Suspected of using a laser jammer
Discussion
A question for BiB,
Say you driving along in a vehicle fitted with a jammer, and a police officer tries to measure your speed but can't because the jammer generates an error on the gun.
He is suspicious and pulls you over, what rights has he got to examine your vehicle at the roadside ?
Also any ideas what civilan operators would do in this instance ?
P.S I'm in Scotland if it makes any difference.
Say you driving along in a vehicle fitted with a jammer, and a police officer tries to measure your speed but can't because the jammer generates an error on the gun.
He is suspicious and pulls you over, what rights has he got to examine your vehicle at the roadside ?
Also any ideas what civilan operators would do in this instance ?
P.S I'm in Scotland if it makes any difference.
Best way is to use it intelligently. There is no point in purposely pissing plod off.
When it warns you that there is a laser probing your jam jar, slow down to the speed limit and turn it off as quickly as possible.
Copper gets a reading, you get no points, everyones happy.
If you leave it on and drive all the way past them you can be certain they will find somthing to do you for...!
When it warns you that there is a laser probing your jam jar, slow down to the speed limit and turn it off as quickly as possible.
Copper gets a reading, you get no points, everyones happy.
If you leave it on and drive all the way past them you can be certain they will find somthing to do you for...!
If he has reasonable grounds to suspect that the vehicle does not comply with C&U Regs or is being used in the commission of a criminal offence, he has powers to stop and search a vehicle.
If he discovers something, he can seize and test it. Very likely if it still has big "LASER JAMMER" stickers on it
Offence will be under Wireless Telegraphy Act, so from memory the offence is having the device capable of .... without a licence, rather than having to prove actual use.
As said elsewhere, these give you warning not immunity. Slow down then turn it off.
If he discovers something, he can seize and test it. Very likely if it still has big "LASER JAMMER" stickers on it
Offence will be under Wireless Telegraphy Act, so from memory the offence is having the device capable of .... without a licence, rather than having to prove actual use.
As said elsewhere, these give you warning not immunity. Slow down then turn it off.
The use of such a device can come under the offence of obstructing Police in the execution of their duty.
They do and never have had to obtain a warrant to search your car unless it is your place of residence i.e. you live in it and even then it may be subject to the place that you normally reside in it and not when you are mobile.
There are certain procedures that need to be adhered to for the searching of people and vehicles under Section 1 PACE 1984 to make the search legal. In this case, the suspicion that you have jammed the signal with electrical equipment may not be apparent, if it was visble to the stopping officer or any component of such, he would not need to use any search powers other than to seize th equipment as evidence.
If however you had really p1ssed him off and he used Section 25 Pace 1988 to arrest you. Having been arrested he can use powers under Section 32 PACE 1984
Sect 32(2)(b) PACE 1984
Gives Police the power to enter and search any premises in which the person was when arrested or immediately before being arrested. The search may be in relation to and for the purpose of finding evidence of the offence for which the suspect has been arrested.
Sect 32(6) PACE 1984
states
A constable may not search premises in the excercise of the power conferred by subsection 2(b) above unless he has reasonable grounds for believing that there is evidence for which a search is permitted under that paragraph on the premises....
(9) A constable searching a person in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (2)(a) above may seize and retain anything he finds, other than an item subject to legal privilege, if he has reasonable grounds for believing.....
(a)....
(b) That it is evidence of an offence or has been obtained in consequence of the commission of an offence.
The machine would be evidence of an offence and as such could be seized from you and produced at court.
The fact the act refers to premises does not exempt your car/vehicle which is counted as premises.
So you will see that if you are arrested your car can be searched and your property seized under Sect 32 PACE 1984.
If the officer is not satisfied about who you are or where you live, then the general power of arrest can be initiated which gives the power of search.
So the answer is that if you are using a jammer and are stopped, you may have committed an offence of obstructing Police. They have powers under Section 25 PACE 1984 to arrest for this. This brings in powers under Sect 32 PACE 1984 to search for and seize evidence.
Having been arrested and the circumstances then change (where the officer becomes satisfied to your identity or address) then provided you have not been taken to a Police Station, he has the power to de-arrest you and let you go.
The subject of searching and warrants is very complex.
PACE 1984 caters in some circumstances for a Police Inspector to authorise a search warrant without going to a court (Section 18 PACE 1984)
There are quite a few examples of searches being legal without the existance of a court warrant to do so.
The best advice I have seen in a post above this is if you are using a jammer, as soon as it has achieved its purpose, reduce your speed to the correct limit and turn it off. You are then not likely to be pulled over and subjected to the compexities of PACE 1984
Edited to say that you should not use these devices as they are against the law to do so
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 29th November 22:39
They do and never have had to obtain a warrant to search your car unless it is your place of residence i.e. you live in it and even then it may be subject to the place that you normally reside in it and not when you are mobile.
There are certain procedures that need to be adhered to for the searching of people and vehicles under Section 1 PACE 1984 to make the search legal. In this case, the suspicion that you have jammed the signal with electrical equipment may not be apparent, if it was visble to the stopping officer or any component of such, he would not need to use any search powers other than to seize th equipment as evidence.
If however you had really p1ssed him off and he used Section 25 Pace 1988 to arrest you. Having been arrested he can use powers under Section 32 PACE 1984
Sect 32(2)(b) PACE 1984
Gives Police the power to enter and search any premises in which the person was when arrested or immediately before being arrested. The search may be in relation to and for the purpose of finding evidence of the offence for which the suspect has been arrested.
Sect 32(6) PACE 1984
states
A constable may not search premises in the excercise of the power conferred by subsection 2(b) above unless he has reasonable grounds for believing that there is evidence for which a search is permitted under that paragraph on the premises....
(9) A constable searching a person in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (2)(a) above may seize and retain anything he finds, other than an item subject to legal privilege, if he has reasonable grounds for believing.....
(a)....
(b) That it is evidence of an offence or has been obtained in consequence of the commission of an offence.
The machine would be evidence of an offence and as such could be seized from you and produced at court.
The fact the act refers to premises does not exempt your car/vehicle which is counted as premises.
So you will see that if you are arrested your car can be searched and your property seized under Sect 32 PACE 1984.
If the officer is not satisfied about who you are or where you live, then the general power of arrest can be initiated which gives the power of search.
So the answer is that if you are using a jammer and are stopped, you may have committed an offence of obstructing Police. They have powers under Section 25 PACE 1984 to arrest for this. This brings in powers under Sect 32 PACE 1984 to search for and seize evidence.
Having been arrested and the circumstances then change (where the officer becomes satisfied to your identity or address) then provided you have not been taken to a Police Station, he has the power to de-arrest you and let you go.
The subject of searching and warrants is very complex.
PACE 1984 caters in some circumstances for a Police Inspector to authorise a search warrant without going to a court (Section 18 PACE 1984)
There are quite a few examples of searches being legal without the existance of a court warrant to do so.
The best advice I have seen in a post above this is if you are using a jammer, as soon as it has achieved its purpose, reduce your speed to the correct limit and turn it off. You are then not likely to be pulled over and subjected to the compexities of PACE 1984
Edited to say that you should not use these devices as they are against the law to do so
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 29th November 22:39
Given that you are in Scotland, note that PACE does not apply.
As regards Wireless Telegraphy, my understanding is that the Act covers the majority of Electro-Magnetic Radiation, which includes visibile and non-visible sources. Given that it's the weekend though I've no access to the Act to check. Perhaps BiB will be more familiar with this on a day to day basis and can help.
As regards Wireless Telegraphy, my understanding is that the Act covers the majority of Electro-Magnetic Radiation, which includes visibile and non-visible sources. Given that it's the weekend though I've no access to the Act to check. Perhaps BiB will be more familiar with this on a day to day basis and can help.
I find this hard to believe....If this is the case, then it would cover torches, headlights, electric fires, IR remote controls etc.
bobthebench said:
As regards Wireless Telegraphy, my understanding is that the Act covers the majority of Electro-Magnetic Radiation, which includes visibile and non-visible sources.
deltaf said: Hi Madcop.
Quick question.
Hows the officer going to prove that the reason he couldnt get a reading on his gun was down to the now turned off laser jammer??????
Thus showing that the suspected offender was indeed preventing the officer from doing his duty??
I can't answer that.
If though, I was operating one and had 30 or 40 readings without failure, then got a misreading from a vehicle that was obviously travelling too fast ( the machine only corroborates an opinion), stopped it and saw evidence that there was a jammer in the car, I would probably leave it to the Magistrates to decide
(or not)
madcop said: The use of such a device can come under the offence of obstructing Police in the execution of their duty.
They do and never have had to obtain a warrant to search your car unless it is your place of residence i.e. you live in it and even then it may be subject to the place that you normally reside in it and not when you are mobile.
There are certain procedures that need to be adhered to for the searching of people and vehicles under Section 1 PACE 1984 to make the search legal. In this case, the suspicion that you have jammed the signal with electrical equipment may not be apparent, if it was visble to the stopping officer or any component of such, he would not need to use any search powers other than to seize th equipment as evidence.
If however you had really p1ssed him off and he used Section 25 Pace 1988 to arrest you. Having been arrested he can use powers under Section 32 PACE 1984
Sect 32(2)(b) PACE 1984
Gives Police the power to enter and search any premises in which the person was when arrested or immediately before being arrested. The search may be in relation to and for the purpose of finding evidence of the offence for which the suspect has been arrested.
Sect 32(6) PACE 1984
states
A constable may not search premises in the excercise of the power conferred by subsection 2(b) above unless he has reasonable grounds for believing that there is evidence for which a search is permitted under that paragraph on the premises....
(9) A constable searching a person in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (2)(a) above may seize and retain anything he finds, other than an item subject to legal privilege, if he has reasonable grounds for believing.....
(a)....
(b) That it is evidence of an offence or has been obtained in consequence of the commission of an offence.
The machine would be evidence of an offence and as such could be seized from you and produced at court.
The fact the act refers to premises does not exempt your car/vehicle which is counted as premises.
So you will see that if you are arrested your car can be searched and your property seized under Sect 32 PACE 1984.
If the officer is not satisfied about who you are or where you live, then the general power of arrest can be initiated which gives the power of search.
So the answer is that if you are using a jammer and are stopped, you may have committed an offence of obstructing Police. They have powers under Section 25 PACE 1984 to arrest for this. This brings in powers under Sect 32 PACE 1984 to search for and seize evidence.
Having been arrested and the circumstances then change (where the officer becomes satisfied to your identity or address) then provided you have not been taken to a Police Station, he has the power to de-arrest you and let you go.
The subject of searching and warrants is very complex.
PACE 1984 caters in some circumstances for a Police Inspector to authorise a search warrant without going to a court (Section 18 PACE 1984)
There are quite a few examples of searches being legal without the existance of a court warrant to do so.
The best advice I have seen in a post above this is if you are using a jammer, as soon as it has achieved its purpose, reduce your speed to the correct limit and turn it off. You are then not likely to be pulled over and subjected to the compexities of PACE 1984
Edited to say that you should not use these devices as they are against the law to do so
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 29th November 22:39
hey you just give me a great idear for a new afternoon pass time
inviving a info red lasser tube i got lying a round and the local cammra van
I thought most laser jammers could only fire one jamming beam at a time and then they turns off automatically for a recharge (which takes a few seconds - 5 IIRC). Are they all like this or am I talking nonsense?
But, presumably if a laser gun gets a false reading then the cop just fires it again, at which point the jammer is off, probably before you get a chance to slow down. Or is there a reset period on the laser gun as well?
So, am I correct in saying a laser jammer is unlikely to be that helpful in real life?
But, presumably if a laser gun gets a false reading then the cop just fires it again, at which point the jammer is off, probably before you get a chance to slow down. Or is there a reset period on the laser gun as well?
So, am I correct in saying a laser jammer is unlikely to be that helpful in real life?
madcop said: The use of such a device can come under the offence of obstructing Police in the execution of their duty.
hmmmmmm civilian operators using laser speed measurement and cameras from the backs of vans parked up at the side of the road?
These obviously aren't police officers and obviously have more limited powers, infact come to think of it assuming its legal parking whats to stop me following these buggers around and parking up blocking their view everywhere I can ? as indeed a nice builder parks his van (legally) right in the GATSO picture zone every night just down the road from me.
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