Patents/design rights question
Discussion
I know this is a rather specialist question, but i'm sure someone on here will know the answer.
If someone comes up with a design/product/idea, but do not patent it then can anyone else copy it, and then produce the idea/product without any problems? And if they do, do they have to give any money to the original person as it was technically their idea?
If someone comes up with a design/product/idea, but do not patent it then can anyone else copy it, and then produce the idea/product without any problems? And if they do, do they have to give any money to the original person as it was technically their idea?
These are differences between patenting tangble objects and coptright of literary works and software. No expert in the former, but it was touched on when I was looking at copy protecting software. With literary works, software, music etc the copyright is implied so the creator owns the copyright without taking any further steps, and can therefore pursue anyone that copies or plagurises the work within a set timeframe - 25 years?
Not the same as patenting a physical object where you hav to apply for a patent, and that patent only applies in the countries you pay for. So, you could have an item patented in the UK and USA, only to find it can be copied and sold quite freely in Japan say. The biggest trap is that you cannot reveal or discuss the thing you want to patent. If it transpires you have 'gone public' then you don't get a patent. Worst, if you do get the patent but then some competitor finds someone who you told of your idea before the application, then you're screwed. If it's your idea you are talking about, then the rules are 1) do not discuss the idea with anyone, 2) get in touch with a patent officer. No doubt there are many throuhout the country, but I know in Glasgow there's a company called Murgatroyd who are patent officers as I dealt with them some time ago.
Not the same as patenting a physical object where you hav to apply for a patent, and that patent only applies in the countries you pay for. So, you could have an item patented in the UK and USA, only to find it can be copied and sold quite freely in Japan say. The biggest trap is that you cannot reveal or discuss the thing you want to patent. If it transpires you have 'gone public' then you don't get a patent. Worst, if you do get the patent but then some competitor finds someone who you told of your idea before the application, then you're screwed. If it's your idea you are talking about, then the rules are 1) do not discuss the idea with anyone, 2) get in touch with a patent officer. No doubt there are many throuhout the country, but I know in Glasgow there's a company called Murgatroyd who are patent officers as I dealt with them some time ago.
srebbe64 said:
Why, what's your idea?
Thats the thing, its not mine
Someone told me about an idea they had just over a year ago. It seemed like it had potential, but there were some major design flaws. I designed it all using a 3D imaging program, right up to a fully working on screen model. That took me about 5 months, using just my own ideas either developing the existing ones so it would work or creating new parts to add additional functions to make it appeal to a wider market.
Obviously I can't give any specific details. I need to know however if I try and get a patent and/or maybe look into producing this product, am I going to get into trouble.
By the way, how much does patenting cost?
A load of info here...
www.patent.gov.uk/
And the forms/fees are all listed here:
www.patent.gov.uk/patent/forms/ukpatsupp.htm
Dave
www.patent.gov.uk/
And the forms/fees are all listed here:
www.patent.gov.uk/patent/forms/ukpatsupp.htm
Dave
Unless you have a big organisation backing you don't bother with patents.
Every small inventor thinks that the patent will protect him and ensure that the World beats a path to his door. In reality any organisation big enough to properly tool up to make and finance marketing a new product will also be able to employ lawyers and designers to argue for ever about every last tiny trivial detail of your idea while they take a total rip off to market leaving you with nothing.
In the real world, as opposed to the world of the pennyless inventor who dies just as deluded as when he first filed his patent you have the following options.
Registered design
This is roughly analogous to car styling or the shape of a coke bottle, it's cheap, easy and more defendable in some cases.
Public domain
Bung it on a website stating that anyone can use it! This pulls the rug out from under anyone who tries to annex your design or tries to patent something very very similar. You can use it. They can use it. So can all of their competitors.
Really on copyright.
This is very similar to registered design but uses the laws of copyright. Make a few and claim that the look and feel of certain parts are a copyrighted feature. You will need to show that these features are associated with your product. Easier than defending a patent though.
Do nothing to protect your invention
Just make it yourself if it is possible to do so. Someone might copy you. By the time their copy is on the market you will know the market, the customers, the suppliers of all the bits, employ the experts and have a brand name in buyers computer databases. When their copy hits the market you introduce the improved Mk2 version...
Keep the important bits secret
This is similar to the secret recipe for coke. You can't make coke without the recipe. If they patented it then they would have to reveal the recipe in the patent! So it's not patented and they keep it secret. If there is something that depends on know how in your invention just keep that bit to yourself.
The truth is that most inventors never make any money at all out of a patent. They are very hard to defend. Most serious companies only bother to file patents to screw up rivals R&D projects or give their engineers or lawyers a headache. (I have actually been involved in this!) Hardly any are genuine useful ideas, except those from pennyless deluded inventors that is!
Having said that you might be one of the minority that gets a patent and reaps the reward. Sometimes it works. Just bare in mind the above and go in with your eyes open!
Every small inventor thinks that the patent will protect him and ensure that the World beats a path to his door. In reality any organisation big enough to properly tool up to make and finance marketing a new product will also be able to employ lawyers and designers to argue for ever about every last tiny trivial detail of your idea while they take a total rip off to market leaving you with nothing.
In the real world, as opposed to the world of the pennyless inventor who dies just as deluded as when he first filed his patent you have the following options.
Registered design
This is roughly analogous to car styling or the shape of a coke bottle, it's cheap, easy and more defendable in some cases.
Public domain
Bung it on a website stating that anyone can use it! This pulls the rug out from under anyone who tries to annex your design or tries to patent something very very similar. You can use it. They can use it. So can all of their competitors.
Really on copyright.
This is very similar to registered design but uses the laws of copyright. Make a few and claim that the look and feel of certain parts are a copyrighted feature. You will need to show that these features are associated with your product. Easier than defending a patent though.
Do nothing to protect your invention
Just make it yourself if it is possible to do so. Someone might copy you. By the time their copy is on the market you will know the market, the customers, the suppliers of all the bits, employ the experts and have a brand name in buyers computer databases. When their copy hits the market you introduce the improved Mk2 version...
Keep the important bits secret
This is similar to the secret recipe for coke. You can't make coke without the recipe. If they patented it then they would have to reveal the recipe in the patent! So it's not patented and they keep it secret. If there is something that depends on know how in your invention just keep that bit to yourself.
The truth is that most inventors never make any money at all out of a patent. They are very hard to defend. Most serious companies only bother to file patents to screw up rivals R&D projects or give their engineers or lawyers a headache. (I have actually been involved in this!) Hardly any are genuine useful ideas, except those from pennyless deluded inventors that is!
Having said that you might be one of the minority that gets a patent and reaps the reward. Sometimes it works. Just bare in mind the above and go in with your eyes open!
The thing about a patent, AFAIK, is that if someone infringes your patent, then it's up to you to persue them. Unless you are the point in the design cycle where the object is about to pay for itself, or has already paid for it's self, then it's unlikely that you can do anything about the infringer.
In the real world you'd have thought that patents serve to protect the little guy from the megacorp, sadly it's usually the reverse.
I personally think that the world would be a better place without patents. Copyright is a different beast altogether, much simpler, much more direct. It is unfortunate that by nature you can't make a choice between them.
Edited to add;
Excellent post cymtriks......
I actually think that patents are/have been a mechanisim for military government scientists to get access to new ideas, particularly for the development of weapons.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 4th December 22:24
In the real world you'd have thought that patents serve to protect the little guy from the megacorp, sadly it's usually the reverse.
I personally think that the world would be a better place without patents. Copyright is a different beast altogether, much simpler, much more direct. It is unfortunate that by nature you can't make a choice between them.
Edited to add;
Excellent post cymtriks......
I actually think that patents are/have been a mechanisim for military government scientists to get access to new ideas, particularly for the development of weapons.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 4th December 22:24
m1spw said:
Why, what's your idea?
right up to a fully working on screen model.
hmmm, so it works on a screen.......try making a real one!
sorry to be cynical, but i've had too much experience of "well it worked on the computer" when i'm trying to assemble stuff that our drawing office has been near!
>> Edited by eccles on Sunday 4th December 22:30
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