTH
>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 10th November 20:06
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