£600m a year on immigrants
Discussion
Why don't you just join the BNP and have done with it. £600m is a drop in the ocean as regards total spending on health & education in the UK.
There are a lot of REAL assylum seekers (not spongers) who need the help of Western countries. Let's face it, countries like England and the US became wealthy through exploitation of third-world countries, not to mention the slave trade.
The great 'Industrial revoultion' that made Britain 'Great' was funded almost entirely by the slave trade in Africa. Also, it's the West's economic policies and trade protectionism that is keeping the por countries poor.
One well documented fact is that third world farmers simply CANNOT compete on the open market, as prices that Western farmers charge for goods is kept artificially low by the huge subsidies their farmers get.
It's payback time.
Rant over.
>> Edited by argonaut on Wednesday 27th November 10:29
There are a lot of REAL assylum seekers (not spongers) who need the help of Western countries. Let's face it, countries like England and the US became wealthy through exploitation of third-world countries, not to mention the slave trade.
The great 'Industrial revoultion' that made Britain 'Great' was funded almost entirely by the slave trade in Africa. Also, it's the West's economic policies and trade protectionism that is keeping the por countries poor.
One well documented fact is that third world farmers simply CANNOT compete on the open market, as prices that Western farmers charge for goods is kept artificially low by the huge subsidies their farmers get.
It's payback time.
Rant over.
>> Edited by argonaut on Wednesday 27th November 10:29
argonaut said: Why don't you just join the BNP and have done with it. £600m is a drop in the ocean as regards total spending on health & education in the UK.
There are a lot of REAL assylum seekers (not spongers) who need the help of Western countries. Let's face it, countries like England and the US became wealthy through exploitation of third-world countries, not to mention the slave trade.
The great 'Industrial revoultion' that made Britain 'Great' was funded almost entirely by the slave trade in Africa. Also, it's the West's economic policies and trade protectionism that is keeping the por countries poor.
One well documented fact is that third world farmers simply CANNOT compete on the open market, as prices that Western farmers charge for goods is kept artificially low by the huge subsidies their farmers get.
It's payback time.
Rant over.
Ludicrous!
spnracing said: Good rant.
By the way noticed the BNP won another seat last week. The Today programme on radio 4 interviewed one of the Social Democrat councillors in the same area, he came across as a complete waste of space. No wonder the BNP did so well, where was the opposition?
Sad. Very sad.
Try living in one of these areas. Nobody wants fascists in charge but when nobody in the political mainstream has the balls to face up to what may be umpalatable truths to some (i.e. meltingpotmyarsism), these knee jerk reactions are not entirely unpredicatable.
The dumbing down of an effective right wing conservatism in the UK provides much of the explanation.
Source: Daily Mail
Consider the source.
As much as I like to check the "Daily Outrage" from time to time to find out what the emotive stories of the day are, I can't help but notice that most of the paper isn't filled with news - it's filled with stories and editorial content based on the news, but written in a tone that attempts to stir up outrage in it's readers.
As has been pointed out, while 600 million is a great deal of cash on a personal level (more than I'll ever see!), it's not that much in terms of government expenditure.
Whilst I can understand the view that genuine asylum seekers should stop at the first safe country they come to rather than passing through several other countries to reach the UK and US, I can also see things from their point of view.
It's relatively easy to get a job in the UK as part of the 'black economy' if reports are to be believed, but I suspect the main reason that we and the US are favourite destinations is because we speak English. I can't help but think you'd want to end up in another country that you could make yourself understood in, and for most I suspect that if they know a second language the odds are that this language is English.
Just my 2p worth.
Dan
spnracing said: There was no use of the word racist until you brought it up? If you're referring to the BNP reference then their policies probably match the views expressed quite well.
But the BNP are, amongst other things, openly racist. They are tapping into a sensitivity, shall we say, that is being ignored or at least not analysed by mainstream politics.
Which is a dangerous error.
Surely the imagrants queueing up in Calais are quite safe from their 'danger' there, France always seems nice when I visit (ok only once a year to go to Le Mans) and the places they show you on 'A Place in the Sun' always look wonderfull so why don't they stay there...........
Of course I know the answer we all do, and because someone disagrees with our 'Far left namby pamby lets not upset anyone, because they are scarred of being called racist goverment doesn't make them racist in any way.
The sad thing is in certain areas Joe Public is begining to see the BNP as a sensible choice for local goverment
Of course I know the answer we all do, and because someone disagrees with our 'Far left namby pamby lets not upset anyone, because they are scarred of being called racist goverment doesn't make them racist in any way.
The sad thing is in certain areas Joe Public is begining to see the BNP as a sensible choice for local goverment
Dan - £600M is equivalent to about £11 per capita. More, if you base it on those who actually pay tax.
There are only so many worthy causes and only so much we can continually donate towards.
At a time of looming public sector pay demands and much needed, mass infrastructural investment, these sums are far from irrelevant.
It all adds up so, look after the pennies..?
There are only so many worthy causes and only so much we can continually donate towards.
At a time of looming public sector pay demands and much needed, mass infrastructural investment, these sums are far from irrelevant.
It all adds up so, look after the pennies..?
derestrictor said: Dan - £600M is equivalent to about £11 per capita. More, if you base it on those who actually pay tax.
There are only so many worthy causes and only so much we can continually donate towards.
At a time of looming public sector pay demands and much needed, mass infrastructural investment, these sums are far from irrelevant.
It all adds up so, look after the pennies..?
Fair point - I was surprised that 11,000 fewer firemen would save £100 million a year (I think this was the figure quoted), which goes to show how much I know about economics!
Per tax payer I'd guess it's something in the region of £50/year, or just under £1/week? Can't say I'd notice a tax cut of that order, but spending the whole £600 million on something else may well make a difference I guess. It'd sort out the fire strike for starters! On another note, I wonder how much is lost to the treasury each year due to unemployment benefit fraud?
Dan
argonaut said:
The great 'Industrial revoultion' that made Britain 'Great' was funded almost entirely by the slave trade in Africa. Also, it's the West's economic policies and trade protectionism that is keeping the por countries poor.
One well documented fact is that third world farmers simply CANNOT compete on the open market, as prices that Western farmers charge for goods is kept artificially low by the huge subsidies their farmers get.
The industrial revolution in this county and others was 'funded' by the exploitation of fossil fuels. When you've got coal you can make steel, with steel you make machines that can use more coal to make power for industrial processes.
The reason why farmers in third world countries cannot compete is that they have no access to fossil fuel powered machines which are needed to farm large areas cheaply and efficiently. How much wheat would be grown on the American praries if it had to be harvested by animal powered equipment?
John
On another note, I wonder how much is lost to the treasury each year due to unemployment benefit fraud?
Dan
This page from the national audit office:
www.nao.gov.uk/pn/9798465.htm
Gives it as:
One of the Benefits Agency’s main priorities is to tackle fraud and abuse. I support the action being taken by the Benefits Agency to combat benefit fraud and my report records the measures they are taking to reduce fraud in benefits paid from the Fund. Notwithstanding these efforts Benefits Agency reviews have estimated total losses of £102 million arising from the fraudulent encashment of girocheques and order books which if proportioned to benefits paid from the National Insurance Fund, would produce a potential loss to the Fund of up to £56 million. The Benefits Agency believe, however, that the greater loss would occur on income support and income based jobseeker’s allowance due to the greater risk of instruments of payment fraud on these benefits compared with National Insurance Fund benefits. In addition a joint review by the Employment Service and Benefits Agency estimated that the underlying level of confirmed or strongly suspected unemployment benefit fraud was £86 million. I therefore have no alternative but to qualify my opinion on the account.
Some good points on both sides...
The interesting thing about the BNP is that even though they've been voted in at local council elections, I'm willing to bet that most who voted for them did so out of frustration at the mainstream poloticians and without either understanding or particularly sympathising with the intricacies of BNP policies.
Probably 9 out of 10 people who say they're tempted to vote for the BNP do so on this basis.. and it really should be considered a wake-up call for the main parties rather than a descent into facist Britain, which I really doubt we'd *ever* see.
Just to play Devils Advocaat for a moment, does anyone know a rough figure for how much legitimate immigrants put back into the economy..? Probably more than £600m but naturally the Daily Maul would neglect to mention this..
The interesting thing about the BNP is that even though they've been voted in at local council elections, I'm willing to bet that most who voted for them did so out of frustration at the mainstream poloticians and without either understanding or particularly sympathising with the intricacies of BNP policies.
Probably 9 out of 10 people who say they're tempted to vote for the BNP do so on this basis.. and it really should be considered a wake-up call for the main parties rather than a descent into facist Britain, which I really doubt we'd *ever* see.
Just to play Devils Advocaat for a moment, does anyone know a rough figure for how much legitimate immigrants put back into the economy..? Probably more than £600m but naturally the Daily Maul would neglect to mention this..
Asylum seeker, economic migrants, illegal immigrants.
Subtle differences between them all.
Economic migrants is what most of these people are who are gaining access to britain actually are.
They are here because there are "opportunities", for benefit, housing, free health care etc etc.
As far as i understand it, you are allowed to claim "asylum" here if this is the first freindly country you set foot in.
Countries like Afghanistan, where huge numbers of these freeloaders are coming from, is next to how many friendly countries?
Britain could hardly be further away, yet still they try to claim "asylum" here when in fact their claims are totally bogus.
Now call me a racist if you like, i dont give a f**k, but thats the real situation with these people. The truth hurts, so im fully expecting the likes of argonaut to flame me for my "racist views".
Land in France or Germany and make their claim there do they?
Nah. "we want come england, free money".
I actually heard one of these turds saying this shortly before he jumped over the fence and made a run for a eurostar train, was on central news.
The truth will out as it always does, just because some of us express our views and point out these truths to others dosnt make us racist in any way shape or form.
Not afraid of being politically "incorrect".
Subtle differences between them all.
Economic migrants is what most of these people are who are gaining access to britain actually are.
They are here because there are "opportunities", for benefit, housing, free health care etc etc.
As far as i understand it, you are allowed to claim "asylum" here if this is the first freindly country you set foot in.
Countries like Afghanistan, where huge numbers of these freeloaders are coming from, is next to how many friendly countries?
Britain could hardly be further away, yet still they try to claim "asylum" here when in fact their claims are totally bogus.
Now call me a racist if you like, i dont give a f**k, but thats the real situation with these people. The truth hurts, so im fully expecting the likes of argonaut to flame me for my "racist views".
Land in France or Germany and make their claim there do they?
Nah. "we want come england, free money".
I actually heard one of these turds saying this shortly before he jumped over the fence and made a run for a eurostar train, was on central news.
The truth will out as it always does, just because some of us express our views and point out these truths to others dosnt make us racist in any way shape or form.
Not afraid of being politically "incorrect".
argonaut said: Why don't you just join the BNP and have done with it. £600m is a drop in the ocean as regards total spending on health & education in the UK.
There are a lot of REAL assylum seekers (not spongers) who need the help of Western countries. Let's face it, countries like England and the US became wealthy through exploitation of third-world countries, not to mention the slave trade.
The great 'Industrial revoultion' that made Britain 'Great' was funded almost entirely by the slave trade in Africa. Also, it's the West's economic policies and trade protectionism that is keeping the por countries poor.
One well documented fact is that third world farmers simply CANNOT compete on the open market, as prices that Western farmers charge for goods is kept artificially low by the huge subsidies their farmers get.
It's payback time.
Rant over.
>> Edited by argonaut on Wednesday 27th November 10:29
Jeeez - work for Jack Straw do you ???? Its easy isn't it, blame all the worlds ills on Britain of the past and forget the real reasons for current 3rd world failings..... Tw@ts!
What about failed communist policies, what about despot leaders who subvert aid funds to swiss bank accounts, well yeah, they're all the fault of Britain and the US.
We have enough problems of our own to deal with in this country without importing more - crime lords in London imported from the Blakan states, the Yardies etc etc etc - give us an effective immigration policy and kick the no-gooders out pronto. Fill our prisons with our own crims, not another countries ffs!
As for the BNP - well, have you looked at the manifestos they put forward at the local elections that they've won, did you discuss their policies with them?? Who says they're racist .....?
This country will never be white supremacist - we're way too moderate to go down that route, but we do have a great belief in self-preservation and the BNP are currently feeding from that vein. That the other parties have ignored and in some cases denigrated it is to their shame. Minority rule is what we have at the moment - and its time the majority took control again.
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