Pccb............Anyone know a good Solicitor??

[Rob_T]

firstly do not let darren fob you off. i have been on the receiving end of his nonsense. having said that he is correct in saying the discs are not covered by warranty as it is a wear and tear item. don't start talking solicitors either, it'll only put their backs up and they are strictly right in what they are saying. you're after a goodwill gesture to resolve this in your favour.

however seeing as you bought the car only 6 weeks ago, and on the assumption you have not done any track days in that time it is unlikey that you would have caused this problem. if there is pitting on the discs i would have thought that signs of it would have existed when you purchased the car.

my advice to you is to speak to pauline loader who is the sales director there...

she is a very reasonable and professional individual (she certainly had a very sensible, mature and professional approach when I was buying my gt2 from them and had some queries / issues).

i think the best you will get away with is having the front discs changed to steels free of charge. from what you say, and more from what you don't (ie I am assuming) they shouldn't really have sold the car with the discs on, but it would have been too expensive to change and would have eaten into their margin too much. replacement steels on the front cost about £600 - £700 i think if you get the standard cross drilled ones. if however you intend to track the car, get some floating discs (alcons or brembos). more expensive so you might have to stump up the difference.

if you've got any other questions feel free to pm me. i'm no authority on pccb, but have managed to negotiate my way through the fog of the reading fob off having bought my last 2 911's from them...

it seems that they were lucky in finding a young whippersnapper who possibly didn't do proper due diligence before making his purchase (no offense there - just making an observation). ahh the impetuousness of youth.

[DanH]

Theres a good bit in the original sales bumpf :

'designed to cope with even the most extreme conditions on race-track and road.'

Also a pic of a disk glowing read whilst being 'endurance tested'.

Naturally you can't get this brochure anymore as it got pulled as soon as they started having problems.

If you want new disks I think you are going to be aiming for a goodwill gesture, but it will be a fight. You could try doing them under the SOGA but its going to be a pain.

[Adam B]

I wouldn't buy a PCCB car w/o a separate OPC letter clearly stating they are covered from pitting / cracks unless it has been tracked (and they have to prove that it has)

bad that this was not spotted on the 111 check

[DanH]

p4lny said:

[quote=DanH] Naturally you can't get this brochure anymore as it got pulled as soon as they started having problems. quote] Saying that though i did manage to purchase one from E-bay a couple of weeks back and im sure its the original, Although like a muppet its in the glovebox Would this help my case? >> Edited by p4lny on Friday 18th November 22:09

Well thats what I'm not sure of. I have an electronic copy for this eventuality too. They stopped publishing it a while ago though so they might claim its not relevant? Perhaps contact your CAB bureau and perhaps even the office of fair trading to see if they can be done for such ridiculous pricing. 5k a disk is a 10x premium and a considerable chunk of the cars value - laughable...

I've commented on s9s on your thread too btw.

I'd seriously consider ringing up JZM and getting a quote for the steel alcon setup, but make sure you get proper info about whether they will rattle as that would drive me nuts on a road car. They'll last miles longer and you'll only need the cheaper rotors come replacement time...

[DanH]

p4lny said:

Thanks Dan The only other issue is if fitting steels would affect re-sale value or not? On one note the Steels are miles better, last longer and are without question more servicable in terms of price but you just know whats going to happen come trade in time............... Well it hasnt got pccb Sir and thay are 10k to replace and it is a large chunk of the cars value Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.... So ill offer Ya

Depends if they even pay that much attention! Box them for that eventuality I guess.

The first few GT2s shipped with steels anyway...

[GuyR]

p4lny said:

Thanks Dan The only other issue is if fitting steels would affect re-sale value or not? On one note the Steels are miles better, last longer and are without question more servicable in terms of price but you just know whats going to happen come trade in time............... Well it hasnt got pccb Sir and thay are 10k to replace and it is a large chunk of the cars value Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.... So ill offer Ya

An OPC will get funny about lack of PCCB, but then they are usually the worst bidfer anyway, better to sell privately or to an Independent dealer who will not care.

[PEVO]

Adam B said:

I wouldn't buy a PCCB car w/o a separate OPC letter clearly stating they are covered from pitting / cracks unless it has been tracked (and they have to prove that it has) bad that this was not spotted on the 111 check

OPC's tend to miss a lot of things on their 111 point checks - like wether the wheelnuts have been fully torqued or not . . . apparently they don't take the wheels off for the inspections (!!!) so chances are they wouldn't have picked up on the pitting on the brake discs.

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=217186&f=48&h=0

The OPC in my case is part of the same (Dick Lovett) chain. I've had to take my fight to the MD, who in my case has been totally unhelpful. I fear you may have to go the same way.

I wouldn't stand for being fobbed off. Discs should last for more than 16,000 miles, unless they have been seriously abused. Normal discs are normally changed every 3 pad changes, so try and find out how many pad changes the car has had in it's life. This may help you prove that the pitting has occurred for reasons other than wear and tear.

My advice would be to get a copy of their 111 point inspection report asap so you know exactly what has been checked and what has not.

I really feel for you, because your pride and joy has become a focus of a dispute now - definately not what you thought would happen. You like me probably bought your car thinking anything untoward would be sorted out promptly and efficiently - It's made me realise the reason why PGB make so much profit is because they screw their customers every way they can. Don't let them get away with this!!!

PEVO

[DanH]

Adam B said:

I wouldn't buy a PCCB car w/o a separate OPC letter clearly stating they are covered from pitting / cracks unless it has been tracked (and they have to prove that it has) bad that this was not spotted on the 111 check

I asked for such a letter when I bought mine. They referred it to Porsche GB who stated they would make no such guarantee.

[SPB2]

i bought a 2003 PCCB brochure from ebay. 2003 was the year i purchased my car, and i was hoping there would be some reference to the disks long life. However, it states in this brochure they were not desgned for track use. If there ever was a cliam of durability on track it must have already been changed by this point. Very 1984 if you know what i mean.

Although, in the case of the CGT, the follwing text is pulled from the Porsche website:

"PCCB helps minimise braking distances in even the most extreme road and track scenarios"

Though it makes no claim for them lasting any longer

[Paul Y]

I tracked my car for 18 months with the ceramics, followed the advice from Porsche and ensured that pretty much after every track event it went back to them for a check over.

The poor old Wedgwoods finally gave up the ghost at about the 11K mark and were replaced with minimal fuss.

The trick here, IMHO, is not to shout from the roof tops. Be clear and concise in your demands and only speak to the people that have the power to make a desision.

When you have got the disks replaced, if you are to do any track work, upgrade to the Alcon or Brembo and keep the Wedgewoods in the garage for the next owner.

P.

[bjwoods]

They 'have' to sort this out... You've only had it six weeks and a few hundred miles..

IF it is as Bad as they say, it MUST have been present when you bought the car... is it sales of goods act, or something else that assumes fault present at time of sale, within 6 month of purchase, and/or dealer would have to prove otherwise....

Bad PR..

I would push for replacements, of what you actually bought...

B

[johnfm]

[redacted]

[henry-f]

Just a small point of order here chaps. Andy didn`t buy the car from Reading, he bought it privately? Reading sold the car 6 months ago. Andy has had it 6 weeks, the chap he bought it off drove it for 5 months or so.

Once again it`s got nothing to do with how many miles the car`s done, it`s about how hard the brakes have been used, and also how they`ve been treated. A relation of mine who shall remain nameless so as not to embarass my brother Tom had a set of brand new discs and pads fitted to his 964 in time for his first ever track day some years ago. 45 minutes into the day he came thundering into the pit lane with...... warped discs. Operator error.

My 2001 GT3 has done approx 21,000 kms now and this year alone we`ve probably fitted 3 sets of standard discs and 2 sets of floating jobbies. Granted 50-60 hours of racing and around 50 hours of testing do give them a good run for their money but the fact is you can not guarantee to Porsche that the car`s brakes haven`t been in the near room to death since it left Reading.

Ceramic brakes may at some stage have been marketed as everlasting but that has long since stopped. Certainly they haven`t been thus marketed within the last 6 or 7 weeks, the time Andy has owned the car.

As has been said, forget the legal route you`re on a hiding to nothing. Be nice, smile and play to their good nature. And so presumably don`t hold your breath !

Henry

>> Edited by henry-f on Monday 21st November 14:43

[bjwoods]

bit naughty if full story not told, depends if warranty transferable, and a bit of goodwill.

B

[GuyR]

No-one has ever got a set of PCCBs from Porsche GB under Warranty. Brakes are specifically excluded as consumables and if they are heavily damaged they are defined by Porsche GB as being misused, since they will last a very long time indeed on normal road-driving.

There are several people who have had PCCBs replaced by Porsche GB as a goodwill gesture, but this depends on the circumstances and the people concerned (including myself) had adopted a very firm, but very polite stance with the right people.

Frankly though as I've said on other forums I see little point in fighting for another set of PCCBs, which will also subsequently fail (as my 2nd set have and my rears have also now) unless the car is only to be driven moderately on roads in future.

Guy

[bennno]

p4lny said:

Hiya Here's the scenario boys, hope you have a chair Cars dropped off to Porsche readding on Tuesday from where it was purchased by its previous owner back in June for a few warranty issue's, including pitting to my front pccb. It’s a 2002 model with 16200 miles, originally 15700 when I bought it 6 weeks ago. Speak to a rather friendly chap called Darren about noon on Thursday who "sadly" notifies me that there warranty department won’t cover it as it looks as though it has either been tracked or "excessively used" on the road. Obviously not wanting to put up with this bulls***t I explain that (along with every other argument) the car was bought from them back in June by its previous owner and please tell me if. 1. Judging by the bodywork and other components does the car look like its been tracked and if so please prove this. 2. How can you say that the brakes have had excessive road use on a car this age, If your selling of a car of this pedigree it should be sold with brakes that are more than up to reflecting the cars performance along with a serviceable life of (now how did Porsche put it when released ?) Oh yes "over 100'000 miles. Therefore the brakes on my car must indeed be covered under warranty as lasted nowhere this. Darren then informs that he'll give Porsche UK a call and get them to phone me. Argue everything under the sun with them for about another 30 mins getting nowhere other than a letter confirming what I have been told and why the wa***rs wont cover. Im due to pick the car up tomorrow and return there boxster s courtesy car, Am I within my legal right to keep there courtesy car untill they sort it as I deem mine unsafe??. And does anyone know a good solicitor that I can get some info from . Thanks for all your time in reading this. Regards Andy

You didnt buy it directly from Porsche Reading so they are under no obligation to resolve this for you legally.

The car is outside of the nominal 90 day 'fault present upon delivery'legislation which would have existed for the previous owner.

You should have had the car inspected at the time of sale as this fault was potentially present, but buyer beware is the principle of used car purchase.

Bear in mind also that this is an almost 4 year old car and brake disks are classified as wear and tear items. How do you know it wasnt tracked prior to your 6 weeks of ownership.

Bennno

[DanH]

Benno, the 'wasn't tracked' aspect has to be the wrong way to tackle this. Surely the claims in the original brochure are the only real chance.

[Adam B]

I obviously misread this - thought you bought direct from OPC.

As not I don't reckon you have a leg to stand on - can't really blame the OPC as the guy in between may have abused them

did YOU get a 111 check done before buying from the previous owner? I would get any PCCB equipped car to get a thorough brake check at an OPC prior to buying so at least you'd have some chance of come back.

[softinthehead]

p4lny said:

. Obviously not wanting to put up with this bulls***t I explain that (along with every other argument) the car was bought from them back in June by its previous owner and please tell me if. 1. Judging by the bodywork and other components does the car look like its been tracked and if so please prove this. 2. How can you say that the brakes have had excessive road use on a car this age, If your selling of a car of this pedigree it should be sold with brakes that are more than up to reflecting the cars performance along with a serviceable life of (now how did Porsche put it when released ?) Oh yes "over 100'000 miles. Therefore the brakes on my car must indeed be covered under warranty as lasted nowhere this.

sorry Andy but I think youre on a hiding to nothing here.
1. looking at the bodywork wont tell you if its been tracked, only if its been slammed into a barrier. looking at the brakes may tell you this, but you (presumably) didnt do this at time of sale (nor did the OPC)
2. nor can you tell yes or no if the car has had excessive use.
3. the last they OPC saw of the car was 6 months ago.

Hate to say it, but I'm with the OPC here. asking them to take responsibility, financial or moral, for what some bloke has been doing with yo0ur car in the last 6 months is just not fair. if you have issues, its with the private seller, not with them.

[pm99]

Surely if Porsche sold this car saying the ceramic breaks were fine for all types of use etc....then that should hold for the life of the car.

If that claim was maid by porsche when this actual car was sold new then surely they can't just turn round and change their mind later just because they screwed up.

The breaks were designed to last ages in all conditions/uses...the fact they don't means they have a fault.

Strange that they can get away with this.

They made the original claim...they should stand by that claim for all cars sold until they retracted that claim.

The prupos eof thos ebreaks was to last for ages...they obviously didnt suit that purpose....so do not comply with the sale of goods act.

All in a perfect world of course.