outriggers.......aaagghh!
Discussion
hello as no one has replied yet i suggest you do a history search for 'outriggers' and see what comes up.i know you can have them welded...depends where and how rusty i suppose!
i dont think you want to replace the whole chassis......very expensive .good luck,i think it is our worst nightmare....those bl''dy outriggers.rob
i dont think you want to replace the whole chassis......very expensive .good luck,i think it is our worst nightmare....those bl''dy outriggers.rob
Yeah a '97, you wouldn't think it would you. If it were a Porsche etc and you heard of chasis going after only 8 years you'd think there's be some come-backs on the company.
'Phoned Tower View, thanks Steve, just off to Peninsula who say they can replace them without lifting the body and get a price.....more to follow!
Steve.
>> Edited by steve1c on Saturday 19th November 09:58
'Phoned Tower View, thanks Steve, just off to Peninsula who say they can replace them without lifting the body and get a price.....more to follow!
Steve.
>> Edited by steve1c on Saturday 19th November 09:58
steve1c said:
Yeah a '97, you wouldn't think it would you. If it were a Porsche etc and you heard of chasis going after only 8 years you'd think there's be some come-backs on the company.
'Phoned Tower View, thanks Steve, just off to Peninsula who say they can replace them without lifting the body and get a price.....more to follow!
Steve.
>> Edited by steve1c on Saturday 19th November 09:58
Please keep us informed of your progress - lots of people on here will be interested
Ok, went to Peninsula, the guys there lifted it onto the ramp and invited me to have a look around. The main box section of the chasis front to back is 95% A1. However, the tube sections everywhere are worryingly corroded. The drivers side outriger had a decent hole in it, about two inches by one inch. The passengers side was rusty but ok for now. The cure...cut away part of the driver foot well to gain access to the outrigger and re-sleeve new tube sections. Also, the two seat belt anchors were badly corroded, these are just infront of the rear wheeel and so get a bashing from the elements and stones etc. The cure...seats out, remove old and replace on both sides.
The long tube sections that go front to rear were also quite bad, as were other bits at the back and I suspect in about a year (I hope longer) the other front outrigger will need replacement. Asking some direct questions and getting some direct answers in return...I'm looking at a total chasis replacement in 2, maybe three years. I've asked them to get me some prices so I can start putting some money aside each month. (After I've paid for the present work that is).
Now, if you thought that sent a shiver up your spine.......mines a 97 and they have seen 99's with chasis that are worse. One side of me wants to get hold of TVR and say that this is an absolute discrace, what are you going to do about it etc. The other says grin and put up with it, nothing else for the money comes close to the experience of owning/driving my 500. But as I've said, if other car companies had these chasis problems after such a short time after brand new, they'd be in court, out of buisiness or on the front over of every car mag with a big red flag flying a warning, resulting in dramatic losses in sales and a weekly appearance in court.
It gets worse... they have also seen cars where the chasis didn't look too bad, but it was actually rusting from the inside out! Ok, try and resist reaching for the bottle just yet...
How difficult would it have been to protect the chasis properly? The very positioning of the front outrigger a few inches behing the front wheel with no protection from stones etc baffles me. A cover of some kind would help enormously, as would a decent protective coating on the whole chasis in the first place. It's not rocket science.
I've spent the morning with a calculator and a frown, trying to justify keeping her, as opposed to selling up and moving to a 993 or XKR etc. Not sure, head says one thing, heart the other. But so far, I've put a new cam in, clutch, engine mods, tyres, de-catted and put non-reversal cones, sports exhaust....the list goes on and I feel like one of those gamblers who has put so much in that they can't walk away, as there is the feeling that there must be a payout soon! So I'm thinking, right, spend this for now, new chasis in a few years and that's it.
Or is it?
Anyway, I hope that this helps someone somewhere, if only to make you spend that extra few quid looking after the metal work underneath. Oh, and if you are from TVR and are reading this, send me a new chasis please, you know it's the right thing to do.
Steve.
The long tube sections that go front to rear were also quite bad, as were other bits at the back and I suspect in about a year (I hope longer) the other front outrigger will need replacement. Asking some direct questions and getting some direct answers in return...I'm looking at a total chasis replacement in 2, maybe three years. I've asked them to get me some prices so I can start putting some money aside each month. (After I've paid for the present work that is).
Now, if you thought that sent a shiver up your spine.......mines a 97 and they have seen 99's with chasis that are worse. One side of me wants to get hold of TVR and say that this is an absolute discrace, what are you going to do about it etc. The other says grin and put up with it, nothing else for the money comes close to the experience of owning/driving my 500. But as I've said, if other car companies had these chasis problems after such a short time after brand new, they'd be in court, out of buisiness or on the front over of every car mag with a big red flag flying a warning, resulting in dramatic losses in sales and a weekly appearance in court.
It gets worse... they have also seen cars where the chasis didn't look too bad, but it was actually rusting from the inside out! Ok, try and resist reaching for the bottle just yet...
How difficult would it have been to protect the chasis properly? The very positioning of the front outrigger a few inches behing the front wheel with no protection from stones etc baffles me. A cover of some kind would help enormously, as would a decent protective coating on the whole chasis in the first place. It's not rocket science.
I've spent the morning with a calculator and a frown, trying to justify keeping her, as opposed to selling up and moving to a 993 or XKR etc. Not sure, head says one thing, heart the other. But so far, I've put a new cam in, clutch, engine mods, tyres, de-catted and put non-reversal cones, sports exhaust....the list goes on and I feel like one of those gamblers who has put so much in that they can't walk away, as there is the feeling that there must be a payout soon! So I'm thinking, right, spend this for now, new chasis in a few years and that's it.
Or is it?
Anyway, I hope that this helps someone somewhere, if only to make you spend that extra few quid looking after the metal work underneath. Oh, and if you are from TVR and are reading this, send me a new chasis please, you know it's the right thing to do.
Steve.
Can't you just replace the chassis rails as they fail, rather than install an entire new chassis?
Obviously its going to require an experienced welder who knows about sports cars, but I don't see it being that difficult? If an F1 team can repair a damaged F1 car chassis, I'm sure that a TVR can be similarly repaired!
Obviously its going to require an experienced welder who knows about sports cars, but I don't see it being that difficult? If an F1 team can repair a damaged F1 car chassis, I'm sure that a TVR can be similarly repaired!
My previous Chimaera had holed outriggers. Seems quite a common problem but not cheap to sort if paying someone to do it. It is possible to separate the body and lower the chassis sufficiently to remove and replace the outriggers without going for a complete body off. This will cost about £2K-£3K I would estimate. I was quoted to have body off, repair, protection and replacement, but that would be over £4K.
Do a search under Chimaera and Griffith and you will find lots of info, advise and contacts.
Once you know that this WILL happen, you can protect for the future!
I don't think TVR recommend repairing the chassis probably due to distortion/strength issues and offer a replacement. The price goes up and up!! But lots get repaured, so it can't be that hard to get done.
Do a search under Chimaera and Griffith and you will find lots of info, advise and contacts.
Once you know that this WILL happen, you can protect for the future!
I don't think TVR recommend repairing the chassis probably due to distortion/strength issues and offer a replacement. The price goes up and up!! But lots get repaured, so it can't be that hard to get done.
The problem would be when the corrosion is at a junction, which frankly is where most of it centres anyway - the welds are the first place the rot gets a hold. Outriggers get a hard time and are an exception, (which frankly is down to lack of preventative maintenance, though you could well argue that people shouldn't expect to have to strip and repaint the chassis, and I;d have to agree); but largely its the joints that rot out, not the middles of tubes.
Sleeving outriggers is one thing, as there are no mechanicals suspended from these - they just stop your balls from kissing the black stuff. Ripping out a four way joint in the main backbone and welding in a new section would be another matter methinks, with no guarantees of a straight chassis afterwards. Then there's proximity to petrol tanks, engine, fuel lines, electrics, problems cutting out body sections for access; it just gets difficult!
And a false economy frankly. If its that bad in one place, chances are the whole thing hasn't long in this world, and a body off chassis replacement is the only viable option. My personal view is that if there is corrosion bad enough to warrant body off repairs you'd be a mug not to junk the chassis and fit a new one, as your buying a few years at most, at what cost? I know not everyone agrees with this, but I set high standards.
What I can't understand is how it comes as such a surprise to anyone that their chassis has rotted out. It is a known problem, the joys of Hammerite/POR/Waxoyl etc. all are discussed at length regularly on here, yet still people suddenly discover that their chassis is rotten. Do they have blinkers on or something? Do they think people do that stuff for the hell of it, just like getting manky under the car, do it for no good reason, and it isn't going to happen to them?
Like it or not the chassis is a real problem on these cars. Unless protected properly, inspected regularly, and maintained religiously they WILL rot out. Even with the above I don't kid myself that the chassis will last forever, but barring hidden rot from inside mine is sound for another ten years, having been thoroughly stripped and protected at the five year point before anything got out of hand.
If I were buying a used car I'd want to know what has been done to protect the chassis. A pristine shiny TVR on top with a crumbing chassis is worth a lot less than a cosmetically scruffy one with a rock solid chassis. Proper inspection is vital; you must get under the car before you buy, and you have to know whats under the waxoyl. If the seller has no idea what's under there WALK AWAY. Main dealer servicing is no guarantee of a sound chassis - many are ticking off the years until they get a big pay day every time they get under your car - why else would people be suddenly discovering this problem? That degree of corrosion damage didn't just happen since your last service.
Blimey, that turned into a rant!
Sleeving outriggers is one thing, as there are no mechanicals suspended from these - they just stop your balls from kissing the black stuff. Ripping out a four way joint in the main backbone and welding in a new section would be another matter methinks, with no guarantees of a straight chassis afterwards. Then there's proximity to petrol tanks, engine, fuel lines, electrics, problems cutting out body sections for access; it just gets difficult!
And a false economy frankly. If its that bad in one place, chances are the whole thing hasn't long in this world, and a body off chassis replacement is the only viable option. My personal view is that if there is corrosion bad enough to warrant body off repairs you'd be a mug not to junk the chassis and fit a new one, as your buying a few years at most, at what cost? I know not everyone agrees with this, but I set high standards.
What I can't understand is how it comes as such a surprise to anyone that their chassis has rotted out. It is a known problem, the joys of Hammerite/POR/Waxoyl etc. all are discussed at length regularly on here, yet still people suddenly discover that their chassis is rotten. Do they have blinkers on or something? Do they think people do that stuff for the hell of it, just like getting manky under the car, do it for no good reason, and it isn't going to happen to them?
Like it or not the chassis is a real problem on these cars. Unless protected properly, inspected regularly, and maintained religiously they WILL rot out. Even with the above I don't kid myself that the chassis will last forever, but barring hidden rot from inside mine is sound for another ten years, having been thoroughly stripped and protected at the five year point before anything got out of hand.
If I were buying a used car I'd want to know what has been done to protect the chassis. A pristine shiny TVR on top with a crumbing chassis is worth a lot less than a cosmetically scruffy one with a rock solid chassis. Proper inspection is vital; you must get under the car before you buy, and you have to know whats under the waxoyl. If the seller has no idea what's under there WALK AWAY. Main dealer servicing is no guarantee of a sound chassis - many are ticking off the years until they get a big pay day every time they get under your car - why else would people be suddenly discovering this problem? That degree of corrosion damage didn't just happen since your last service.
Blimey, that turned into a rant!
steve1c said:Spot on, the outriggers should have been in a channel like the side rails.
How difficult would it have been to protect the chasis properly? The very positioning of the front outrigger a few inches behing the front wheel with no protection from stones etc baffles me. A cover of some kind would help enormously, as would a decent protective coating on the whole chasis in the first place. It's not rocket science.
There has to be a market for a protective cover for this area. It would have to be a clever design to avoid becoming even more of a dirt trap, but impact protection for the outriggers would help enormously.
Sold my 99 Chimaera earlier this year, I even purchased a two poster ramp to do the underneath and maintainance which saved me a packet. But even with the task made easier with it up in the air, it would still piss me off completely while scrapping away the rust the thought that this car was over 30k only a few years earlier, and a little more time spent prepping the chassis and coating in the factory could have avoided a lot of these problems. Hence my decision to leave the marque and buy a Boxster, cos at the end of the day, a car with a knackered chassis is worth very little.
peter miller said:
Sold my 99 Chimaera earlier this year, I even purchased a two poster ramp to do the underneath and maintainance which saved me a packet. But even with the task made easier with it up in the air, it would still piss me off completely while scrapping away the rust the thought that this car was over 30k only a few years earlier, and a little more time spent prepping the chassis and coating in the factory could have avoided a lot of these problems. Hence my decision to leave the marque and buy a Boxster, cos at the end of the day, a car with a knackered chassis is worth very little.
Understand that completely. Yes I've been considering the Boxter S as it has a fair bit of oomph and some decent reliability from what I've been told, plus some great road holding, although a different car to the 5.ltr chim obviously. If I was rich, I'd keep her for sure and replace the chasis every 8 yrs. Every single time I go out in it is the dream car I've always wanted and its grin time.
I totaly agree with you...a little more prep on the chasis at factory would half the trouble. It's not a case of if...but when! Next step is eeing what I can do with a chasis that would make it last for 25 years like other cars, not 8.
Steve,
I was in the position you seem to be in just a few months ago, wondering what I would be giving up, moving from a 4ltr Chimaera to a Boxster, but to be honest I have been very impressed with the Porsche so far, and even though it is only the 2.7, in reality on todays roads it is just as quick, obviously The Tvr is quicker in a straight line sprint, but it would quickly be reeled in around the bends. But there are so many plus points with the Boxster, I average 32mpg, and can get it up to high 30s on a cruise,There are virtually no rattles or squeaks, and although it will never sound as good as the V8 Tvr, the flat six has a lovely wail of its own, especially above 4k.
Went out today for a nice drive, roof down (and what a roof) bum warmers on and away me and the misses went.
The other point I should make is that my car being a 04 model, 53 plate is that the servicing is every 2years or 12000 miles, so being a purely pleasure vehicle, eg up to 6k a year the servicing works out very reasonable,about half the overall cost of the TVR with plenty of good specialists around to suit your budget.
The only downside That I have noticed with owning a Boxster, are the general comments from the uneducated as to it not being a real Porsche and the other one being that people who buy a Boxster only do so because they cannot afford a 911. But to that comment I answer, " not true, I can afford a 911 But I chose a Boxster." So in my opinion a fine car that Deserves its recognition.
Oh, forgot to mention, I havent used my Ramp since June and have not suffered the old rust in the eye syndrome, or smelling like a tub of waxoil.
I was in the position you seem to be in just a few months ago, wondering what I would be giving up, moving from a 4ltr Chimaera to a Boxster, but to be honest I have been very impressed with the Porsche so far, and even though it is only the 2.7, in reality on todays roads it is just as quick, obviously The Tvr is quicker in a straight line sprint, but it would quickly be reeled in around the bends. But there are so many plus points with the Boxster, I average 32mpg, and can get it up to high 30s on a cruise,There are virtually no rattles or squeaks, and although it will never sound as good as the V8 Tvr, the flat six has a lovely wail of its own, especially above 4k.
Went out today for a nice drive, roof down (and what a roof) bum warmers on and away me and the misses went.
The other point I should make is that my car being a 04 model, 53 plate is that the servicing is every 2years or 12000 miles, so being a purely pleasure vehicle, eg up to 6k a year the servicing works out very reasonable,about half the overall cost of the TVR with plenty of good specialists around to suit your budget.
The only downside That I have noticed with owning a Boxster, are the general comments from the uneducated as to it not being a real Porsche and the other one being that people who buy a Boxster only do so because they cannot afford a 911. But to that comment I answer, " not true, I can afford a 911 But I chose a Boxster." So in my opinion a fine car that Deserves its recognition.
Oh, forgot to mention, I havent used my Ramp since June and have not suffered the old rust in the eye syndrome, or smelling like a tub of waxoil.
2 Smokin Barrels said:
Steve,
sensible stuff
But..who wants to be sensible!
Agreed, TVR's are all about passion, the heart overules the head,you allow youself to continually forgive the car for all its problems because you are in love with it. but eventually after forking out large ammounts of hard earned dosh, and standing underneath you p+j being showered with shit that used to be part of your car, with an MOT failiure certificate in one hand and a scraper in the other,the head reverts back to being in charge.
2 Smokin Barrels said:
Steve,
sensible stuff
But..who wants to be sensible!
Agreed, TVR's are all about passion, the heart overules the head,you allow youself to continually forgive the car for all its problems because you are in love with it. but eventually after forking out large ammounts of hard earned dosh, and standing underneath you p+j being showered with shit that used to be part of your car, with an MOT failiure certificate in one hand and a scraper in the other,the head reverts back to being in charge.
peter miller said:
Steve,
I was in the position you seem to be in just a few months ago, wondering what I would be giving up, moving from a 4ltr Chimaera to a Boxster, but to be honest I have been very impressed with the Porsche so far, and even though it is only the 2.7, in reality on todays roads it is just as quick, obviously The Tvr is quicker in a straight line sprint, but it would quickly be reeled in around the bends. But there are so many plus points with the Boxster, I average 32mpg, and can get it up to high 30s on a cruise,There are virtually no rattles or squeaks, and although it will never sound as good as the V8 Tvr, the flat six has a lovely wail of its own, especially above 4k.
Went out today for a nice drive, roof down (and what a roof) bum warmers on and away me and the misses went.
The other point I should make is that my car being a 04 model, 53 plate is that the servicing is every 2years or 12000 miles, so being a purely pleasure vehicle, eg up to 6k a year the servicing works out very reasonable,about half the overall cost of the TVR with plenty of good specialists around to suit your budget.
The only downside That I have noticed with owning a Boxster, are the general comments from the uneducated as to it not being a real Porsche and the other one being that people who buy a Boxster only do so because they cannot afford a 911. But to that comment I answer, " not true, I can afford a 911 But I chose a Boxster." So in my opinion a fine car that Deserves its recognition.
Oh, forgot to mention, I havent used my Ramp since June and have not suffered the old rust in the eye syndrome, or smelling like a tub of waxoil.
Thanks for that Pete,
Yes I have looked into one and can agree with your stand point, at the moment, it's undecided. As for TVR run form the heart, totaly there (for now).
I guess i work about 55 hrs per week and want some reward apart from the bills being paid, and the 5.ltr chim is it and it's great. But the rverse can be true...why waste the cash.
Mmmm, outriggers. Heres my read-it-and-weep from two years ago - note there were no actual holes in the rusted tubing before I started poking about - mine passed MOTs with outriggers about as tough as those little bread stick things Italian restaurants give you free 
Your car's been failed by a TVR main dealer, 'joe bloggs' backstreet MOT station wouldn't have spotted it. Mine was repaired with the body still on - whether it's classed as a 100% 'proper' job I don't know, but if I'd crashed my griff before the work was done, I probably wouldn't be here to type this.
Check those seatbelt mounts!
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