Wednesday 23rd November 2005

Porsche plots Panamera GT

Two-door coupé at planning stage

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Porsche Panamera: is a shortened version the new 911?

A GT is on the cards from Porsche, if a report in this week's Autocar comes true. Making a sixth model line, the new performance GT, which will compete with the likes of the Bentley GT Continental and the Ferrari Scaglietti 612, is effectively the new 928.

It's unlikely to appear before 2010, however, and is only at the planning stage so far. It was hinted at by Porsche boss Wendelin Wiedeking, who told the magazine that there were other niches which Porsche could fill. It might be called the Panamera GT.

Based on the underpinnings in the design stage for the next rev of the Cayenne, the car would be front-engined and have either four or rear-wheel drive as options. It'll be a shortened, two-door version of the Panamera, speculated Autocar -- although that begins to sound like a 911 with the engine at the front.

Hybrid transmission and a petrol-fuelled V8 are likely, although a V6 from the next Cayenne is a possibility. It being such early days, there's no certainty on prices but it'd have to slot in around 911 Turbo money, close to 100k, with the V6 version somewhat below that.

One slightly scary thought: if the Panamera is a stretched, four-door 911, is a shorter, two-door Panamera a candidate for the 911's final replacement?

[GTRene]

Here are some more pics from that stresed 911
www.autoblog.nl/archive/2005/03/13/porsche_panamera_in_2009

For a fourdoor it looks??hmm I would not buy one, but I gues plenty people will just as they did with the Cayenne, also a non sportcar from a sportcar brence? but sells good.

René

[NickFRP]

RX8??

[Hendry]

They have tried and failed once before to replace the 911 with a front engined car, I doubt they'll do it again. They'll let the 911 run and slot this above as a true long distance tourer.

People will buy it of course. You could slap a Porsche badge on a Rover 45 and people would but it.

[agoogy]

I think the scariest thought is that PH thinks the Panamera is a stretched 4 door 911 (!)... isn't the 911 a 2 door, evolutionary, rear engined, compact master class in performance dynamics and aesthetic subtlety?....

The Panamera from what I can tell is 4 door, front engined, brand new sports cruiser for people who care about their friends or have a family...
A Panamera GT would be the 2 door version of that... like the 928 which although was supposed to replace the 911 was a TOTALLY different beast...

I think PH is getting caught up in the sad and over inflated argument that Porsche's design cues are over used...

The Panamera and any version of it thereof is very welcome as far as I'm concerned... perhaps in time Porsche won't feel the need to produce an SUV.... although again, any method by which they can remain and independant family business whilst helping to support German engineering single handidly (VW...)is also fine by me...

[dinkel]

Just place the wheels a bit to both ends and that's it . . . And tell me what's wrong with the 928s shape . . .

[MILF]

What a surprise, yet another "new" Porsche which looks just like a 911 :

Cayenne : 911 on stilts.
Boxster : cheaper 911.
Caymen : cheaper 911 with an ugly rear.
Carrera GT : a longer, lower 911.
911 : evolution of a 40 year old design theme.

My God, the design studio over there must be thronged with a 1001 variations on a 911 theme. Have they never heard of progress ?

[Andrew D]

MILF said:

What a surprise, yet another "new" Porsche which looks just like a 911

Having spent 40 years creating a catalogue of styling queues that are synonymous with the word Porsche, I think it's the point that all the models look similar without being the same.

And I think the Carrera GT is a little bit more than a longer, lower 911.

The article said:

although that begins to sound like a 911 with the engine at the front.

...so not at all like a 911 then; the rear engined layout being the defining characteristic of the 911.

Having built up it's image over 40 years, making it the most famous sports car (model, not marque) in the world, Porsche could put a Carrera badge and a £60k price tag on a go-kart and still sell them by the thousand. The 911 won't be killed off.

[mikeyboy]

Lets face it, the dynamics of a 911 are because of the engineers at porsche not because of the car's inherent rightness. Just because it looks similar and has the same engine lay-out doesn't make the 997 the same car as the first 911 and perhaps its about time we let Porsche engineers show us what they can do with the supposedly "right" lay-out of a sports car without having to do brilliant things with the rear engine lay-out. Apparently they are slightly frustrated that they couldn't do so with the Cayman.

If the Panamerica GT does turn out to be the "new 911" then Porsche have to be brave and cancel the "old 911." it won't kill them (they make more money from the Cayenne) and not doing so was what made the 928 only a partial success/failure.

[dezza87]

Why cant Porsche just bring out a new car that doesnt look the same as every model. Porsche designers must have the easiest job in the world. Right we have to think of a new model design any ideas? mmmm... I know lets change the headlights?... brillant idea thats our new model. Job done.

[johnjr]

Finally porsche has given us a replacement for the 928.

Just so happens to be based on the 911 in some respects.

But it is the first front engined car in a while that porsche hwave given us.

Looks nice too....just needs performance and price tag to go with it!

[silver993tt]

mikeyboy said:

If the Panamerica GT does turn out to be the "new 911" then Porsche have to be brave and cancel the "old 911." it won't kill them (they make more money from the Cayenne) and not doing so was what made the 928 only a partial success/failure.

...but just think of the residuals on the 911s that are left after they drop it

[mikeyboy]

Good point about the residuals, maybe my bank manager will believe me when I tell him a new 997 turbo will be an investment and let me have a preferential rate!

[rob05]

I think this is a smart move and the car will be a very good seller.
Then again how many versions? GT,GTS,GTS TURBO etc,maybe even a pleb spec priced in between the cayman and the 911!
Maybe they should buy the mini and badge that up as well.

[bertie]

The artist impression looks nice, very 612 Scaglietti!
The autoblog computer pictures however are horrible!

>> Edited by bertie on Wednesday 23 November 14:56

[errek72]

rob05 said:

Maybe they should buy the mini and badge that up as well.

Or the "even newer beetle". How about "Tatra special".

[bunglist]

agoogy said:

I think the scariest thought is that PH thinks the Panamera is a stretched 4 door 911 (!)... isn't the 911 a 2 door, evolutionary, rear engined, compact master class in performance dynamics and aesthetic subtlety?.... The Panamera from what I can tell is 4 door, front engined, brand new sports cruiser for people who care about their friends or have a family... A Panamera GT would be the 2 door version of that... like the 928 which although was supposed to replace the 911 was a TOTALLY different beast... I think PH is getting caught up in the sad and over inflated argument that Porsche's design cues are over used... The Panamera and any version of it thereof is very welcome as far as I'm concerned... perhaps in time Porsche won't feel the need to produce an SUV.... although again, any method by which they can remain and independant family business whilst helping to support German engineering single handidly (VW...)is also fine by me...

Well if they made each of their cars look slightly different rather than being pretty much exactly the same but with a different number, then the design team at porsche may get some credit for once, but at the moment they do not deserve it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thom]

Can't wait to see it, although I'm afraid it will certainly end up looking like a bloody "911" or whatever they call it these days ...

[GTRene]

los angeles said:

BMW have steadly encroached on Porsche territory so Porsche was bound to create a four-door sports saloon as soon as they had the money to do it. And yes, I'd by a Porsche saloon quicker than I'd buy a BMW. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I'd buy a BMW.

your not sure to buy a BMW? what do you think about this new Hartge H50 V10 550hp 3-series?



René

[errek72]

I don't care how many horsepower that BMW thing has, I wouldn't want to be seen in it even if I would get paid to do so.
A scorpio has more style than that thing.

[speedy_thrills]

MILF said:

My God, the design studio over there must be thronged with a 1001 variations on a 911 theme. Have they never heard of progress ?

Some of us think the very same thing about AM’s products that all look like they morphed from the previous car.

People say they should change the style but surely it’s a bit of an icon now, marmite wouldn’t change the shape of their jars after all and any previous time Porsche have tried to create a car that didn’t keep the classic looks it hasn’t worked out very well. Also they have done so much aerodynamic work on it now that is really quite a slippery beast. I’m surprised Porsche haven’t gone for the flat 8 engine coming in the next generation 911 (allegedly).

The Cayman was inevitable really because the 911 range has moved up-market over the years thanks to their tireless efforts at refining the car, remember the first one had a 2 liter engine and I think the smallest one now is a 3.6. It would be good to see a low capacity Porsche with a 2+2 seating arrangement though to compliment the Panamera. Porsche seem to have no problem moving cars off the showroom floor (Except for the steel spring Cayenne things a while ago, that was mainly production issues though).

To be honest I think the next line of Porsche cars should look very similar to the existing ones, it’s the engineering underneath that counts and not how flashy it looks (Indeed I think many customers quite like the sedate and refined looks). They have the basic formula for a very successful car and if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.