Mating a Tuscan RV8 to T5 box... Help !
Discussion
Yes people, progress with 
No27 is slow but I keep running out of cash - I reckon Racing Rod overcharged me in the first place ;-) Only kidding Uncle Rod. I love her even though she's never moved from my garage. Anyway, I don't care if progress is slow so long as I do it right.
So the status ofNo27 is that she's exactly as sold to me by Uncle Rod i.e. minus an AJP engine. HOWEVER I have recently acquired (read "spent all my overtime money again"
on an original Tuscan Challenge engine.... the RV8 version. It has spent the last few years in the careful ownership of a nice chap called John Forsyth in the back of his Pilbeam hillclimb special.
So my garage floor now has a 1999 Tuscan, an RV8 Tuscan engine and a T5 bearbox all neatly laid out but not altogether.
I need a bellhousing for starters (more overtime aaarrrgghh
). But that aside I'm not sure how the two mate together........ the T5 has a splined shaft end with 23 splines but the hole in the end of the engine (when looking through the flywheel) is about the same diameter but with only 10 splines i.e. a much coarser pitch. Are the two supposed to mate or is there an additional component inside the bellhousing ? I suspect there isn't, so what is my best course of action - change the gearbox shaft to a 10 splined jobby or the engine to 23 splines ? 
Thanks !
Richard
No27 is slow but I keep running out of cash - I reckon Racing Rod overcharged me in the first place ;-) Only kidding Uncle Rod. I love her even though she's never moved from my garage. Anyway, I don't care if progress is slow so long as I do it right. So the status of
No27 is that she's exactly as sold to me by Uncle Rod i.e. minus an AJP engine. HOWEVER I have recently acquired (read "spent all my overtime money again" on an original Tuscan Challenge engine.... the RV8 version. It has spent the last few years in the careful ownership of a nice chap called John Forsyth in the back of his Pilbeam hillclimb special. So my garage floor now has a 1999 Tuscan, an RV8 Tuscan engine and a T5 bearbox all neatly laid out but not altogether.
I need a bellhousing for starters (more overtime aaarrrgghh
). But that aside I'm not sure how the two mate together........ the T5 has a splined shaft end with 23 splines but the hole in the end of the engine (when looking through the flywheel) is about the same diameter but with only 10 splines i.e. a much coarser pitch. Are the two supposed to mate or is there an additional component inside the bellhousing ? I suspect there isn't, so what is my best course of action - change the gearbox shaft to a 10 splined jobby or the engine to 23 splines ? Thanks !
Richard
Hi, I went to John Eales For the bell housing for mine.
It also includes a hydraulic release bearing to operate the clutch included. which makes life a little simpler ( from a saab).
There is a seal in the bell housing that needs to be removed and the gearbox may or may not have a sleave over the input shaft that needs cutting off.. The later really confused us as my original ex ajp box had this removed, when that broke and i got another box from john reid it had the sleave on. trying to fit the box under the car we couldnt work out why it wouldnt fit, as we didnt have both boxes in the same place to compair... that cost us a day DOH!!!!
as for the splines, I take it the engine has a clutch on it, and you are looking through the clutch cover (post a pic and i'll confirm). if the motors been in the back of a single seater its probably got a wierd clutch on it.
It should just be a case of a new clutch and cover ( again i got mine from JE). you may want to check the size and type of flywheel though if its been in a single seater, as they may have been changed, for somthing smaller and lighter.
have you got engine mounts and gearbox mounts or are you going to fabricate them? and are you dry or wet sump... I think steve Howard said he might have some orginals knocking around....
If you havent got exhaust manifolds be prepared for a sharp intake of breath and plenty of overtime when you go to get them made... I cheated with a set of zertec headers 2nd hand from ebay (200), but it still cost 600 quid to get the ends moded and some pipes to match up to the side exhaust !!!!
If you want to talk drop me a line via my profile, as we did all this about a year ago
cheers Graham
>> Edited by Graham on Tuesday 15th November 10:19
It also includes a hydraulic release bearing to operate the clutch included. which makes life a little simpler ( from a saab).
There is a seal in the bell housing that needs to be removed and the gearbox may or may not have a sleave over the input shaft that needs cutting off.. The later really confused us as my original ex ajp box had this removed, when that broke and i got another box from john reid it had the sleave on. trying to fit the box under the car we couldnt work out why it wouldnt fit, as we didnt have both boxes in the same place to compair... that cost us a day DOH!!!!
as for the splines, I take it the engine has a clutch on it, and you are looking through the clutch cover (post a pic and i'll confirm). if the motors been in the back of a single seater its probably got a wierd clutch on it.
It should just be a case of a new clutch and cover ( again i got mine from JE). you may want to check the size and type of flywheel though if its been in a single seater, as they may have been changed, for somthing smaller and lighter.
have you got engine mounts and gearbox mounts or are you going to fabricate them? and are you dry or wet sump... I think steve Howard said he might have some orginals knocking around....
If you havent got exhaust manifolds be prepared for a sharp intake of breath and plenty of overtime when you go to get them made... I cheated with a set of zertec headers 2nd hand from ebay (200), but it still cost 600 quid to get the ends moded and some pipes to match up to the side exhaust !!!!
If you want to talk drop me a line via my profile, as we did all this about a year ago
cheers Graham
>> Edited by Graham on Tuesday 15th November 10:19
Link to JE for Bell housing
www.beestore.co.uk/cgi-bin/eGreyl/eGreyl.cgi?&shop=johneales&language=eng&curr=0&product=New%20Parts
www.beestore.co.uk/cgi-bin/eGreyl/eGreyl.cgi?&shop=johneales&language=eng&curr=0&product=New%20Parts
Thanks Graham.
I'll post some photos shortly so you can see the clutch assembly.
That bellhousing looks pretty good. I see a lot of people suggesting using an auto bellhousing and then fabricating a plate but I don't like the sound of it a) it sounds a lot of machining work and b) it sounds a bit rubbish. So I would prefere to buy a cast housing made for the job.
Cheers
Richard
I'll post some photos shortly so you can see the clutch assembly.
That bellhousing looks pretty good. I see a lot of people suggesting using an auto bellhousing and then fabricating a plate but I don't like the sound of it a) it sounds a lot of machining work and b) it sounds a bit rubbish. So I would prefere to buy a cast housing made for the job.
Cheers
Richard
Tuscan_No27 said:
b) it sounds a bit rubbish.
sound like storing up trouble as well to me!!! I didnt think the cost of the je one was too bad either when you consider it comes complete with clutch operating mechanism. all you need to get things working is get 2 hoses made, one from master cyl to the slave and one from the slave out of the bell housing with a remote bleed nipple on it. drill 2 holes in the bell housing for those hoses, and connect them up.
job done..
a similar release mechanism from DT is almost 300 quid
G
Okay got some photos.
First 3 are of the clutch end of the engine and the last two are of the T5.
Sorry my photography skills aren't great.
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
Notice on the following photo, there is the end of a bolt just visible at the 10 o'clock position on the cover plate - any ideas how this is accessed to remove the plate ?
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
Cheers
Richard
First 3 are of the clutch end of the engine and the last two are of the T5.
Sorry my photography skills aren't great.
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
Notice on the following photo, there is the end of a bolt just visible at the 10 o'clock position on the cover plate - any ideas how this is accessed to remove the plate ?
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPh
Cheers
Richard
Tuscan_No27 said:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /155/1/94/56/506619456GDhjdr_fs.jpg on this server.
Hi, Thats better. from a quick look the gear box already has the sleve cut off so it will fit the je bell housing fine ( just remove seal in the bell housing)
now to remove the clutch cover it looks like thouse 6 allen bolts around the out side and the cover should come off and the plate inside it.
Now that flywheel doesnt look standard to me it looks a bit smaller.
Id run a tape over it to be sure whats the diameter...
Cheers Graham
p.s. I take it you'r looking at an electric water pump or are you going to change the front cover.
As your engine is pre serp the dry sump pump is further back than on mine so you should have a little more space !!! and it be slightly easier to fit the engine in...
I'll see if i can dig out some pics of my engine going in for encouragement.... Its a tiht fit
G
p.s. I'd want to check the size of the spigot bearing in the end of the crank too
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 00:18
now to remove the clutch cover it looks like thouse 6 allen bolts around the out side and the cover should come off and the plate inside it.
Now that flywheel doesnt look standard to me it looks a bit smaller.
Id run a tape over it to be sure whats the diameter...
Cheers Graham
p.s. I take it you'r looking at an electric water pump or are you going to change the front cover.
As your engine is pre serp the dry sump pump is further back than on mine so you should have a little more space !!! and it be slightly easier to fit the engine in...
I'll see if i can dig out some pics of my engine going in for encouragement.... Its a tiht fit
G
p.s. I'd want to check the size of the spigot bearing in the end of the crank too
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 00:18
Graham
Pleased to hear the gearbox is ready to go straight onto the JE bellhousing...... "Dear Santa, I've been a good lad all year. Please give me a JE bellhousing"
The flywheel is 260mm diameter to the outside of the teeth. I started loosening the 6 allen bolts but I get the distinct impression that the vaned parts of the clutch just behind the cover are sprung and will shoot across the garage floor when I take the last bolt out. D'ya reckon it'll go back together without the need for a hydraulic press or something. Doesn't matter if you don't know - its got to come off anyway so I might as well give it a go.
Just added some more photos of some spares that came with the car. One is the water pump casing DSCN0940, 948 & 950 (no internals though). You can see in 950 that its not a closed casing so I'm a bit confused there. Is the electric water pump the better way forward ?
Any idea what the top item in photo DSCN0943 is ? I assume the two black boxes below it are some sort of ECU's.
Appreciate your help by the way and would love to see your photos.
Cheers !
Richard
Pleased to hear the gearbox is ready to go straight onto the JE bellhousing...... "Dear Santa, I've been a good lad all year. Please give me a JE bellhousing"
The flywheel is 260mm diameter to the outside of the teeth. I started loosening the 6 allen bolts but I get the distinct impression that the vaned parts of the clutch just behind the cover are sprung and will shoot across the garage floor when I take the last bolt out. D'ya reckon it'll go back together without the need for a hydraulic press or something. Doesn't matter if you don't know - its got to come off anyway so I might as well give it a go.
Just added some more photos of some spares that came with the car. One is the water pump casing DSCN0940, 948 & 950 (no internals though). You can see in 950 that its not a closed casing so I'm a bit confused there. Is the electric water pump the better way forward ?
Any idea what the top item in photo DSCN0943 is ? I assume the two black boxes below it are some sort of ECU's.
Appreciate your help by the way and would love to see your photos.
Cheers !
Richard
I'll have a look at the photos now.
There is some pressure on those vanes holding the clutch plate in position, thats what transfers the drive.. but it shouldnt shoot the plate across the room
so just loosen all the bolts off and let the pressure off then take them all out...
I'll go in the garage and measure a standard flywheel..
G
Ok, It looks like the spare front cover and the one on the engine have both been cut down to fit the waterpump cover thats on the motor at the moment. so your either going to have to find an electric pump that will flow enough or change the front cover. I "might" have a pre-serp front cover and pump somewhere..
pic 943, thats another distributor, it looks like they've been playing with mapped ignition on that engine. did they tell you how to wire up the ignition system thats on the engine currently?
your best bet for info on them is www.mbesystems.com
The Driveplate (it was an auto) on the nearest v8 i could find is 330mm/13" so your fly wheel is a little smaller!!.. Now this doesnt mean you cant use it provided you can find a clutch to match the gearbox. I'd probably speak with some on like John Eales on that one...
If you did change you'd want flywheel, cluch plate and cover and you'd probably also have to change the starter motor, unless it can be adjusted to fit a bigger flywheel.
I've stuck 4 photos up here
www.blackcatracing.net/build
showing std flywheel, trial fit, working out engine mounts ( we used std chim mounts and rubbers plus 1 large bit of angle each side), and proof that it does fit.
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 16:22
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 16:36
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 17:12
There is some pressure on those vanes holding the clutch plate in position, thats what transfers the drive.. but it shouldnt shoot the plate across the room
so just loosen all the bolts off and let the pressure off then take them all out...
I'll go in the garage and measure a standard flywheel..
G
Ok, It looks like the spare front cover and the one on the engine have both been cut down to fit the waterpump cover thats on the motor at the moment. so your either going to have to find an electric pump that will flow enough or change the front cover. I "might" have a pre-serp front cover and pump somewhere..
pic 943, thats another distributor, it looks like they've been playing with mapped ignition on that engine. did they tell you how to wire up the ignition system thats on the engine currently?
your best bet for info on them is www.mbesystems.com
The Driveplate (it was an auto) on the nearest v8 i could find
is 330mm/13" so your fly wheel is a little smaller!!.. Now this doesnt mean you cant use it provided you can find a clutch to match the gearbox. I'd probably speak with some on like John Eales on that one... If you did change you'd want flywheel, cluch plate and cover and you'd probably also have to change the starter motor, unless it can be adjusted to fit a bigger flywheel.
I've stuck 4 photos up here
www.blackcatracing.net/build
showing std flywheel, trial fit, working out engine mounts ( we used std chim mounts and rubbers plus 1 large bit of angle each side), and proof that it does fit.
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 16:22
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 16:36
>> Edited by Graham on Saturday 19th November 17:12
Graham
The ignition system that was last used on this engine was the MSD jobby in pic 944 http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394 and he did show me how to wire this. It comes with two rev limiter chips 7000rpm and 3000rpm (for wet).
Did you have to cut any of the chassis cross-member to get the engine in ? Also, did you fit it with the gearbox attached to the engine or did you fit the gearbox separately ?
I'll get in touch with John Eales next week about the clutch/flywheel.
Any idea what the two parts on the left of pic 941 are ? http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394
The bits on the right are spares for the end of the drive shaft so i just need to transfer the pulley ring onto my engine to drive the alternator presumably (damn, I need an alternator - more overtime!). But I can't work out what the two parts are on the left of the pic ????
Cheers
Rich
The ignition system that was last used on this engine was the MSD jobby in pic 944 http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394 and he did show me how to wire this. It comes with two rev limiter chips 7000rpm and 3000rpm (for wet).
Did you have to cut any of the chassis cross-member to get the engine in ? Also, did you fit it with the gearbox attached to the engine or did you fit the gearbox separately ?
I'll get in touch with John Eales next week about the clutch/flywheel.
Any idea what the two parts on the left of pic 941 are ? http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394
The bits on the right are spares for the end of the drive shaft so i just need to transfer the pulley ring onto my engine to drive the alternator presumably (damn, I need an alternator - more overtime!). But I can't work out what the two parts are on the left of the pic ????
Cheers
Rich
Tuscan_No27 said:
Graham
The ignition system that was last used on this engine was the MSD jobby in pic 944 http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394 and he did show me how to wire this. It comes with two rev limiter chips 7000rpm and 3000rpm (for wet).
cool, I'd make sure you document that
Did you have to cut any of the chassis cross-member to get the engine in ?
No!, When we fitted our engine we made sure that no chassis mods were needed so that a ajp could slot straight back in if needed
Also, did you fit it with the gearbox attached to the engine or did you fit the gearbox separately ?
You def need to fit it with the gearbox attatched, there is so much to juggle. On out car the gear box ended up further back and higher up. needing a bigger hole in the trans tunnel ( just cutting grp) and the propshaft shortening.
we basically put everything as low and as far back as we could.
I'll get in touch with John Eales next week about the clutch/flywheel.
Any idea what the two parts on the left of pic 941 are ? http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/507394
The bits on the right are spares for the end of the drive shaft so i just need to transfer the pulley ring onto my engine to drive the alternator presumably (damn, I need an alternator - more overtime!). But I can't work out what the two parts are on the left of the pic ????
that pics got a front pully, short looking serp belt and either an alternator or waterpump pully.
for alternators if you want second hand try www.famousfour.co.uk ask for andrew and tell him I sent you
Where are you based, might be worth popping down to Kidderminster for a poke around mine and a pint
cheers
G
Cheers
Rich
Hi Graham
I'm in Northumberland but next time I'm in your area I'll get in touch - how do I email you offline... through blackcat racing ?
Just taken the clutch plate off - easy.... and nothing flew across the garage floor
http://community.webshots.com/photo/508007817/508007
http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/508007
The flywheel is actuall 268mm dia and had 6 8mm holes on 200mm PCD. The clutch plate mating face on the flywheel is 185mm dia which I assume is for a 7 1/2" clutch. I've emailed John Eales to see if I can keep this because it already has the starter motor fitted and I'd rather not spend £680 for his slightly larger dia flywheel if I can help it.
Going to check out your alternator link now.
Cheers
Rich
I'm in Northumberland but next time I'm in your area I'll get in touch - how do I email you offline... through blackcat racing ?
Just taken the clutch plate off - easy.... and nothing flew across the garage floor
http://community.webshots.com/photo/508007817/508007
http://community.webshots.com/photo/506618349/508007
The flywheel is actuall 268mm dia and had 6 8mm holes on 200mm PCD. The clutch plate mating face on the flywheel is 185mm dia which I assume is for a 7 1/2" clutch. I've emailed John Eales to see if I can keep this because it already has the starter motor fitted and I'd rather not spend £680 for his slightly larger dia flywheel if I can help it.
Going to check out your alternator link now.
Cheers
Rich
Hi, You Should have mail..
if you need to change the fly wheel you dont have to go to the special 680 quid one..
je and rpi both do a lightened and balanced flywheel and clutch pack which is about half that ( and you need a clutch anyway), and you can get a standard starter for under 100 quid..
Famous4 might be able to help on a 2nd hand fly wheel but as they are mainly Range rovers there a little rare.
The old clutch does look a bit trick.
G
if you need to change the fly wheel you dont have to go to the special 680 quid one..
je and rpi both do a lightened and balanced flywheel and clutch pack which is about half that ( and you need a clutch anyway), and you can get a standard starter for under 100 quid..
Famous4 might be able to help on a 2nd hand fly wheel but as they are mainly Range rovers there a little rare.
The old clutch does look a bit trick.
G
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