Irony - Traditions: England, New England
Discussion
I notice many New England traditions, site names, etc reflect English heritage(obviously). Of late, however, I have listened to many of you gripe about it being "unfashionable" to be English in England; that immigrant influence does not want to merely co-exist but supplant old ways. I find it ironic that old English "ways" are more alive(in some cses)in a New England city than in the Old English capital. New England is multi-cultural, however, those who promote such melting pot philosophies(Ted Kennedy, assorted ilk, etc.)will not have that sort of thing in their vacinity; thus, another irony! Perhaps the hypocrosy of these entrenched New England politicians keeping the region lilly-white Anglo-Saxon has the fortunate by-product of preserving your traditions. I am sure that I am overstating the case. Surely what I describe is more of an occurence in London than in other more "traditional" English cities, towns, and villages.
Trooper2 said:
Hope you're wearing your crash helmet.
.....and flame resistant britches.
Thanks for the warning
I am not meaning to piss off anyone. If anything, I feel like I am in line with what many other PHers have posted before. My thinly veiled agenda here it to help keep English traditions and stir the pot on the New England bluebloods
jimbeaux said:
My thinly veiled
Now where have I heard that before....
Now bend over and wait for the masses
Unfortunately, I believe "the masses" will tend to agree with me. Honestly, I wish it were not so. But just in case, I don't bend well, but run very fast
Wrong choice of words on my behalf? I agree with you comments but many people obviously dont... or do they... surely they do as everyone I talk to has the same opinion as me/you... But surely the masses dont care otherwise someone, somewhere would tackle the issue - its all very confusing
<naive mode=off>
>> Edited by polus on Monday 28th November 22:47
los angeles said:
American good manners are impeccable in comparison to the coarsening of sensibilities back in Blighty, Jim. (Scotland is less troubled but losing some of its ingrained consideration of others, a quality once known as courtesy and chivalry, now referred to as "plain speaking." However, it's an admirable old-world habit Californians have retained. The same holds true for those I have met in the mid-West and Southwest. Can't always say the same for New Yorkers! But as a Scot I am not qualified to comment on your other assertions. I'll leave that to English friends. Hope you're wearing your crash helmet.
I must say that your post evoked a moment of pause and consideration on my part. I reflected over the past few years and indeed the proceeding forty of my life and thought about the people from all corners of the UK that I have met.
I have come to one inescapable conclusion:
I have never, in my life, met anybody from the UK (including England, Scotland and Wales) or Ireland that was not the very picture of manners and decorum.
But, since your post suggested that the lack of sensibilities are a recent phenomenon, I restricted my reflection to the last few years, and have come up with a few examples.
* At a recent trip to Disney’s Grand Floridian, the wife and I ran into a nice Irish couple celebrating their recent nuptials. After noticing the accent and a brief introduction, the four of us spent the next four hours drinking and talking about all manner of things under the sun (well, moon actually). Fantastic time.
* Landing at Birmingham airport for BTaP '03, HM customs employee inquired as to the nature of my visit. I responded with my attendance at the gala event and then my plan to visit my Grandmother in Scotland that I had not seen since I was 17. "Oh, I do hope she is OK?" inquired the gent. "What do you mean?" says I. "Well, you’ve come all this way, I hope it’s not because she's not doing well." I told him that she was fine. All of this from an employee who’s US equivalent would care less about your Grandmother.
* Upon arriving at the Hotel for BTaP, I attempt to check in early. In most US hotels this is an absolute unheard of traveler’s tort. I was surprisingly offered a sweet "We'll sort it for you, love" from the nice young lady behind the desk and I was in my room in 15 minutes.
* After a short nap (8 hour flight), I awoke and meandered out to the lobby and found Dazren (English gentleman extraordinaire) who had taken it upon himself to find out the best pubs in the area and had already selected one for he and I to lunch at that day. I had never met Daz before, but his hospitality typifies the Britains that I have met in my life. Later on that evening, we were joined by several other gentlemen including Ted, Domster, GregE240 (the very epitome of English sensibilities) and PistonFest. ALL OF WHOM I HAD NEVER MET. Great curry, gents!
This is just one small set of examples. However, I am left with the unerring conclusion that, to me, British sensibilities are alive and well and are there for all the world to see.
The troubling thing is, I think, that sometimes, the world doesn’t want to see these sensibilities.
Me, personally? I can only believe in what I have seen and how I have been treated.
Cheers
ErnestM
PS: Oh, and you are right about manners being alive and well in Scotland, too. But that is a tale for another day.
>> Edited by ErnestM on Tuesday 29th November 02:10
I wouldn't give up on England just yet. I've just got back from 10 days in the Auld Country and had a truly spiffing time. The cabbie who picked us up from Victoria was friendlier and chattier than any we'd had in New York, San Francisco or Boston in the past 6 months and it just continued from there
Spent a brilliant weekend in London and then a further week in the bucolic gorgeousness of rural Dorset. Something America can't match.
Got back to Iowa yesterday and had a brilliant burger and chips - England's great and so is Iowa
Spent a brilliant weekend in London and then a further week in the bucolic gorgeousness of rural Dorset. Something America can't match.
Got back to Iowa yesterday and had a brilliant burger and chips
- England's great and so is Iowa Highway Star said:
I wouldn't give up on England just yet. I've just got back from 10 days in the Auld Country and had a truly spiffing time. The cabbie who picked us up from Victoria was friendlier and chattier than any we'd had in New York, San Francisco or Boston in the past 6 months and it just continued from there
Spent a brilliant weekend in London and then a further week in the bucolic gorgeousness of rural Dorset. Something America can't match.
Got back to Iowa yesterday and had a brilliant burger and chips
I would not either, I think the place is great; I always have a good time on my UK visits. London, like any major city, is not a good representation of the rest of the nation. My post, however, was nothing to do with manners, that was LA's contribution. I was speaking more to the "WASP" traditions being more prevelant, in some cases, in the New England states than in the UK. This is certainly not all encompassing, but noticeable in instances more and more. This just struck me as ironic.
Back to you other guys' take on manners; I notice that my times in Essex county and other "country" regions to be more friendly. This is no different a phenomenon than in any other nation. When it comes to "class & refinement", however, I believe the Brits(Ok, minus the Chavs)have a corner on the market.
puggit said:
Jimbeaux, I'm in DC for a few days of training and your post is scarily similar to the musings of a colleague from Scotsdale, AZ. He was mentioning similar thoughts just 10 mins before your initial posting.
Yes England has been overrun, and yes - we'd all like to emmigrate
There are times when I would like to run and hide to your country. Maybe we can just "swap places" when this urge arises
jimbeaux said:
I was speaking more to the "WASP" traditions being more prevelant, in some cases, in the New England states than in the UK. This is certainly not all encompassing, but noticeable in instances more and more. This just struck me as ironic.
What traditions do you mean Jim? Having only briefly visited New England and my first association of WASP being with the 80s hair rock band, I'm not sure which 'English/British' traditions exist there, but I'm interested by this
_VTEC_ said:
There are certain aspects of 'Englishness' that I would never want to die. Our craftsmanship for example.
Make the most of it while you can. From my experiences in engineering, there are few bodies coming in to replace those going out.
Modern transient living means that most people don't know about, or give a fig about, craftsmanship anyway.
Here's an example: the last house I lived in featured built-in cabinets in the downstairs rooms that had been handmade by the previous owner, a former cabinet-maker and lecturer. It was mostly oak (solid or veneered), no chipboard anywhere.
Shortly after my ex-wife sold it I was visiting a mate who lives 2 doors awy. Outside my old house was a skip; in it was the remains of those cabinets, ripped out to be replaced by some ghastly plastic-veneered chipboard units, probably sold by Ikea and made in China.
Even when you see these so-called 'restored' old buildings on TV shows, most of them feature 2 x 2 and plasterboard, not exactly your craftsman-like construction...
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