"Myth" of the air cooled 911.
Discussion
Hi,
I'm currently shopping for my first Porsche (in KL, Malaysia).
I've narrowed it down to either a comfort spec 996 GT3 Mk.1 (2001 build), with Tequipment roll cage, harnesses and the GT3 buckets, or a 993 GT2 (1997 build), without roll cage, but with power steering (apparently an option?) and air conditioning.
I've test driven the GT3 and found it to be an amazing vehicle, with sharp turn in and a planted rear end that wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.
The owner of the GT2, due to the rarity of the vehicle, is understandably reluctant to let me have a go in it.
Hence, my question (to those who either have had experience of both, or the GT2) is; how much "better" is a 993 GT2 vs. the Mk.1 GT3? In a straight line, the numbers indicate that the GT2 is obviously quicker, but I'm looking more for impressions regarding the handling (is the GT2 much "harder" to drive than a GT3?), reliability (I do intend to track the car as often as Sepang has open track days), and usability (I also intend to use it on trips to Singapore- a 700km round trip).
I know that it is impossible to quantify the pros and cons of the GT2 vs. GT3, due to the basic difference of the vehicles. But, I would appreciate any "feelings" and subjective observations.
Also, having not had any experience of air cooled Porsches, I've always wondered what the "fuss" is all about, and would appreciate any comments on that too.
From my experience and observations; I believe I can learn to handle the GT3 properly, and that it would handle the track days and commute down to Singapore without a sweat, and without being allowed to take the GT2 out, I am leaning towards the GT3.
Any insights?
Thanks.
[Yes, this might be surprising for you guys in the UK/Europe, but the determining factor of the value of a car, in Malaysia (probably the whole of South East Asia) is the age of the car, and not really the rarity of collectability. Anyways, there isn't much of a market in Malaysia for "hard core" cars like the GTs, which most Porsche buyers here opting for the ease of Tiptronic. Hence, cars like that tend to depreciate quite a bit and do not hold their values well. Therefore allowing me the luxury of choosing between the GT2 & 3, within my budget. Oh, there are 3 993 GT2s in Malaysia, and 4 996 GT3 Mk.1s. All RHD, of course.]
I'm currently shopping for my first Porsche (in KL, Malaysia).
I've narrowed it down to either a comfort spec 996 GT3 Mk.1 (2001 build), with Tequipment roll cage, harnesses and the GT3 buckets, or a 993 GT2 (1997 build), without roll cage, but with power steering (apparently an option?) and air conditioning.
I've test driven the GT3 and found it to be an amazing vehicle, with sharp turn in and a planted rear end that wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.
The owner of the GT2, due to the rarity of the vehicle, is understandably reluctant to let me have a go in it.
Hence, my question (to those who either have had experience of both, or the GT2) is; how much "better" is a 993 GT2 vs. the Mk.1 GT3? In a straight line, the numbers indicate that the GT2 is obviously quicker, but I'm looking more for impressions regarding the handling (is the GT2 much "harder" to drive than a GT3?), reliability (I do intend to track the car as often as Sepang has open track days), and usability (I also intend to use it on trips to Singapore- a 700km round trip).
I know that it is impossible to quantify the pros and cons of the GT2 vs. GT3, due to the basic difference of the vehicles. But, I would appreciate any "feelings" and subjective observations.
Also, having not had any experience of air cooled Porsches, I've always wondered what the "fuss" is all about, and would appreciate any comments on that too.
From my experience and observations; I believe I can learn to handle the GT3 properly, and that it would handle the track days and commute down to Singapore without a sweat, and without being allowed to take the GT2 out, I am leaning towards the GT3.
Any insights?
Thanks.
[Yes, this might be surprising for you guys in the UK/Europe, but the determining factor of the value of a car, in Malaysia (probably the whole of South East Asia) is the age of the car, and not really the rarity of collectability. Anyways, there isn't much of a market in Malaysia for "hard core" cars like the GTs, which most Porsche buyers here opting for the ease of Tiptronic. Hence, cars like that tend to depreciate quite a bit and do not hold their values well. Therefore allowing me the luxury of choosing between the GT2 & 3, within my budget. Oh, there are 3 993 GT2s in Malaysia, and 4 996 GT3 Mk.1s. All RHD, of course.]
The 996 GT3 is a special car.
The 993GT2 is a VERY special car, possibly the finest road going Porsche 911 ever built.
The GT3 is the more sensible choice as it isn't as rare and will be cheaper/easier to maintain. But if you can buy a 993 GT2 for reasonable money then do so. It will be worth much more than a GT3 in the future; it's a classic now and it will be even more of a classic in years to come.
>> Edited by domster on Monday 19th December 14:13
The 993GT2 is a VERY special car, possibly the finest road going Porsche 911 ever built.
The GT3 is the more sensible choice as it isn't as rare and will be cheaper/easier to maintain. But if you can buy a 993 GT2 for reasonable money then do so. It will be worth much more than a GT3 in the future; it's a classic now and it will be even more of a classic in years to come.
>> Edited by domster on Monday 19th December 14:13
The 993 GT2 is going for about RM800,000; or, approximately GBP120,000.
The 996 GT3 is going for about RM550,000; or, approximately GBP80,000.
Hmmm, perhaps I rambled too much in my initial posting, allow me to be a little more succient;
What makes the 993 GT2 so special? What makes it the "best road going Porsche 911"? Even above and beyond the 996 GT3?
Realising how sensitive this topic can be, I do not wish to start a "war" between the air cooled and water cooled fraternities. But having been presented with such an intriguing choice, and being so uninformed, I would appreciate any feedback/observations.
If it helps, I'm coming from an e46 M3 SMG, which I found a little cold, and slightly too "competent".
The 996 GT3 is going for about RM550,000; or, approximately GBP80,000.
Hmmm, perhaps I rambled too much in my initial posting, allow me to be a little more succient;
What makes the 993 GT2 so special? What makes it the "best road going Porsche 911"? Even above and beyond the 996 GT3?
Realising how sensitive this topic can be, I do not wish to start a "war" between the air cooled and water cooled fraternities. But having been presented with such an intriguing choice, and being so uninformed, I would appreciate any feedback/observations.
If it helps, I'm coming from an e46 M3 SMG, which I found a little cold, and slightly too "competent".
Aha, well that's market value for the 993 GT2. I believe vic's lovely blue one is up for sale at GT Classics with Paul mc for similar money.
It's 50 per cent more than the GT3... if you want ease of living with a Porsche I doubt it's worth the extra. However I imagine GT2 values will hold, whereas a GT3 at 80k has further to fall.
It's 50 per cent more than the GT3... if you want ease of living with a Porsche I doubt it's worth the extra. However I imagine GT2 values will hold, whereas a GT3 at 80k has further to fall.
domster said:
Aha, well that's market value for the 993 GT2. I believe vic's lovely blue one is up for sale at GT Classics with Paul mc for similar money.
It's 50 per cent more than the GT3... if you want ease of living with a Porsche I doubt it's worth the extra. However I imagine GT2 values will hold, whereas a GT3 at 80k has further to fall.
Deprecition offset against greater running costs on a GT2 though? Chris Harris had some fun with his gearbox needing some work
Yes, the GT2 is about 50% more than a GT3, but my budget can stretch to that, and being aware of the reputation of the GT2, it's not a stretch that I am unwilling to take. Especially when a new, fully spec'ed up 997 Carrera S is going for around GBP130k... and that car left me feeling a little underwhelmed (sorry!), when compared to the GT3.
OK, as for the specialness, I haven't driven a 993GT2, only a 993 Turbo and a 993RS. Essentially the GT2 is the b*stard child of these two.
I really like the 993RS but I just don't think these or the 964RS are quick enough in a straight line (apart from 9Ms lovely 993RSR!). Derestrictor's 540bhp turbo has the kind of grunt that you'd never be bored with. It is just something else. But the turbo isn't lightweight Rennsport, and they really have that x-factor. Whether it's the philosophy or the added agility or the legend or the lack of depreciation, it's difficult to say why they seem so much more wonderful than standard, but they are. So a 993RS with an engine like that would be the best of both worlds.
I love the GT3 as well, but they lack a bit of old school character inside (daft pedals, big revcounter at 12 o clock, funny switchgear), the classic shape has moved on to the world of the wind tunnel and the build seems a bit less substantial. You still get these emotive factors in the air cooled cars, but to live with, the water cooled ones are far more modern in feel.
Get the owner to take you out in the GT2; it should have more character even from the passenger seat. Otherwise try a 993RS and see how that compares to the GT3; they are basically a third of the price and are still special. The 964RS wins on this appeal, too - more compromised and rawer than even the 993, so a lot of that 'character' if you like your Porsches harder than softer.
I really like the 993RS but I just don't think these or the 964RS are quick enough in a straight line (apart from 9Ms lovely 993RSR!). Derestrictor's 540bhp turbo has the kind of grunt that you'd never be bored with. It is just something else. But the turbo isn't lightweight Rennsport, and they really have that x-factor. Whether it's the philosophy or the added agility or the legend or the lack of depreciation, it's difficult to say why they seem so much more wonderful than standard, but they are. So a 993RS with an engine like that would be the best of both worlds.
I love the GT3 as well, but they lack a bit of old school character inside (daft pedals, big revcounter at 12 o clock, funny switchgear), the classic shape has moved on to the world of the wind tunnel and the build seems a bit less substantial. You still get these emotive factors in the air cooled cars, but to live with, the water cooled ones are far more modern in feel.
Get the owner to take you out in the GT2; it should have more character even from the passenger seat. Otherwise try a 993RS and see how that compares to the GT3; they are basically a third of the price and are still special. The 964RS wins on this appeal, too - more compromised and rawer than even the 993, so a lot of that 'character' if you like your Porsches harder than softer.
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