S2 111S suspension or 135R engine ?
Discussion
I have an S2 111S and whilst happy (ish, cant afford more) with the power would like an even flatter experience with more tun in and less understeer. Plans have priced an upgrade to Nitron/ARB/OZ/A048 inc setup at say £3.5k
But with new Rover 160 VVC units going cheep, should I have infact bought a 135R to rip 'n replace the engine for a couple of grand ?
On standby to kick self for apalling planning.
But with new Rover 160 VVC units going cheep, should I have infact bought a 135R to rip 'n replace the engine for a couple of grand ?
On standby to kick self for apalling planning.
Hans - at this stage selling and then rebuying a 135R might cost you more. Prices are down at the moment and cars not shifting because of the winter. There a good nick 111s S2's going for 15-16K! (heartbreaking) Obviously in the spring, prices will firm up.
Talk to Plans motorsport - £1200 for OZ's with tyres 048s (black with a yellow rim). Andy walsh actually fits 048's on his standard rims and says it makes no difference to handling vs the wider OZ rim - just looks odd. Nitrons are way better than the LSS on the 135R in terms of adjustability and road manners. Lots of bounce on bumpy roads on LSS. You use yours mostly for track though? In that case LSS might be an option - 2nd hand off a 135R with low milage ~ £400. Nitrons were £840 from eliseparts ex VAT. That might work out as more like 2.5K or even under 2K if you shop around and go LSS. The difference in power of the 135 vs VVC is probably not worth an engine change. Standard engine and car 135R is lighter than the 111s and performance in a straight line not really that different (power to weight near identical). (I nearly bought a 135R, but with my lack of talent, opted for the more road friendly 111s) Also, the 135R has more potential for tuning - different cams and a re-port will take power to ~ 170bhp. You have a great car that you have looked after - do you really want to part with it?
The other thing is, you can do it in incriments - suspension first, then 048's on standard rims (if you believe walshy) and then oz's and transfer the tyres.
The other odd thing is than non - lotus OZ's in the same style / size (but wrong fit) are under £500. The lotus association doubles the price!
>> Edited by shangani on Wednesday 23 November 09:38
Talk to Plans motorsport - £1200 for OZ's with tyres 048s (black with a yellow rim). Andy walsh actually fits 048's on his standard rims and says it makes no difference to handling vs the wider OZ rim - just looks odd. Nitrons are way better than the LSS on the 135R in terms of adjustability and road manners. Lots of bounce on bumpy roads on LSS. You use yours mostly for track though? In that case LSS might be an option - 2nd hand off a 135R with low milage ~ £400. Nitrons were £840 from eliseparts ex VAT. That might work out as more like 2.5K or even under 2K if you shop around and go LSS. The difference in power of the 135 vs VVC is probably not worth an engine change. Standard engine and car 135R is lighter than the 111s and performance in a straight line not really that different (power to weight near identical). (I nearly bought a 135R, but with my lack of talent, opted for the more road friendly 111s) Also, the 135R has more potential for tuning - different cams and a re-port will take power to ~ 170bhp. You have a great car that you have looked after - do you really want to part with it?
The other thing is, you can do it in incriments - suspension first, then 048's on standard rims (if you believe walshy) and then oz's and transfer the tyres.
The other odd thing is than non - lotus OZ's in the same style / size (but wrong fit) are under £500. The lotus association doubles the price!
>> Edited by shangani on Wednesday 23 November 09:38
bher said:
Andy walsh actually fits 048's on his standard rims and says it makes no difference to handling vs the wider OZ rim - just looks odd.
You are the second to said that. Which standard rims are you talking about? 111R ones??
Thanks
That is VERY interesting if true!
111r rims and 111s rims (front) are both 16 inch 5.5J (6.5J for the OZ's) they differ only in offset etc. Andy used 195 tyres on the front of his 111s. It might be worth asking Andy directly on seloc what his feeling is on this, but I am going by a face to face conversation I had with him in October. He reckoned the OZ story was just lotus trying to make money selling rims etc. It would be interesting if a manufacturer of alloys would make a lotus specific alloy for a competitive price. The OZ's for the lotus are DOUBLE the price of similar non-lotus OZ's. OZ themselves cannot sell directly to the public - they have an undertaking to only sell to lotus!
>> Edited by shangani on Wednesday 23 November 11:15
>> Edited by shangani on Wednesday 23 November 11:15
shangani said:
PS are you posting "driving Miss Daisy?"
Petrolted seems to have lost the other uploads so they are now on video.google.com waiting for approval.
shangani said:
Talk to Plans motorsport
Yes it was Graham at Plans who helped me spec and price the upgrade package and stages.
shangani said:
Andy walsh actually fits 048's on his standard rims
Whilst I dont understand the technical mumbo-jumbo, folks who's experience and technical understanding I trust (whilst not trying to sell me stuff) have advised me that putting 195 rubber on 175 rim is not a great idea using terms like "bead seat diameter" and "vertical tyre wall". Hey maybe its OK if your a driving god ...
I'm not looking to swap my car, just taking some time to reflect that I may not have made to most economic original decision for where I want to take my Lotus driving experience. Yes I'm going to have to lay out some wedge but am also looking to learn and share from the experience.
shangani said:
111r rims and 111s rims (front) are both 16 inch 5.5J (6.5J for the OZ's) they differ only in offset etc. Andy used 195 tyres on the front of his 111s. It might be worth asking Andy directly on seloc what his feeling is on this, but I am going by a face to face conversation I had with him in October. He reckoned the OZ story was just lotus trying to make money selling rims etc. It would be interesting if a manufacturer of alloys would make a lotus specific alloy for a competitive price. The OZ's for the lotus are DOUBLE the price of similar non-lotus OZ's. OZ themselves cannot sell directly to the public - they have an undertaking to only sell to lotus!
Compomotive MOs fit the S1 - not sure which measurements are different on the S2
For sharper turn-in you could try a more aggressive geo and go from there. If you still gte understeer, try wider front tyres (not neccesarily 48s or smilar) and that should calm things down a bit.
I had originally spoken to plans who quoted me the same sort of money as you, but then when I was down there in person moaning about the cost, they added that the OZ's which were normally over a grand without tyres, could be had on this "deal" where there was yellow trim on the black, and worked out about £500 cheaper with the tyres (they were made for a Japanese spec model and they have loads left.)
Try get Andy Walsh on the topic on Seloc - though as you say he is a bit of a driving god. He has been really helpful with tyre choices in the past and gives a lot of info in areas that you wouldn't normally think of - eg braking feel under threshold braking etc.
Actually I am sort of hoping to give you crummy advice to slow you down - though if I greased your tyres you would still be quicker than me!
I will also keep an eye out for 2nd hand wheels if they come up.
Try get Andy Walsh on the topic on Seloc - though as you say he is a bit of a driving god. He has been really helpful with tyre choices in the past and gives a lot of info in areas that you wouldn't normally think of - eg braking feel under threshold braking etc.
Actually I am sort of hoping to give you crummy advice to slow you down - though if I greased your tyres you would still be quicker than me!
I will also keep an eye out for 2nd hand wheels if they come up.Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff