Started, high tickover, wet exhausts, no4 header glowing red

[victormeldrew]

I think its broke.

I had a problem with th engine mount, which led to coolant loss etc. See Flooded to the point of hydraulic lock.

Engine mount now replaced, and I got a new set of plugs. Whacked them in (what a pain) and she started up straight away; but something wasn't right.

First, very high tickover - 2000rpm.
Second, floods of water out of the pipes. Black, sooty water (not fuel, definately water.)
Third, after running for a couple of minutes, the header on no 4 cylinder was glowing red. Some of the others were starting to glow as well, but no 4 was REALLY hot. Red going on yellow.
Fourth, temp repair on swirl tank neck was holding fine, but hoses were very solid, the top pipe to the swirl tank you can normally squeeze, but it was solid as a rock with the engine running.

Blown head gasket? Broken rings? There is a quite loud ticking on that side. Do the symptoms sound familiar to anyone?

Please?

>> I posted this to the Griff forum again by mistake (Doh!) - its a Chim 500. Sorry!

>> Edited by victormeldrew on Tuesday 22 November 18:57

[GreenV8S]

Flood of water out of the exhaust pipes you mean? Given the history, I'd say it's very likely indeed to be HGF, and if you're unlucky it's something more serious such as a cracked head.

[victormeldrew]

GreenV8S said:

Flood of water out of the exhaust pipes you mean? Given the history, I'd say it's very likely indeed to be HGF, and if you're unlucky it's something more serious such as a cracked head.

It does look that way. Why would it run so hot though? And the high tickover?

[mongoose]

Injector sticking open?Could you swap the injector on the glowing header cylinder with another one to see what happens?I would have thought that if one cylinder is burning more fuel it might make the header hotter and also possibly increase the idle speed?

[victormeldrew]

mongoose said:

Injector sticking open?Could you swap the injector on the glowing header cylinder with another one to see what happens?I would have thought that if one cylinder is burning more fuel it might make the header hotter and also possibly increase the idle speed?

I'll give that a try ... I'll be back.

[v8 racing]

Hi Victor, did the water clear up from the exhaust after running for a while as this time of year due to condensation you can get quite a bit coming out the exhaust, to be totaly honest though although you dont want to hear it i would be guessing toward a liner that is leaking, when it previously locked this could have been the reason, and now you mention you have a rattle and no4 is running much hotter my guesses is that you have bent a rod, it is very easy to bend rods beleive it or not, i would take all the plugs out spin it over and see if any water comes out the plug holes before running it again, if all the exhaust was glowing it could just be a case of being too retarted and the fuel is burning in the exhaust as opposed to the engine

[victormeldrew]

I tried disconnecting the injectors on 2 and 4; apart from sounding a bit sick it made no difference to the racing. Obviously no 4's header didn't get hot this time though.

I reconnected the injectors, check the dizzy cap to make sure that was located properly, started her up, and within seconds no 4 header started to glow.

Looks like there will be a TVR up for spare or repair shortly - I'm skint, I already have an Audi declared SORN bacause I can't afford to get that fixed or insured, and I don't have the money to get this fixed. I need a beer.

[v8 racing]

Hey victot keep your chin up m8, if it does turn out to be a rod or even a liner it can be sorted without having to pay the national debt

>> Edited by v8 racing on Tuesday 22 November 21:21

[Guillotine]

could have bent,bust,jammed an outlet valve on hydr lock, explosion exiting the cylinder causing heat.

not too bad if it hasn't damaged piston/road etc.


good luck
andy

[victormeldrew]

OK, no point moping about it!

Suggestions for a good engine shop in the Midlands welcomed! I'm in Rugby, and obviously the car is going to have to be trailered.

In the mainwhile I will:
remove all the plugs
disconnect the injectors
turn her over to check for fluids
check the dizzy cap again (but it is located on its peg, double checked already)

I can't see how to get the injectors out. I tried removing the four nuts holding the fuel rail on, but couldn't budge it to get at the injectors. When I removed the cables from the injectors I did note that the injector on no 2 was damp inside - there was a lot of fluid in the engine bay when the swirl tank neck was punctured. It was no 2 that had the petrol in it, so I'd like to check that's working OK. Anyone have any tips on getting them out?

One thing is for sure, there is head gasket failure at least. The coolant system is being instantly pressurised, and unfortunately this has burst the alloy rad - its bubbling and whistling as soon as the engine turns over. I guess I'm not going to know if its any worse than a blown gasket until the top end is stripped. Fingers crossed that when it hydraulic'ed the gasket was the weak link that gave, rather than a rod, valve or rings.

I reckon the sequence of events has been:
- The engine mount gave way at some point
- With excessive engine movement the pulley ate through the swirl tank neck
- When the neck punctured the engine bay got a steam bath
- I limped home with the car and let it cool off
- The steam having already got places that water shouldn't
- I tried to restart the engine
- The injector on No 2 (and possible others) shorted open and seriously flooded it
- It hydraulic'ed as the cylinder(s) filled with fuel
- As it did so the pressure blew out the gasket
- I repaired the damage to the swirl tank, cleaned out the engine, fitted new plugs
- The engine started and pressurised the coolant system; the rad split as a result.

I'm going to have to dig deep to get this sorted, and if the bill gets major then it looks like the car will have to go to pay me back - unless anyone wants to make an offer for it sold as seen?

Keep fingers crossed for me guys (and gals), I'll be gutted if I lose her after ten years.

[GreenV8S]

I suspect the actual order was that the engine suffered massive overheating in the heads and the head gasket failed during or shortly after the drive home.

[victormeldrew]

Cheers Quinny. I'm away tomorrow (borrowing the missus A2!) but I'll give that a go on Thursday.

I'll see how it goes, but I'm thinking I might pop the heads anyway. I'll order some gaskets tomorrow just on case. I might as well find bite the bullet and find out how much damage there is myself.

[victormeldrew]

Quinny said:

Must admit Pete, That does sound like a very likely senario. They will soon overheat if there's no water in them and they'll soon lose all their water with a great big hole in the system. Victor, this cold just be a case of head skim, and new gaskets, or even if you needed new heads, you could use the oportunity to upgrade (stage 3)

In for a penny eh? Maybe TVR Power would be the place to take it then!

Actually, despite the clouds of steam, there was still quite a lot of coolant in the system. It only took a couple of pints to fill again. Its fair to say though that with it venting it probably wasn't doing much cooling .

[red griff 500]

It does sound like some reasonably major damage has occured, however, your mention of black sooty water exiting the exhaust... I had this coming out of my exhaust in large quantities after a coil failure, and it continued even when I fitted a new coil. The thing that cured it was re-setting the ECU. The ECU had got all screwed up and was just messing everything up. This may sound like a bizarre thing, but there's just a tiny chance that a screwed up ECU could be causing this. Although the chances are unlikely, it's worth trying....

[siwes]

Really the only place to take your car is TVR power its right on your door-step it does sound as if you have dropped an exhaust valve, combustion is taking place in the exhaust manifold , whatever you do , do not run or try to crank your engine anymore, you could cause even more damage.
as long as there is no damage to a piston or liner then it might not be too bad but let the experts look at it
Si

[victormeldrew]

Status report!

I have stripped down as far as removing the valley gasket. I don't have a socket to fit the rocker cover torx screws, so I'm a bit stuck now until tomorrow. I can't seem to get the manifolds off either - is it humanly possible to get to those bolts?

Some observations.

• I was shocked by the amount of crap inside the plenum chamber when removed. It is about 1cm thick in black gunge in there, but the most shocking thing was two large chunks of bodywork sitting inside there. I was expecting this to be a "clean area". I guess at least I now have an idea of why my throttle jammed open a while ago. No idea where the gunge is from though.

• Mayo - tons of it. The entire inside of the engine is covered in yellow mayonnaisse. No question about head gasket failure thats for sure.

[siwes]

You really need to get under the car and remove the starter motor for access to the manifold bolts on the off side its makes it possible on the near side all the manifold bolts can be accessed from the top bit of a struggle but it can be done
the rocker bolts are 8 mm 12 point star long reach socker draper do a nice one
good luck

[victormeldrew]

siwes said:

You really need to get under the car and remove the starter motor for access to the manifold bolts on the off side its makes it possible on the near side all the manifold bolts can be accessed from the top bit of a struggle but it can be done the rocker bolts are 8 mm 12 point star long reach socker draper do a nice one good luck

Yes, I did have to get her jacked up and get underneath, and in the end I removed the engine mount and jacked the engine up to get clearance. Still a pig of a job, but with an assortment of spanners and sockets it came off eventually - to reveal problem no 1, the exhaust gasket has been blowing on no 2 cylinder. Its taken me 3 hours to get the manifold off!

Now for the head - but I can't shift the head bolts. I've tried a 3ft extendable breaker bar that I have for removing wheels nuts - no joy. I can't see how I'm going to get enough leverage to shift them - should they be this tight?

Oh yes, the rocker bolts. I got a long reach 8mm 12 point socket, 3/8 drive, from Halfords; thanks!

>> Edited by victormeldrew on Friday 25th November 18:51

[v8 racing]

The head bolts will be faily tight but you should easily do it with a 3 foot bar, stand the opposite side of the car to the head your doing and pull the towards yourself it is far easier than trying to push the bar, the only one you will struggle with is the drivers side lower bolt they are a real pain, to be totaly honest it is far easier to pull the engine out rather than tackle this job in the car

[victormeldrew]

v8 racing said:

The head bolts will be faily tight but you should easily do it with a 3 foot bar, stand the opposite side of the car to the head your doing and pull the towards yourself it is far easier than trying to push the bar, the only one you will struggle with is the drivers side lower bolt they are a real pain, to be totaly honest it is far easier to pull the engine out rather than tackle this job in the car

Far easier if you have a suitable hoist, yes! I figured that last one would be a problem. I did try from the other side, but was a bit concerned about the socket slipping. I'll try getting someone to help!

If anyone has a engine hoist they'd care to lend me for a couple of weeks it'd be appreciated!