Traffic Cops miss body !
Discussion
Traffic Cops called out after reports of a motorbike laying on the dual carriageway with its engine running clear the bike away but fail to find the rider :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2488353.stm
On the way to work this morning on the A322 between Bagshot and Bracknell there was a bike lying on its side on the grass verge
I was thinking that it was strange as I thought the police would remove a bike straight away from the scene of an accident.
A van had pulled onto the verge so I thought if there was someone in the ditch they would sort it
more likley thery where going to nick the bike !!
Should of called the police just in case the rider was lying the ditch.
but then again they would have probably missed him
I was thinking that it was strange as I thought the police would remove a bike straight away from the scene of an accident.
A van had pulled onto the verge so I thought if there was someone in the ditch they would sort it
more likley thery where going to nick the bike !!
Should of called the police just in case the rider was lying the ditch.
but then again they would have probably missed him
Traffic Cops called out after reports of a motorbike laying on the dual carriageway with its engine running clear the bike away but fail to find the rider :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2488353.stm
No point looking for him - he wasn't speeding at the time...
That is flucking disgusting, there must have been obvious damage to the bike that would have indicated an accident, to fail to find the rider is in my opinion criminally negligent and the lazy incompetant half wits should be hung out to dry. Just picture how that poor bastards next of kin feel ?
OTOH, isn't this the other side of the coin that madcop always talks about when we complain that they shut roads for too long after an accident.
I'm sure if they had shut the road for an hour or 2 they would have found him.... Maybe they thought that he had done a runner after the accident.
Not trying to start an argument here, just saying it mightn't be as black & white as it seems...
I'm sure if they had shut the road for an hour or 2 they would have found him.... Maybe they thought that he had done a runner after the accident.
Not trying to start an argument here, just saying it mightn't be as black & white as it seems...
Before you condemn them outright, you have to know the full Circumstances.
I never intended to let on what my roll is now, but I have to tell you that I attended the scene of the M25 coach crash on Sunday morning. I attended 7 hours after it had happened to look for two missing people that were on the passenger list and were unaccounted for. It was thought that the coach may have been on top of them. When it was lifted it was apparent they were not there. I spent 1 1/2 hours searching undergrowth and surrounding fields and woods half a mile each side of the crash in order to find them with my Police dog.
I did not locate them, as they were not there. There was a mistake by the hospital booking in procedure that missed them.
Not surprising with 5 dead, 38 injured, and 3 hospitals involved. Still I don't suppose anyone on here will criticise the hospital will they, 'disgusting', think what the relatives would have to endure!
Thats life, sh1t happens!
Mistakes are made. Everybody does it, the Police more than many but not really surprising in some incidents. I attended a car crash two years ago when the local guys called me, as the driver had decamped (so they had been told by a witness). I got my dog out, attempted to find a scent track away from he car to locate him. He would not cast away from the vehicle, It was dark at the time. He kept going back to the front end. I shone my torch at the front to see the top of a bald head underneath the number plate. The car had rolled, thrown him out and landed on top of him!
The local guys had been there for over half an hour before I arrived.
The body would have been found by the recovery driver when he came to remove the car.
However why am I surprisd to find posts of condemnation on here. You have of course read it all in the press
>> Edited by madcop on Monday 18th November 17:27
I never intended to let on what my roll is now, but I have to tell you that I attended the scene of the M25 coach crash on Sunday morning. I attended 7 hours after it had happened to look for two missing people that were on the passenger list and were unaccounted for. It was thought that the coach may have been on top of them. When it was lifted it was apparent they were not there. I spent 1 1/2 hours searching undergrowth and surrounding fields and woods half a mile each side of the crash in order to find them with my Police dog.
I did not locate them, as they were not there. There was a mistake by the hospital booking in procedure that missed them.
Not surprising with 5 dead, 38 injured, and 3 hospitals involved. Still I don't suppose anyone on here will criticise the hospital will they, 'disgusting', think what the relatives would have to endure!
Thats life, sh1t happens!
Mistakes are made. Everybody does it, the Police more than many but not really surprising in some incidents. I attended a car crash two years ago when the local guys called me, as the driver had decamped (so they had been told by a witness). I got my dog out, attempted to find a scent track away from he car to locate him. He would not cast away from the vehicle, It was dark at the time. He kept going back to the front end. I shone my torch at the front to see the top of a bald head underneath the number plate. The car had rolled, thrown him out and landed on top of him!
The local guys had been there for over half an hour before I arrived.
The body would have been found by the recovery driver when he came to remove the car.
However why am I surprisd to find posts of condemnation on here. You have of course read it all in the press
>> Edited by madcop on Monday 18th November 17:27
Got to support Madcop on this one. I was married to a copper for 10 years and I can tell you that sudden deaths are not nice to deal with. Imagine having to walk a mile down a railway track looking for bits after someone jumped in front of an express train or having to help cut down a body after a suicide hanging that had taken place three weeks earlier and in a very hot summer. My ex had to deal with all of this and more. People quite often wander off from a road accident or flee the scene if it is a nicked vehicle.
DONT KNOCK THE POLICE ON THIS ONE UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE IT.
DONT KNOCK THE POLICE ON THIS ONE UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE IT.
Big_M said: Got to support Madcop on this one.
Agreed - would the rest of us do any better, or are we all mere mortals?
It cannot be pleasant sweeping up the debris on our roads at the best of times. We let the guys and girls do a pretty bum job and then good old Joe Public is far too quick to get critical at the slightest thing. We don't need a society riddled with Police-rage, Fire-Brigade-rage or anything-else rage....."road rage" is enough!!!
I don't consider this a knock the police thread. However I am concerned that although in this instance the rider died instantly, he may not have. In which case by "giving up" the search they may have left him to die.
Can we say in this instance what actions were taken by the police service when the officers left the scene of the accident. How quickly were investigations followed up? to the registerred keepers address for example, to confirm the whereabouts of the rider. I've heard of police immediately calling at registered keepers addresses to get breath tests etc for alledged drink driving, can we say they acted as quickly in this instance? I don't know. I haven't had the chance to read all the press coverage. Can anyone add any detail to the press skeleton.
DAZ
PS1 - My first comment with the little smilie was obviously written tongue in cheek.
PS2 - Madcops experience last weekend with the hospital "losing" two patients for a few hours is a bloody disgrace. Maybe there aren't enough "administrators" in the NHS. there's a thought!!
Can we say in this instance what actions were taken by the police service when the officers left the scene of the accident. How quickly were investigations followed up? to the registerred keepers address for example, to confirm the whereabouts of the rider. I've heard of police immediately calling at registered keepers addresses to get breath tests etc for alledged drink driving, can we say they acted as quickly in this instance? I don't know. I haven't had the chance to read all the press coverage. Can anyone add any detail to the press skeleton.
DAZ
PS1 - My first comment with the little smilie was obviously written tongue in cheek.
PS2 - Madcops experience last weekend with the hospital "losing" two patients for a few hours is a bloody disgrace. Maybe there aren't enough "administrators" in the NHS. there's a thought!!
I stick by what I said earlier. The distance from body to bike was 60 metres (not the 1 1/2 hours worth madcop searched) Any bike accident where the bike travels that distance after inpact and kills the rider instantly would be pretty dam major, the damage to the bike significant, more than likely gorges to the tarmac, and damage to crash barrier from either body or bike impact. Any traffic officer should have had the experience to be able to see or atleast visulise the possible scenario's that would have led to the accident, if it wasn't "traffic" that attended then they should have called them, if not then the plod who was there shows a lack of experience. Sixty metres is not far even at night and a body is not a small object to find in the dark. I still think the failure to find the body shows one of two things either a complete lack of knowledge, experience, and foresight i.e incompetance or they simple jumped to incorrect assumptions and couldn't be arsed to check either way they are well in the wrong full stop.
Madcop I'm not a big police knocker and don't jump on every bandwagon, but I do know that in an instance like this the performance is bloody disgraceful. Even your siting of your personal experience simple reinforces the point that in this case they didn't do their job properly. And yes I have looked for dead bodies, I do know what is involved and in my case I've done it not only in the dark and over a large area but underwater with an unknown number being looked for and unsafe structures to boot. If the emergency services can't do their jobs they deserve to be knocked whatever their branch, I got fed up being called in because the so called professionals couldn't manage.
edited because I'd read a bit of madcops post wrongly
>> Edited by mel on Monday 18th November 22:12
Madcop I'm not a big police knocker and don't jump on every bandwagon, but I do know that in an instance like this the performance is bloody disgraceful. Even your siting of your personal experience simple reinforces the point that in this case they didn't do their job properly. And yes I have looked for dead bodies, I do know what is involved and in my case I've done it not only in the dark and over a large area but underwater with an unknown number being looked for and unsafe structures to boot. If the emergency services can't do their jobs they deserve to be knocked whatever their branch, I got fed up being called in because the so called professionals couldn't manage.
edited because I'd read a bit of madcops post wrongly
>> Edited by mel on Monday 18th November 22:12
Given that the body was spotted by someone driving past four hours later you do have to wonder how thorough the search was.
The engine was still running FFS - what were they thinking?
Yes, the Police have a nasty job, one they get far too little respect for, but in this case (assuming the basic facts reported are true) they did shite.
The engine was still running FFS - what were they thinking?
Yes, the Police have a nasty job, one they get far too little respect for, but in this case (assuming the basic facts reported are true) they did shite.
Madcop said:
I never intended to let on what my roll is now, but I have to tell you that I attended the scene of the M25 coach crash on Sunday morning. I attended 7 hours after it had happened to look for two missing people that were on the passenger list and were unaccounted for. It was thought that the coach may have been on top of them. When it was lifted it was apparent they were not there. I spent 1 1/2 hours searching undergrowth and surrounding fields and woods half a mile each side of the crash in order to find them with my Police dog.
Dog Handler
Good Man Explains your previous postings and knowledge about Guard Dogs Act etc when I stood partially corrected by you.
>> Edited by Marcos Maniac on Tuesday 19th November 09:58
Marcos Maniac said:
Dog Handler
Explains your previous postings and knowledge about Guard Dogs Act etc when I stood partially corrected by you.
09:58
I didn't think identifying my current role was relevant to this site so therefore did not mention it.
I was impressed by what you did know about the Guard Dogs Act. Unless you run a security company, you must have a real interest to bother with such obscure legislation
Back on thread,
If those that were sent to deal with this incident had been negligent in their inital action, I can assure you the Proffesional Standards Dept (Complaints and Discipline) who are vociferous in these cases will hang them out to dry.
Being investigated by this lot is no laughing matter. They leave no stones unturned and have power that is not above the law (they have to be E.C.H.R. compliant), but what would be a considerable benefit to those of us that investigate crime.
I agre that if a motorist driving past the scene saw the body 4 hours later, then why did the officers not see it.
You do not know what information they were given by anyone who may have been there,
Look at the example I gave you about the car on top of the bald guy.
The two PCs who originally attended were told that the driver had got out and run up the road, hence a call for my assistance.
If the officers attending the accident in this thread, were told something similar, that the guy had disappeared in the opposite direction, then they may well have searched further up the road from the bike.
I have learnt as a dog handler to disbelieve what someone tells me on arrival at the scene as, under dark circumstances and situations where adrenalin is pumping at a high rate (a mixture of dark and adrenalin is the worst scenario), perception and thoughts are very often mixed up. I often get told that someone has run off in a particular direction , only to find my dog tells me that is not the case at all and they have gone in a completely different direction or not gone at all and are hiding only 20 feet away from where we are all standing discussing where they disappeared into the night from.
>> Edited by madcop on Tuesday 19th November 10:31
madcop said:
Marcos Maniac said:
Dog Handler
Explains your previous postings and knowledge about Guard Dogs Act etc when I stood partially corrected by you.
09:58
I didn't think identifying my current role was relevant to this site so therefore did not mention it.
I was impressed by what you did know about the Guard Dogs Act. Unless you run a security company, you must have a real interest to bother with such obscure legislation
You've got me sussed Madcop.
Madcop said:
Well pointed out! We do only know what we have read in the press and I can well believe that the attending officers will have a reasonable/suitable explanation for the oversight.
My initial posting on the topic was not as a blunt 'slag off the cops' opportunity more as an observation as to the fact that the accident and subsequent situation had occurred.
Michael Atherton's body lay between crash barriers on the central reservation of the A33 in Southampton for more than four hours after he was involved in an accident.
too be fair it was dark:
It was not spotted until a motorist on his way to work at 0730 GMT on Sunday noticed the dead man as he drove past and called police.
I know that situation well
>> Edited by Marcos Maniac on Tuesday 19th November 15:54
>> Edited by Marcos Maniac on Wednesday 20th November 09:30
Back on thread,
If those that were sent to deal with this incident had been negligent in their inital action, I can assure you the Proffesional Standards Dept (Complaints and Discipline) who are vociferous in these cases will hang them out to dry.
Being investigated by this lot is no laughing matter. They leave no stones unturned and have power that is not above the law (they have to be E.C.H.R. compliant), but what would be a considerable benefit to those of us that investigate crime.
I agre that if a motorist driving past the scene saw the body 4 hours later, then why did the officers not see it.
You do not know what information they were given by anyone who may have been there,
Look at the example I gave you about the car on top of the bald guy.
The two PCs who originally attended were told that the driver had got out and run up the road, hence a call for my assistance.
If the officers attending the accident in this thread, were told something similar, that the guy had disappeared in the opposite direction, then they may well have searched further up the road from the bike.
Well pointed out! We do only know what we have read in the press and I can well believe that the attending officers will have a reasonable/suitable explanation for the oversight.
My initial posting on the topic was not as a blunt 'slag off the cops' opportunity more as an observation as to the fact that the accident and subsequent situation had occurred.
Michael Atherton's body lay between crash barriers on the central reservation of the A33 in Southampton for more than four hours after he was involved in an accident.
I agre that if a motorist driving past the scene saw the body 4 hours later, then why did the officers not see it.
too be fair it was dark:
It was not spotted until a motorist on his way to work at 0730 GMT on Sunday noticed the dead man as he drove past and called police.
I have learnt as a dog handler to disbelieve what someone tells me on arrival at the scene as, under dark circumstances and situations where adrenalin is pumping at a high rate (a mixture of dark and adrenalin is the worst scenario), perception and thoughts are very often mixed up. I often get told that someone has run off in a particular direction , only to find my dog tells me that is not the case at all and they have gone in a completely different direction or not gone at all and are hiding only 20 feet away from where we are all standing discussing where they disappeared into the night from.
I know that situation well
>> Edited by Marcos Maniac on Tuesday 19th November 15:54
>> Edited by Marcos Maniac on Wednesday 20th November 09:30
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