M400 with new engine!
Discussion
Has anyone seen this ad yet in the classifieds....www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/57055.htm
I know the TVR speed six engine has taken some flack recently and deservedly so but I would be worried that this could happen after the 1 year warranty runs out, pretty expensive methinks and the car has dropped over £10,000 in less than 4,000 miles if he gets what he is asking.
I think TVR have taken a brave step with their 3 year warranty but it's about time Noble gave at least 2 years on the engine/gearbox. The prices they are asking justify this IMHO. The M14 should be a great car but at the predicted price it needs a better warranty package.
I know the TVR speed six engine has taken some flack recently and deservedly so but I would be worried that this could happen after the 1 year warranty runs out, pretty expensive methinks and the car has dropped over £10,000 in less than 4,000 miles if he gets what he is asking.
I think TVR have taken a brave step with their 3 year warranty but it's about time Noble gave at least 2 years on the engine/gearbox. The prices they are asking justify this IMHO. The M14 should be a great car but at the predicted price it needs a better warranty package.
Would agree... as Noble seeks to produce a more complete and roadworthy product a warrantee increase could be a part of the assurance of commitment to customers. This is perhaps especially needed in US where the car comes as components, requires a couple of months to get it built then a month or more to get paperwork from 1G racing then another 6 - 8 weeks to get through state regulations before the car can be registered or driven.
That said and in fairness... I have seen every evidence that both 1G and the factory stand behind their product.
That said and in fairness... I have seen every evidence that both 1G and the factory stand behind their product.
Think that may be the car that died on the owners day last year.
As to the warranty, its a bit of a dead horse. The factory know peoples feelings on it, but presumably the maths doesn't work.
TVR only upped the warranty because of the perceived complete absence of quality in their cars.
DanH
I agree TVR had to do something but buying a 2nd hand 12 month old £60,000 car is a bit daunting with no factory warranty as we all know. I think 2nd hand Noble prices would be a lot stronger if they had a 2 year warranty. Feel sorry for this guy as he says the car has been at the factory since March which makes his 3,700 miles very expensive ones and I notice there is no mention of any warranty on an engine that has been rebuilt?
I know there are lemons out there from all car manufacturers but Noble need to look into their warranty situation when they start selling cars at near £80,000 otherwise the resale value after 12 months will not be what it should be that's for sure.
I know in the past I have baited a few on here re TVRs but Noble are moving up a notch with the prices they charge and will soon be in Porsche territory. TVR need to keep their cars in the £40,000 market and I am sure sooner than later they will get it right under the new management, I hope Noble do also cos they deserve to.
I agree TVR had to do something but buying a 2nd hand 12 month old £60,000 car is a bit daunting with no factory warranty as we all know. I think 2nd hand Noble prices would be a lot stronger if they had a 2 year warranty. Feel sorry for this guy as he says the car has been at the factory since March which makes his 3,700 miles very expensive ones and I notice there is no mention of any warranty on an engine that has been rebuilt?
I know there are lemons out there from all car manufacturers but Noble need to look into their warranty situation when they start selling cars at near £80,000 otherwise the resale value after 12 months will not be what it should be that's for sure.
I know in the past I have baited a few on here re TVRs but Noble are moving up a notch with the prices they charge and will soon be in Porsche territory. TVR need to keep their cars in the £40,000 market and I am sure sooner than later they will get it right under the new management, I hope Noble do also cos they deserve to.
I may be strange but the warranty isn't any where near my list of top 10 "tick boxes" when I look at a 50k+ car, and even less so when I look at a car like the M14. As Noble have yet to release any commercial details of the M14 sales package I think it's a bit premature to have a pop at it....
Given to get the performance of an M12 or M14 in other marques you are into £100k+, almost any bill after the first year is going to still make the car a bargin IMHO. Plus you have the normal SoGA protection (any warranty, Noble's 1 year or BMW's 5 year is in addition to you statutory rights) so it's not something I've ever really considered, and remember I ran the M12 for 31 months with well documented problems (of which none required a 'warranty' to get fixed) so I'm not just speculating.
However, I am sure some people like the reassurance that they have a bit of paper that says 3 year warranty. But, the comparison with TVR, if the forums on here are anything to go by, is an interesting one. At the end of the day what do you want? A car like my M400 who's worse issue has been an air-con system that needed re-gassing and a handbrake that needed adjusting with its 1 year warranty, or a 3 year "warranty" and a broken engine and suspension....
Call me reckless or stupid, but I'd much rather have a performance car that I know has people behind it that actually care about their customers than a "mass" produced "don't give a toss, sue us" example.
But then perhaps I am a bit contradictory as for a "daily drive", the priority is a car that had £100,000,000's spent on it's development..... hence X5.
J
Given to get the performance of an M12 or M14 in other marques you are into £100k+, almost any bill after the first year is going to still make the car a bargin IMHO. Plus you have the normal SoGA protection (any warranty, Noble's 1 year or BMW's 5 year is in addition to you statutory rights) so it's not something I've ever really considered, and remember I ran the M12 for 31 months with well documented problems (of which none required a 'warranty' to get fixed) so I'm not just speculating.
However, I am sure some people like the reassurance that they have a bit of paper that says 3 year warranty. But, the comparison with TVR, if the forums on here are anything to go by, is an interesting one. At the end of the day what do you want? A car like my M400 who's worse issue has been an air-con system that needed re-gassing and a handbrake that needed adjusting with its 1 year warranty, or a 3 year "warranty" and a broken engine and suspension....
Call me reckless or stupid, but I'd much rather have a performance car that I know has people behind it that actually care about their customers than a "mass" produced "don't give a toss, sue us" example.
But then perhaps I am a bit contradictory as for a "daily drive", the priority is a car that had £100,000,000's spent on it's development..... hence X5.
J
joust said:
Oh, dam, I wondered if I'd flush you out 
J
No Nobles here, but you might enjoy this vid :
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=222741&f=48&h=0
This one looks a good buy as well. Year old M400 for £46.5k with 4k miles. It actually looks like Tomahawks car but i'm not sure. Dropping about £1k a month if it goes for the full asking, which should put similar cars in the late 30's next year. That would make them an absolute steal.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/56309.htm
Not gonna bother with the whole warranty debate again
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/56309.htm
Not gonna bother with the whole warranty debate again
joust said:
A car like my M400 who's worse issue has been an air-con system that needed re-gassing and a handbrake that needed adjusting with its 1 year warranty, or a 3 year "warranty" and a broken engine and suspension....
The car that I am on about is a M400 that has done less than 4,000 miles HAS got a broken engine and has been back at the factory since March! I am sure there are other TVR owners that can post a similar post to you Joust and you are fortunate that you don't consider it important that the cars have only a 1 year warranty and your daily drive is an X5 or that your 1st Noble had about 3 engine rebuild etc etc. I just made a comment that Noble charge £60,000 for the car in question and give a 1 year warranty and "might" give the same on the M14 and to most people that have not bought a Noble yet when you start paying Porsche money you would expect a 2 year warranty.
But hey maybe I expect too much and most owners/future owners are like Joust?
washy said:
I think, while the order books are full, not much will change with warranties. Why would they if they're selling all the new cars they can?
Washy - Very true. I'm sure warranties aren't cheap to underwrite for a relatively small company like noble, However, in my opinion a longer warranty a) Shows a companies confidence in it's product b) It's very hard to regain a reputation once lost.
I will never buy a new car again from Noble until a full 3 year FACTORY warranty is available. Third party warranties are just more insurance and in my experience are as good as worthless come claim time. I'm obviously not alone in this view.
I think a full 3 year warranty is out of the question. Porsche only give away 2 years (and look how confident they are/should be about that product) and I think Lotus are the same. TVR offer a limited 3 year mechanical breakdown warranty not a full 3 year warranty and the new owner has deep pockets to help with that. Plus TVR need it to try and sell cars. TVR's are very slow to sell and have been for a while. From what I hear, Noble's are not.
The fact that some folk won't buy a new car is not a problem until Noble aren't filling the quota of cars they can build.
The fact that some folk won't buy a new car is not a problem until Noble aren't filling the quota of cars they can build.
Stuh
The 2nd hand M400 at £46,500 you mention helps prove my point, that is equivalent to seeing a 4,500 mile Sagaris for sale at around £36,500. I know you guys are keen to knock TVRs and I know Joust "brags" that he would rather have a 1 year warranty and have no problems than 3 years and plenty but he is an exception as we all know Nobles go wrong also. It's a poor excuse (re finances) when an M400 is nearly £10,000 more than a Sagaris but only has a 12 month warranty.
And I think if the cars are as good as Joust says they are then a 2 year warranty should not cost Noble much anyway!!
The 2nd hand M400 at £46,500 you mention helps prove my point, that is equivalent to seeing a 4,500 mile Sagaris for sale at around £36,500. I know you guys are keen to knock TVRs and I know Joust "brags" that he would rather have a 1 year warranty and have no problems than 3 years and plenty but he is an exception as we all know Nobles go wrong also. It's a poor excuse (re finances) when an M400 is nearly £10,000 more than a Sagaris but only has a 12 month warranty.
And I think if the cars are as good as Joust says they are then a 2 year warranty should not cost Noble much anyway!!
washy said:
I think a full 3 year warranty is out of the question. Porsche only give away 2 years (and look how confident they are/should be about that product) and I think Lotus are the same. TVR offer a limited 3 year mechanical breakdown warranty not a full 3 year warranty and the new owner has deep pockets to help with that. Plus TVR need it to try and sell cars. TVR's are very slow to sell and have been for a while. From what I hear, Noble's are not.
The fact that some folk won't buy a new car is not a problem until Noble aren't filling the quota of cars they can build.
I guess it depends on your perspective and level of expectation? Porsche have historically had amazing residulals as they were bulletproof mechanically. The RMS issue has taken the shine of that of late though. However as my experience of Noble reliabilty is worse than that of TVR, i personally would need the assurance of a full warranty.
Like any manufacturer there will come a time when the supply of used models starts to dent the sale of new ones. Noble has always shown itself to be a cut above the competition with customer service (witness Micknalls helpful posts on this BB) so i would have expected them to start offering a warranty pro-actively now, as opposed to a reactive measure to dwindling sales?
Or perhaps the "enthusiast" nature of the majority of Noble buyers will mean that the trade-off of price/performance will always keep the order book full?
>> Edited by stuh on Friday 18th November 10:32
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