Racelogic Traction Control for GT2 in Spain
Discussion
Raining in Spain and missing my gt2 back in uk so was sitting here reading a few posts. Earlier I was driving back from the office here sliding everywhere as they seem to have roads made of glass, when it rains it is literally almost impossible to go round roundabouts even at 15 mph without chronic understeer even in a 330 BMW with full traction control on!
Whilst on here I saw a post where Domster mentioned Racelogic traction control. Now before all of you shout woose and use your right foot I have met a few of you this year at trackdays in the gt2 and I hope that having spend literally hours and hours and hours driving safely round race tracks sometimes in the wet and not having spun it that I do have a modicum of ability BUT if I can't sell the thing ( pls see my reply on the 996 TT prices rising thread earlier) then I may bring it over here for the winter and then I have to say driving it here in the wet with no TC is frankly a no go option.
For those of you that may not have driven here in the wet you can literally spin the slowest old crate as is liking driving on ice, it is to do with the compacting of the dust granules blah blah and the amount of glass they use so someone said.
So is Racelogic traction control an option? as can be left off but in extreme circumstances and knowing how close the spanish tailgate even in the wet, bless em, I can switch it on and protect my beloved car??
Advice and probably a slating please!!
Whilst on here I saw a post where Domster mentioned Racelogic traction control. Now before all of you shout woose and use your right foot I have met a few of you this year at trackdays in the gt2 and I hope that having spend literally hours and hours and hours driving safely round race tracks sometimes in the wet and not having spun it that I do have a modicum of ability BUT if I can't sell the thing ( pls see my reply on the 996 TT prices rising thread earlier) then I may bring it over here for the winter and then I have to say driving it here in the wet with no TC is frankly a no go option.
For those of you that may not have driven here in the wet you can literally spin the slowest old crate as is liking driving on ice, it is to do with the compacting of the dust granules blah blah and the amount of glass they use so someone said.
So is Racelogic traction control an option? as can be left off but in extreme circumstances and knowing how close the spanish tailgate even in the wet, bless em, I can switch it on and protect my beloved car??
Advice and probably a slating please!!
A colleague has, or rather had, the racelogic on his twin turbo supra until he sold it recently. Fully adjustable from completely off to a setting that won't even let the turbos spool up. I believe you can also set your own settings on some of the systems. AFAIK it piggybacks off the ABS system to detect wheelspin.
How does it work? Is it cutting ignition or fueling? Either seems a bit dodgey to me. With ignition you are dumping unburnt petrol through the cats, with fueling, you are running lean...
Agree about Spanish roads, they are really slippy, but if its understeer on a roundabout TCS isn't going to help is it?
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 25th November 00:20
Agree about Spanish roads, they are really slippy, but if its understeer on a roundabout TCS isn't going to help is it?
>> Edited by DanH on Friday 25th November 00:20
DanH said:
How does it work? Is it cutting ignition or fueling? Either seems a bit dodgey to me. With fueling you are dumping unburnt petrol through the cats, with fueling, you are running lean...
Agree about Spanish roads, they are really slippy, but if its understeer on a roundabout TCS isn't going to help is it?
The RaceLogic system gas a walking cut so no one cylinder will suffer from excessive bore wash or overheating. In any case unless you expect to keep the throttle to the floor and hold it in heavy cut, the amount of fuel or ignitin cut you will need should be very small. It's almost like a teaching aid, as you feel the engine start to hesitate you know to back off the throttle.
Dan
It seems a very advanced system, I was very concerned when i first heard about it but this is one of their FAQ answers
Q:- I am concerned that the system cuts fuel, and I have a highly modified turbo engine, which if it runs lean will cause instant damage. How safe is the Racelogic system on these types of engine?
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
Their website is www.racelogic.co.uk and when you get past the first page which from a marketing point of view is their weakest I thought it all starts getting very professional and loads of techie stuff and graphs and a decent FAQ section.
I know obviously the TC won't help understeer it was just mentioned to show how slippy the roads are and how very easily with 462 bhp I got prob get some very easy 180 oversteer spins happening. My biggest concern is having to pul out of the stupid non existant slip roads into 120kmp traffic that doesnt move over, at the moment in the mornings I have to often stick the 330 in manuel mode and just redline in first and second to not get rammed senseless. Not that I will commute in the GT2 but you get the picture! All a bit different from the leafy lanes of Sussex.
It seems a very advanced system, I was very concerned when i first heard about it but this is one of their FAQ answers
Q:- I am concerned that the system cuts fuel, and I have a highly modified turbo engine, which if it runs lean will cause instant damage. How safe is the Racelogic system on these types of engine?
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
Their website is www.racelogic.co.uk and when you get past the first page which from a marketing point of view is their weakest I thought it all starts getting very professional and loads of techie stuff and graphs and a decent FAQ section.
I know obviously the TC won't help understeer it was just mentioned to show how slippy the roads are and how very easily with 462 bhp I got prob get some very easy 180 oversteer spins happening. My biggest concern is having to pul out of the stupid non existant slip roads into 120kmp traffic that doesnt move over, at the moment in the mornings I have to often stick the 330 in manuel mode and just redline in first and second to not get rammed senseless. Not that I will commute in the GT2 but you get the picture! All a bit different from the leafy lanes of Sussex.
GuyR said:
In the wet Corsas are worse than normal tires........
Have you tried them Guy?
I know they aren't great in standing water, but they felt fine in the wet. I've got the systems, not the less treaded motorsport versions which I know are a more dodgey on standing water.
I only mentioned them Mike because I know a Noble owner who resided in spain and he doesn't find it too bad on the motorsport version of these tyres out there. The front of a noble isn't as disproportionately light though.
DanH said:
In the wet Corsas are worse than normal tires........
Have you tried them Guy?
I run the Corsa Track Tires as the only tires on my R-GT2 all year-round. In the dry they are awesome on road and track. In the cold or wet they are worse than normal tires and in standing water or snow they are seriously dangerous.
johnny senna said:
In the wet Corsas are worse than normal tires........
Guy, was Chris Harris talking about Corsa track tyres or the Corsa road versions? I understand there are 2 types, I have the track ones.
Chris Harris was talking about the Corsa System ie the ones between normal tires and the track tire. They have a 'normal' tread pattern rather than the 'squiggly lines' of the track tire. They were fitted to GT3RS as standard I believe.
GuyR said:
In the wet Corsas are worse than normal tires........
Guy, was Chris Harris talking about Corsa track tyres or the Corsa road versions? I understand there are 2 types, I have the track ones.
Chris Harris was talking about the Corsa System ie the ones between normal tires and the track tire. They have a 'normal' tread pattern rather than the 'squiggly lines' of the track tire. They were fitted to GT3RS as standard I believe.
Yep as well as the 360CS and now the gallardo too I think.
I'm Mike's mate and have been chatting to him offline about this. Personally, I would think very seriously about fitting the traction control. Pros and cons:-
Pro:
- It could make the car safer to drive in the wet, and therefore it could be possible to enjoy the car more of the time. This is unquestionably good, espec if the car is in Spain.
- It sounds very cool to say you have it.
Con:
- There is always the possibility that the engine could be damaged. Doesn't matter what Racelogic says. I told Mike a story of a 530bhp MTM-modded Audi RS6 that I looked at at an official Audi dealer on Wednesday this week that was as sick as a parrot on the test drive. Nobody's barge pole was long enough and I reckon the dealer will have to pay to fix it and put it back to standard in order to be able to sell it. And this was a £3000 upgrade arranged from new by an Audi dealer (the same one reselling the car used). You could say that the dealer should have sussed this before allowing the car to be test driven, and you would be right.
- If your engine does blow up, or even something less serious, Racelogic ain't gonna pay to fix it for you and you will have no sympathy either from Camtune (the supplying specialist) or Porsche
- It will almost certainly make it even more difficult to sell the car. People are VERY suspicious of modified cars, even Porsches, even if you have removed the mods and put it back to standard. If you don't tell 'em you had done it, and they find out (if there is a major engine blow up data downloaded from the ECU will show that the car has been modded at some time) you will probably have even bigger trouble.
Just my own view, but IMHO - I wouldn't do it.
>> Edited by vinceh on Friday 25th November 14:53
Pro:
- It could make the car safer to drive in the wet, and therefore it could be possible to enjoy the car more of the time. This is unquestionably good, espec if the car is in Spain.
- It sounds very cool to say you have it.
Con:
- There is always the possibility that the engine could be damaged. Doesn't matter what Racelogic says. I told Mike a story of a 530bhp MTM-modded Audi RS6 that I looked at at an official Audi dealer on Wednesday this week that was as sick as a parrot on the test drive. Nobody's barge pole was long enough and I reckon the dealer will have to pay to fix it and put it back to standard in order to be able to sell it. And this was a £3000 upgrade arranged from new by an Audi dealer (the same one reselling the car used). You could say that the dealer should have sussed this before allowing the car to be test driven, and you would be right.
- If your engine does blow up, or even something less serious, Racelogic ain't gonna pay to fix it for you and you will have no sympathy either from Camtune (the supplying specialist) or Porsche
- It will almost certainly make it even more difficult to sell the car. People are VERY suspicious of modified cars, even Porsches, even if you have removed the mods and put it back to standard. If you don't tell 'em you had done it, and they find out (if there is a major engine blow up data downloaded from the ECU will show that the car has been modded at some time) you will probably have even bigger trouble.
Just my own view, but IMHO - I wouldn't do it.
>> Edited by vinceh on Friday 25th November 14:53
Years ago when I was into the Supra scene, a very high proportion of the modified cars from mkivsupra.net had the system fitted successfully without any issues even after a few years of use. Leon Greene who owned the fastest and most modified Supra in the UK (came second at Ten Of The Best at 196mph) ran the system, and after being taken out in the car in the wet, with the amount of HP it had, I was extremely impressed with how it worked. He owns a tuning company and knows almost all there is to know about modified turbo cars (his car was his own work), and he would not have fitted it if could have caused damage.
EK993 said:
Years ago when I was into the Supra scene, a very high proportion of the modified cars from mkivsupra.net had the system fitted successfully without any issues even after a few years of use. Leon Greene who owned the fastest and most modified Supra in the UK (came second at Ten Of The Best at 196mph) ran the system, and after being taken out in the car in the wet, with the amount of HP it had, I was extremely impressed with how it worked. He owns a tuning company and knows almost all there is to know about modified turbo cars (his car was his own work), and he would not have fitted it if could have caused damage.
OK - but owning a tuning company he was probably better placed than the rest of us to fine-tune the installation, put right little things that might go wrong, and especially so if something big went bang. I've had about 12 Porsches, including race cars, and have no compunction about modding suspension, brakes and stuff, but stand by my view that I wouldn't mess with my road-going GT2 with a system like this.
It is each to his own, of course, and this is, as ever, MHO.
Mmmm, funny you should be thinking this Mike. Having owned RS versions of both the 964 and 993 over the past 4 years, I yearned for something quick but a bit more user friendly (by which I mean comfortable, but still interesting to drive). I thus test drove an X50 equipped 996TT a couple of weeks ago.
Whist it was impressively quick and refined, it certainly wasn't the most tactile of cars to drive compared with either of the RS's.
I'd been put off the 996 GT2 by all the "they're a real handful/they're a widowmaker" posts and reports that appear on various forums and magazines, no names no pack drill (GT puerile Porsche), and like you had thought about the Racelogic traction control option.
I personally can't see how removing one injector pulse randomly would have any detrimental effect on engine durability whatsoever.
I'd make a call to someone like Colin Belton at 9M or Steve at JZM (or maybe better still the guys at DMS perhaps?) before committing to it any further.
Like you, I consider myself to be a "reasonable" driver, but the thought of overtaking on a dark wet road, and trying to control the rear end of a GT2 that has lost all traction at an inopportune moment because the turbos have lit up (or the road was slippier than expected) doesn't bear thinking about!
The GT2 seems a "bargain" at the moment and thus very tempting. Please let me know how you get on, if you do indeed proceed with the idea.
Whist it was impressively quick and refined, it certainly wasn't the most tactile of cars to drive compared with either of the RS's.
I'd been put off the 996 GT2 by all the "they're a real handful/they're a widowmaker" posts and reports that appear on various forums and magazines, no names no pack drill (GT puerile Porsche), and like you had thought about the Racelogic traction control option.
I personally can't see how removing one injector pulse randomly would have any detrimental effect on engine durability whatsoever.
I'd make a call to someone like Colin Belton at 9M or Steve at JZM (or maybe better still the guys at DMS perhaps?) before committing to it any further.
Like you, I consider myself to be a "reasonable" driver, but the thought of overtaking on a dark wet road, and trying to control the rear end of a GT2 that has lost all traction at an inopportune moment because the turbos have lit up (or the road was slippier than expected) doesn't bear thinking about!
The GT2 seems a "bargain" at the moment and thus very tempting. Please let me know how you get on, if you do indeed proceed with the idea.
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