Please help me out guys -- buying advice needed

[supermono]

Ok, I'm on the cusp. I've had some interest in the M5 and it looks like I'll be able to make a deal but what do I get?

I've seen several "as new" C4S 996s from main dealers for mid 40s.
I've seen a couple of similar quality 996tts for not very much more privately. GT3s are wide open too price wise.

Now I've only driven a C4S which I had mixed feelings about. First thing that struck me was how gutless (sorry) it was compared with the mighty V8, my M5 seems like it wants to shear the propshaft at 2500, this 996 didn't do anything until 3500. After I got used to that, however I enjoyed the way it flicked into corners and pounced out with more drive than it had a right to, considering the standing water and near freezing conditions.

Obviously a turbo is going to make the M5 feel limp wristed, but I'm paying more to buy and insure.

Then there's a GT3. Most of my mileage is done on motorways with some decent twiddly bits at each end, and I'm told the GT3 would rattle out my fillings (if I had any) and generally get on my tits during the 100 mile plus motorway drive with tramlining and noise. Is this true? Could you live with a GT3 on a motorway?

What's the feeling depreciation wise (a favourite topic I know)? Although I'm paying more for a turbo now, will it fall more or less rapidly than a C4S?

I can't consider a C2 I'm afraid...

SM

[verysideways]

Insurance on a turbo is unlikely to be much more than on a C4S or GT3 of similar value. Difference between C2, C4S, and TT for me was about £40 a year!

GT3 will not rattle your fillings out, it's got better body control that's all, i certainly wouldn't call it harsh and i could live with one on the motorway, but it seems a bit of a waste.

If you are doing all weather, motorways and twisties, and the C4S seems limp wristed, then it occurs to me there is only one choice...

[DanH]

How often are you driving it? Personally I'd go off a GT3 if it was a daily hack for 100 miles a day (and I love my GT3). Turbo seems the obvious choice, but watch out for residuals with the new model about to come out, I'm not sure whether it has been fully factored into current prices yet.

[spenny_b]

supermono said:

I can't consider a C2 I'm afraid...

Er, why not?....can you clarify?

On paper, same bhp as the C4S, with less weight than C4 and C4S, with more chassis feedback than the 4wd models. Erm, sounds like a good starter-for-ten to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a GT3, but I think you're being a bit dismissive of the "humble old cooking model" () Carrera2...it's not as though they chuck you off the road at the slightest hint of wet weather, try one, you *may* be surprised....or is this a status thing

[supermono]

I'm dismissing the C2 because I really fancy this four wheel drive thing. Never had 4WD before and I'm getting a bit tired of being sideways johnny in the rain in the M5 and I figure the C2 would be similar.

Maybe a C2 would work well for me, being lighter than the M5, I'll think about it. Certainly could save a few quid. How are they in the wet? Is the stability control (if any) over nannying like the M5's (in the wet)

Image/status is zero for me. The reason for C4S is the (apparently) better brakes/running gear than the regular C4. I'd rather not lug the extra weight of all that unneccessary wideness if the C4 had the turbo running gear. Is there really that much difference?

Another factor is residuals -- for various reasons the C4S seems to hold its value better.

Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong on any count of the above! Now's the time for me to learn before I'm the other side of a 45k+ spend...

SM

[paul y]

I used my Mk1 GT3 everyday for 2 years racking up 25K+ miles in that time. This included comuting into the city and long trips to the frozen North and Europe as well.

Only let me down once when snow became compacted in the front rads and it got a tad hot... My fault for having too much fun!

A very usable every day car and that extra seat time just makes you so more in tune with the car. Fantastic bit of kit.

Did the same with my Mk2 GT3, not as many miles though as I swopped it for an RS. I would have to say that the Mk2 is probably a better bet on a day to day basis and they are now at a very reasonable price considering.

RS was the most comfortable and most complete car I have ever owned but that is for another day!

[anonymous-user]

supermono said:

I'm dismissing the C2 because I really fancy this four wheel drive thing.SM

well forget the gt3 then. your choice is turbo or c4. for me thats a pretty easy one...

[Adam B]

supermono said:

1. Could you live with a GT3 on a motorway? 2. Although I'm paying more for a turbo now, will it fall more or less rapidly than a C4S?

1. you could but what's the point - wosrt scenario for that car

2. same I would imagine, ie same % more £ up to a point as reasonable premium would be maintained

[lanesra10]

Got to be a Turbo then

[abarber]

supermono said:

I'm dismissing the C2 because I really fancy this four wheel drive thing. Never had 4WD before and I'm getting a bit tired of being sideways johnny in the rain in the M5 and I figure the C2 would be similar. Maybe a C2 would work well for me, being lighter than the M5, I'll think about it. Certainly could save a few quid. How are they in the wet? Is the stability control (if any) over nannying like the M5's (in the wet) Image/status is zero for me. The reason for C4S is the (apparently) better brakes/running gear than the regular C4. I'd rather not lug the extra weight of all that unneccessary wideness if the C4 had the turbo running gear. Is there really that much difference? Another factor is residuals -- for various reasons the C4S seems to hold its value better. Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong on any count of the above! Now's the time for me to learn before I'm the other side of a 45k+ spend... SM

Eh? 996C2 has so much traction anyway, particulary in the wet. I guess if you're used to being nanyied with stability control, get one with PSM. 4WD 911s from the 993 onwards run with practically all the power to the rear wheels, unless they lose traction anyway.

Test drive them, see if you can find the difference.

Not sure what you mean by better running gear on the C4S, either.

[paulburrell]

I have a GT3 MK1 and friend has a 996tt. On track the GT3 more than holds off the turbo and sounds fantastic above 4000rpm, but on the road the turbo is definitely the real deal. Acceleration and power is awesome, although exhaust note is somewhat limp. 4wd makes it pretty safe to drive in inclement weather as well, whereas GT3 will have you concentrating 100% in wet weather particularly on roundabouts and B roads. So if you don't intend to do a lot of track work then I would go for the turbo. There seems to be a nice silver one for sale in the classifieds at the moment(no connection with me) for less than £50k, what a bargain!!!!

[supermono]

Yes it's a beauty alright.

SM

[kayc]

Ive had a gt3 and a 996 turbo..on the road 996tt is nearly unbeatable for speed,handling ,safety etc.gt3 ok on perfect roads,perfect day is great but the rest of the time not a match for 996tt.also the 996tt has awesome torque compared to the gt3..just what you need to get from slow to quick on our crap roads...

[spenny_b]

supermono said:

Maybe a C2 would work well for me, being lighter than the M5, I'll think about it. Certainly could save a few quid. How are they in the wet? Is the stability control (if any) over nannying like the M5's (in the wet)

In the wet, seriously, if you lose it with all things being equal (i.e., no diesel spillages or a road that Nervous has been driving along ) you'll be going pretty damn quick....I'd almost border on saying "wrecklessly quick" (and its not often I stick on my sensible hat...must be impending fatherhood!)

Yes, fair to say that if you hoon it off from a standing start, you will get a wiggle, but entirely controllable, barely noticeable, tbh....comes back to the old subject of "how to drive a 911"...and I do not profess to be an expert (before I get flamed), but once on the power, it becomes far more stable than just side-stepping the clutch from standstill (obviously).

I live right on the Kent coast, and have to go along a mix of fast A and nuggety B roads to get anywhere, and (touch wood) with the amount of general traffic and appropriate speeds for the conditions, blah blah blah, I get out each time with a growing affection for its capabilities. It feels every bit as planted as my old Type-R Impreza (which had variable centre diff), but more confidence inspiring; less understeer, less roll.

Oh, and I bought it in Feb this year...3 days before the snow came down.....still drove it up the M2 with barely clear roads...good as gold, as long as you don't take the pi55....which you wouldnt.

I should also add, I dont have PSM on mine either.

W.r.t. weight difference between C2 and C4, I *believe* it's about 45-50kgs...I'm sure someone will know the exact answer. Not sure how much heavier the C4S is that C4 though.

Hope that helps!
Spencer

[bumcrack]

Try the C2 before you dismiss it, the engine position gives great traction in the wet and I was booting mine around in a heavy down pour after only owning the car for 10 minutes, which shows you how much confidence the engine layout gives you in the wet.

[SeanDH]

supermono said:

Ok, I'm on the cusp. I've had some interest in the M5 and it looks like I'll be able to make a deal but what do I get? I've seen several "as new" C4S 996s from main dealers for mid 40s. I've seen a couple of similar quality 996tts for not very much more privately. GT3s are wide open too price wise. SM

Isn't it great to have these problems? Having recently done the 996TT versus 997 C2S heartache and having settled on the 997 I know how you feel. But I had a 996 C2 for 3 years, put 20k miles on it and never felt that I was going to lose the backend. I had a 3.2 sport coupe before so had learned how to respect a 911 but I have to say the whole 96 C2 experience was great. Now I have the 997 I am finding that I need more respect than I did with the 996. As for the C4S thing, I think that is a stunning looking car in 996 but at the end of the day you are carrying the equivelant in extra weight of almost another person and this will affect performance compared to a C2. But the bottom line has to be, if you can afford a 996TT then go for it, it has to be the ultimate car. I am sure that all going well I will end up with a 997TT. As for values I feel the 996TT will tend to flatten out a bit on residuals, they have taken a big hit in the last year due to the 997 arrival and also I found a ot of folk selling their TTs were getting ready to take delivery of their Aston Martin V8s. So there are perhaps more about 2nd hand than there would normally be. Once these boys have got fed up with their slow, unreliable Astons they will be back looking for something that you can drive every day and which doesnt have to go back to the garage on a regular basis. If you look hard now and can bargain a bit on the price a 996TT will be a good buy and as the boys say the insurance isnt that much more.

Sean

[DanH]

Alternatively stop asking us and have a go in them all

You can't fully dissable PSM on a car which has it. Even turned off, it will reactivate under braking if it detects more than a certain amount of slip. I've not experienced it so have no idea how intrussive it is.

[willr]

DanH said:

You can't fully dissable PSM on a car which has it. Even turned off, it will reactivate under braking if it detects more than a certain amount of slip. I've not experienced it so have no idea how intrussive it is.

I'd be surprised if anyone had a complaint about PSM kicking in on the road, particularly if it happened when PSM was "off".