Discussion
Just wondering if anybody can help. I'm thinking of either changing to a 993RS (comfort) or stick to my C2 and spend some money on it. Will be doing some trackdsys but will also be using it on the road. Cost aside, could anybody tell me what are the differences between the two?
From what I've searched and read, the differences I've found so far are:
-front splitter, spoiler and sideskirts, no headlamp washer
-no rust proofing (what exactly does that mean?)
-?thinner paint
-recaro seat, minimalist door panels, no rear seats, no sunroof
-welded body panels (which ones?)
-alu bonnet (??door skin as well)
-thinner glass (all or just some?)
-3.8 vario engine
-smaller pulley + single belt (don't quite understand that bit)
-big red brakes
-lowered suspension (are they Bilstein shocks?)
-thicker adjustable anti-roll bar
-different drop links
-thicker track rods
-strut brace
-steering rack thicker, ?different steering ratio (?as 964)
-LSD
-18" wheels (are they magnesium ones?)
-gear ratio (is it the same as the early C2 befoer they changed it for the later 993s?)
-?steel syncro
-light wt single mass flywheel/clutch (in CS or in comfort as well?)
-different A-arm bushes (anywhere else that uses harder rubber bushes?)
-rubber shock mount or solid??
-90L fuel tank, smaller windscreen washer bottle
That's all I can find.
Some of you guys know a great deal about the RS and I would be realy grateful for your help. I know the 993RS.com site is being constructed at the moment (can't wait!) but could do with the info now really.
From what I've searched and read, the differences I've found so far are:
-front splitter, spoiler and sideskirts, no headlamp washer
-no rust proofing (what exactly does that mean?)
-?thinner paint
-recaro seat, minimalist door panels, no rear seats, no sunroof
-welded body panels (which ones?)
-alu bonnet (??door skin as well)
-thinner glass (all or just some?)
-3.8 vario engine
-smaller pulley + single belt (don't quite understand that bit)
-big red brakes
-lowered suspension (are they Bilstein shocks?)
-thicker adjustable anti-roll bar
-different drop links
-thicker track rods
-strut brace
-steering rack thicker, ?different steering ratio (?as 964)
-LSD
-18" wheels (are they magnesium ones?)
-gear ratio (is it the same as the early C2 befoer they changed it for the later 993s?)
-?steel syncro
-light wt single mass flywheel/clutch (in CS or in comfort as well?)
-different A-arm bushes (anywhere else that uses harder rubber bushes?)
-rubber shock mount or solid??
-90L fuel tank, smaller windscreen washer bottle
That's all I can find.
Some of you guys know a great deal about the RS and I would be realy grateful for your help. I know the 993RS.com site is being constructed at the moment (can't wait!) but could do with the info now really.
what help i can offer:
-no rust proofing (what exactly does that mean?)
no underseal on the car (so your hear all the stones hitting the painted underneath of the floorpan
-?thinner paint
paint weighs quite a bit - in BTCC there is a minimum paint coverage requirement!
-welded body panels (which ones?)
seam welded shell instead of spot welded (much stiffer)
-thinner glass (all or just some?)
all except the front windscreen
-smaller pulley + single belt (don't quite understand that bit)
normally there are two pulleys at the back, one for the fan and one for the alternator (different speeds) - the RS runs the fan and alternator at the same speed.
-18" wheels (are they magnesium ones?)
no, alloy split rims
-?steel syncro
only on the RS CS i think
-light wt single mass flywheel/clutch (in CS or in comfort as well?)
both
-no rust proofing (what exactly does that mean?)
no underseal on the car (so your hear all the stones hitting the painted underneath of the floorpan
-?thinner paint
paint weighs quite a bit - in BTCC there is a minimum paint coverage requirement!
-welded body panels (which ones?)
seam welded shell instead of spot welded (much stiffer)
-thinner glass (all or just some?)
all except the front windscreen
-smaller pulley + single belt (don't quite understand that bit)
normally there are two pulleys at the back, one for the fan and one for the alternator (different speeds) - the RS runs the fan and alternator at the same speed.
-18" wheels (are they magnesium ones?)
no, alloy split rims
-?steel syncro
only on the RS CS i think
-light wt single mass flywheel/clutch (in CS or in comfort as well?)
both
p.s. building an RS replica is a very expensive and slightly pointless business.
If you like your C2 but want it to be better on track then spend a little money on suspension, a good set up, and maybe seats and harnesses. Then get yourself a second set of wheels with Dunlop SSR's. Enjoy it.
Or join the queue to buy an RS (sleep envy, clubsport, etc.)
If you like your C2 but want it to be better on track then spend a little money on suspension, a good set up, and maybe seats and harnesses. Then get yourself a second set of wheels with Dunlop SSR's. Enjoy it.
Or join the queue to buy an RS (sleep envy, clubsport, etc.)
verysideways said:
p.s. building an RS replica is a very expensive and slightly pointless business.
If you like your C2 but want it to be better on track then spend a little money on suspension, a good set up, and maybe seats and harnesses. Then get yourself a second set of wheels with Dunlop SSR's. Enjoy it.
Or join the queue to buy an RS (sleep envy, clubsport, etc.)
Yes I agree.
To try and convert your C2 into anything like an RS will be very difficult and prove expensive and the only true way to get it to drive like an RS is to Start with an RS in the first place!!
I also fear that if you do spend the money and convert your present car, when you come to sell it will be valued as a C2 with a couple of grands worth of bits, regardless of if those bits cost you £20k!!!!!!
Just get your C2 to handle well for the track with a sensible spend and buy an RS when funds allow.
Hope this helps.
John
www.carnewal.com sell (c.£20) an official Porsche manual which lists all the differences between the normal 993 and RS & RS Clubsport.
Thanks for the reply.
I'm not intending to make an RS replica really. I do fancy the RS handling, but not overly keen on the extra body bits, and not really too bothered about the extra horses.
I have already spent a fair bit on the C2 on handling mods inc shocks, springs, strut brace and Monoballs.
I was tempted by the GT3 but just can't bear to let the C2 go and I'm not the biggest fan of the 996 looks. That's why I thought of a 993 RS. However I need the rear seats, and all the other mod cons (in order to get the grant permission!) It just feels a bit of a sacrilege putting rear seats (if it is at all possible in the first place) rust proofing and all on an RS!
That's where spending money on my C2 comes in. If I decided to stay with the C2 then it'll be a keeper until I physically can't get in the car, so re-sale value isn't important, and I know I'll probably spend more than the car's worth.
What I'm thinking is that if I have a glass out respray in the next yr or so (the bodywork is not what you'd call perfect) then I might as well do the mods then.
I was thinking of changing all the chassis bits to RS specs, leave the engine as it is until it needs a rebuild in the future, may be change the glass to thinner ones, alu panels where it is in an RS, LWF when clutch needs changing next, may be the big red as well but if the current stock brakes are still functioning then I'll leave it.
As the boby work is being done, is it possible to seam weld the panels as per RS?
The rear seats can come out as and when I go to a track, other than that I'd probably leave the interior alone.
Some of the purist might think I'm ruining a perfectly good car, but I just want the cake and eat it, and be fat!
I'm not trying to make a pretend RS, so I won't be puting the body bits on, leaving the exterior pretty much unchanged. Hope you can see my logic!
>> Edited by butzi on Sunday 27th November 10:49
I'm not intending to make an RS replica really. I do fancy the RS handling, but not overly keen on the extra body bits, and not really too bothered about the extra horses.
I have already spent a fair bit on the C2 on handling mods inc shocks, springs, strut brace and Monoballs.
I was tempted by the GT3 but just can't bear to let the C2 go and I'm not the biggest fan of the 996 looks. That's why I thought of a 993 RS. However I need the rear seats, and all the other mod cons (in order to get the grant permission!) It just feels a bit of a sacrilege putting rear seats (if it is at all possible in the first place) rust proofing and all on an RS!
That's where spending money on my C2 comes in. If I decided to stay with the C2 then it'll be a keeper until I physically can't get in the car, so re-sale value isn't important, and I know I'll probably spend more than the car's worth.
What I'm thinking is that if I have a glass out respray in the next yr or so (the bodywork is not what you'd call perfect) then I might as well do the mods then.
I was thinking of changing all the chassis bits to RS specs, leave the engine as it is until it needs a rebuild in the future, may be change the glass to thinner ones, alu panels where it is in an RS, LWF when clutch needs changing next, may be the big red as well but if the current stock brakes are still functioning then I'll leave it.
As the boby work is being done, is it possible to seam weld the panels as per RS?
The rear seats can come out as and when I go to a track, other than that I'd probably leave the interior alone.
Some of the purist might think I'm ruining a perfectly good car, but I just want the cake and eat it, and be fat!
I'm not trying to make a pretend RS, so I won't be puting the body bits on, leaving the exterior pretty much unchanged. Hope you can see my logic!
>> Edited by butzi on Sunday 27th November 10:49
roygarth said:
www.carnewal.com sell (c.£20) an official Porsche manual which lists all the differences between the normal 993 and RS & RS Clubsport.
Thanks.
Just looked in there. Don't mean to be thick but which section is it in? Couldn't find it anywhere!
Butzi, for your intended use I don't think there is much point replicating an RS.
Roygarth has the rare rear seat option, you could look for a long time before finding one of these....even so one of the best features of an RS is the recaro buckets, which can't be used with rear seats anyhow.
Other features like the ali front bonnet are pointless to replicate....1000 pounds+ for one and a liabillty if you dent it. The speedline wheels are really heavy and need expensive refurbishment every 5 years or so.
I thought your car was really coming together, you have the best colour....the suspension is not far off the RS, I don't know about roll bars,,,but not over expensive plus the 3.6 engine can be bought up to RS output levels with induction & map.
The only real advantage with an RS is that somehow it is better than the sum of it's parts, has the heritage and is a reasonably safe place to put your money.
If you do go the whole way with replication, you will miss out on these 3 things.
Roygarth has the rare rear seat option, you could look for a long time before finding one of these....even so one of the best features of an RS is the recaro buckets, which can't be used with rear seats anyhow.
Other features like the ali front bonnet are pointless to replicate....1000 pounds+ for one and a liabillty if you dent it. The speedline wheels are really heavy and need expensive refurbishment every 5 years or so.
I thought your car was really coming together, you have the best colour....the suspension is not far off the RS, I don't know about roll bars,,,but not over expensive plus the 3.6 engine can be bought up to RS output levels with induction & map.
The only real advantage with an RS is that somehow it is better than the sum of it's parts, has the heritage and is a reasonably safe place to put your money.
If you do go the whole way with replication, you will miss out on these 3 things.
butzi said:
www.carnewal.com sell (c.£20) an official Porsche manual which lists all the differences between the normal 993 and RS & RS Clubsport.
Thanks.
Just looked in there. Don't mean to be thick but which section is it in? Couldn't find it anywhere!
We have gone over this before, I am sure it is there if you do a search,
The first question you need to ask is ,,,,can you live with a fully welded in rollcage as fitted to the Clubsport? If not then you need a standard car and then consider the various comfort options fitted.
With respect to the lwf, this was only fitted to the CS version,,,,I retro fitted this to my previous RS.....the CS also has slightly lower 5th & 6 gear ratios for track work..
Briefly other different CS over RS include,,,nomex recaro buckets,,,,battery cut off, RSR larger front/rear spoliers and no interior trim other than most of the dash and door cards....headlining and carpets...forget it!
It will be far more cost effective to buy a 993 RS rather than spen another penny on your 993.
Every penny spent modifying your present car will not be clawed back at resale. A 993 RS is already track prepared and it is a very safe car to put your money in, they do not lose money, whereas 993s will probably lose a little more yet. The RS will not need any money spending on it to make it track prepared because it is already track prepared. Put the money you would have spent on modifying your 993 towards an RS, it makes far more sense financially and practically speaking as well. Plus the RS has more classic status as standard!
Every penny spent modifying your present car will not be clawed back at resale. A 993 RS is already track prepared and it is a very safe car to put your money in, they do not lose money, whereas 993s will probably lose a little more yet. The RS will not need any money spending on it to make it track prepared because it is already track prepared. Put the money you would have spent on modifying your 993 towards an RS, it makes far more sense financially and practically speaking as well. Plus the RS has more classic status as standard!
You guys are really tempting me to get an RS! Thanks, and you may have a point (actually lots of points), I'm slowly leaning towards the RS route.
Few things that're stopping me:
-can you actually fit rear seats to an RS that hasn't already got one? (assuming you'll need to change the front seats too, but at least it's reversible)
-what colours are the RS come in? I've only ever seen black, white, yellow, red and blue. Any metallic colour?
-just how hard is it to find a Comfort RS at all (let alone the right colour/spec), I'm thinking of a LHD as I won't be able to drive a RHD one without lots of painkillers! (long story)
Thanks, you guys have just saved me £20k! Drinks all round on next track day! As I'm typing this I just got planning permission from the CEO!
Few things that're stopping me:
-can you actually fit rear seats to an RS that hasn't already got one? (assuming you'll need to change the front seats too, but at least it's reversible)
-what colours are the RS come in? I've only ever seen black, white, yellow, red and blue. Any metallic colour?
-just how hard is it to find a Comfort RS at all (let alone the right colour/spec), I'm thinking of a LHD as I won't be able to drive a RHD one without lots of painkillers! (long story)
Thanks, you guys have just saved me £20k! Drinks all round on next track day! As I'm typing this I just got planning permission from the CEO!
RS are available in metallics,,,,polar silver...a couple of shades of the dark metallic blue, a very rare black metallic was sold this year I have seen a turquoise one, there will no doubt be a few one offs aswell.
I cannot see the point in getting an RS and fitting rear seats, you may have fun with DVLA registration, but the seat belt holes should be there....you shouldn't run it with the fixed back buckets as it makes rear access nigh on imposssible for anyone in the back.
So you are going further away from the RS concept by adding equipment.....have you given any thought to a 993 Turbo fitted with a decent Pss9 type suspension kit???
I cannot see the point in getting an RS and fitting rear seats, you may have fun with DVLA registration, but the seat belt holes should be there....you shouldn't run it with the fixed back buckets as it makes rear access nigh on imposssible for anyone in the back.
So you are going further away from the RS concept by adding equipment.....have you given any thought to a 993 Turbo fitted with a decent Pss9 type suspension kit???
Not keen on turbo really. I know it was a bit of a sacrilege putting rear seats in an RS but it would be a deal breaker. If the holes are there, then it shouldn't be too hard to remove the seatbacks and belts when I go onto the tracks.
I can live without most of the equipments but aircon and rear seats just make an RS a viable option.
It's great that Polar silver is available, but finding one is another story I guess. I don't think I'll be too fuss with colours other than white, red and (light)blue.
Regarding DVLA, wasn't there a thread here regarding rear seats in GT3? I think the end result was that it is possible.
So the search begins....
I can live without most of the equipments but aircon and rear seats just make an RS a viable option.
It's great that Polar silver is available, but finding one is another story I guess. I don't think I'll be too fuss with colours other than white, red and (light)blue.
Regarding DVLA, wasn't there a thread here regarding rear seats in GT3? I think the end result was that it is possible.
So the search begins....
I suspect that the issue is that the rear seats wouldn't have been in there to begin with.
If you were to buy a european registered RS, and before importing it you fitted back seats and seat belts, then it would be first registered in this country as a four seater, not a two seater - something to bear in mind?
>> Edited by verysideways on Sunday 27th November 19:03
If you were to buy a european registered RS, and before importing it you fitted back seats and seat belts, then it would be first registered in this country as a four seater, not a two seater - something to bear in mind?
>> Edited by verysideways on Sunday 27th November 19:03
Thanks for the tip. As I'm likely to find one in Europe and import it here myself, certainly one way of getting round the problem. I thought the rear seat was or could be fitted as a factory option?
As regarding the front seats, it's gonna be kids getting in the back for short journeys. So as long as it's safe (ie a seats and belts present) and no roll cage, then I guess I can slide the bucket seat all the way forward and let them climb through.
As regarding the front seats, it's gonna be kids getting in the back for short journeys. So as long as it's safe (ie a seats and belts present) and no roll cage, then I guess I can slide the bucket seat all the way forward and let them climb through.
Getting in the back of an RS is pretty difficult but then getting out again is a whole different story. I managed to clamber into the back of mine to clean the inside of the rear window, got myself wedged in against the roll cage, then realised that I couldn't get out again. Spent about 15 minutes contorting myself into all sort of positions to get out.....guess that will teach me to clean the inside of the car again.
Mine has the recaro buckets and bolt in cage.
Mine has the recaro buckets and bolt in cage.
Jimmy Riviera said:
Getting in the back of an RS is pretty difficult but then getting out again is a whole different story. I managed to clamber into the back of mine to clean the inside of the rear window, got myself wedged in against the roll cage, then realised that I couldn't get out again. Spent about 15 minutes contorting myself into all sort of positions to get out.....guess that will teach me to clean the inside of the car again.
I would like to have seen that! Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha
get to the back of the queue!!! First of all the 993C2 shell and 993RS Comfort have identical bodyshells apart from a reinforcement plate in the boot aperture to take a tow hook, so funadamentally there is no reason why you cannot continue with your original plan provided that you can accept the age-old "you will never get your money back" dilemour. However, looking at other threads today we also have PH'ers commenting that 50% depreciation of a £100k turbo over 5 years is "reasonable", so there must be common ground in the middle where your zero depreciation C2 is worth spending a fair chunk on to get it how you want it.
I fail to fully agree that the RS is the perfect starting point as they are also flawed, so with reasonable mods your C2 would not be so far behind one on a track. In any case, what would you do when the time comes that the 993RS is "too rare/too valuable" to risk on a track day? The final point is that for many modified Porsche owners the journey is as important as the destination, so if it floats your boat to have a car built to your specification do not let anyone put you off, starting with your C2 will result in a similar spend as finding a reasonable RS but at least you will know what has gone into it and will not feel guilty about thrashing it within an inch of its life.
I fail to fully agree that the RS is the perfect starting point as they are also flawed, so with reasonable mods your C2 would not be so far behind one on a track. In any case, what would you do when the time comes that the 993RS is "too rare/too valuable" to risk on a track day? The final point is that for many modified Porsche owners the journey is as important as the destination, so if it floats your boat to have a car built to your specification do not let anyone put you off, starting with your C2 will result in a similar spend as finding a reasonable RS but at least you will know what has gone into it and will not feel guilty about thrashing it within an inch of its life.
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