BMW M5 tuned or E55 AMG in the Ultima?

[donkeasy]

Hello everyone

Hope you have had some nice christmas meals
and are now setting up your body for new-years night!!!

A week ago I was at the Ultima factory
and now I am planning the final spec's of my GTR.
I have some crossroads to take.
This is one of them . Can you help me!!

Shall I use an BMW M5 with (motec or KMS) motormanagment.
It's my First love and choise.
High RPM's/rev's(8000) I like that a lot.
good power 550 HP. good torque 575 Nm
Easy to fit on the Porsche gearbox.

Or shall I use an MB E55 AMG, new type (2005) with the blower..
with (motec or KMS) motormanagment
Somebody offered it new in a factory-box for resoanable money.
Lots of power 500HP and lots of torque 700NM.
But with low RPM's/rev's 6000 tsja .............
Also easy to fit on the Porsche gearbox.

Both completely alluminium and non leaking german V8 reliable light horses.
I know a lot of you like the BMW M5.
Thinking of the sound and I start leaking myself (mouth).

In this case I am specially interested
in your feeling about an MB engine in an Ultima.

Thanks Joop

[GTRene]

I think a AMG MB engine in an Ultima sounds good too and reliable! just like Pagani use MB engine's in the Zonda, its a great combo!
But if you want a more racy car I gues the M5 engine fits better for the Joop euh Job
You life in Einhoven? nice to hear that another Ultima come's to the Netherlands
You know that also the Technocars boys work in zeeland(Netherlands) and Willem van der Kooi (lotus-noble-caterham) is working on a Ultima can-am! so I'm happy to hear that more carfreaks make the Netherlands a bit more beautiful to life in...
Good luck with your choice
cheers
GTRene

[donkeasy]

Thanks rene

That's what I call a good statement. I like that, please more!

I was also at techocars, good guy's.
Same ultima, different approach, active people.

Don't know mr Kooi? is he also into pistonheads?.

Thx

Joop

[d3vine]

I like a Chevy LS7 with twin supercharger putting out 1100 hp. That'll go into my super light Ultima GTR. It'll have the same power to weight ratio as the current F1 race cars. Watch out Bugatti Veyron!

[GTRene]

donkeasy said:

Thanks rene That's what I call a good statement. I like that, please more! I was also at techocars, good guy's. Same ultima, different approach, active people. Don't know mr Kooi? is he also into pistonheads?. Thx Joop

Willem van der Kooi and lotus cars are building a Ultima 685hp can-am in Amsterdam (they are also in Lochem)see their linkwww.lotuscars.nl/index.htm and look under the Lotus button and their you see the article...
My favoriet is a black GTR though, what collor do you choose?
By the way Ascari also uses M5 engine's in the back, very nice
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Friday 30th December 01:43

>> Edited by GTRene on Friday 30th December 11:40

[andygtt]

I'd go for the M5 engine, IMO you don't need a wall of torque in a lightweight Ultima and the ability to rev fast will produce a faster car.

I'd also be extremelly careful about a merc engines dimensions, I very much doubt the V12 that goes in the Pegani will fit an Ultima as its very long.

[donkeasy]

Thanks for the reply's.

Looks like the discussion about what german V8?
is changing into what german v12?
Which is good for me, in this stage I keep an open mind
And they have also brandnew MB v12 new type 600 laying around.

I was hoping that by using a german v8
there is enough space in the frame
to put a few ATL tanks there behind my back.
Look the space with the Audi engine of technocars.
But of course that is a very small engine.

The MB E55 AMG is also the engine of the SL 55 AMG (new V8 one)
Driven by mr Clarckson as I can remember,
he was very happy with it..

omeyhomey: I didn't now that, so if v12 go for the MB,
the new 600 has got 500 hp (not sure)
About the exhaust I keep that in mind,
I want to make a diffusor anyway, so...
thanks for the info, keep that in mind.

andygtt: What you mean is, I hope understand right,
a light car with high torque and little powerband,
gives a lot of wheelspin and then its over.
That's why I thought the BMW engine tuned is a better option
Powerband is then 3-8000 revs. thankx

D3vine: I looked at the new 7 liter engine
I understand it's a super engine
but it is not my cup of tea, sorry.

GTrene: I got a lot of red/bordeaux leather laying around
which i am going to use for the inside.
I am seriously thinking of grey/smokegrey,
with that leather interior.
Or a blue body with lightgrey interior
and leave that for the next project.

Any suggestion is welcom on that.

Thankx Joop

[chuntington101]

looks like no matter what way you go you will have a very intresting project! and i like the fact your are not going down the tried and tested route.

just a quick question, how much are these engines going to set you back? just wondering how they compare to say a new LS2 or even the SBC.

as for what i would use, well its a tricky one. the BMW engine with a S/C on there could be very nice. and then you get the same power band but with more power!

but then the AMG V8 with the blower also looks very good! i would just take the clutch drive off because i have heard thta people are having problems with them. and while you are there you could run it a little faster. im sure the engine could take it.

and if you get really bored with that then just add a nice single turbo on the and run compound boost!

thnaks Chris.

[donkeasy]

I am very keen on a good highrev's sound
so in that perspective you have a point there omeyhomey.

Next week I will get some final engineprices Chris.
Need to think about how to compare in a good way.

I am sure the V12 is cheaper to buy. (no market)
Of course an exhaust, camshaft and steel followers
will cost more for a V12 than a V8.
If the group is interested I will try to make a overview.

Joop

[Eckmeister]

Hey Joop,

I was lookin' around on the net for Ultima projects with other engines than the carved-rock american v8 and saw your post on pistonheads. When the time is right en my wallet is big enough, I want to build my own ultima, if the regulations still let me. But I was wondering how you are doin' with your procject and and I wanted to know if you you can show us any progress online.

Groeten Rick.

[carbuilder2002]

Hmm interesting to hear about tuning of the M5 V8. Anyone know how it compares to the new V10 regarding power against weight?

carbuilder2002

[therighthand]

I am going to be visiting an Ultima up here in Canada and am going to be taking very careful measurements of the engine compartment. I would be interested in knowing the weight of all of these engines... Also, isn't the M5 engine using a drive by wire concept, I have heard that those are PITA to set up.

Concerning the MB V12 getting easy horsepower, I don't think that the added weight would be worth the extra power. In my mind the extra length would bring the engine very far back ( if it fits at all).

Also, 100hp from exhaust, intakes and a tune isn't that great. I have had greater gains from my old 13b-rew....

To the original author looks like a very interesting project.....

Cheers to all,

Alex

[donkeasy]

as said I went the v10 way.
not much to report yet.

just wait and see

Edited by donkeasy on Saturday 7th October 23:25

[nickmpower]

any news?

[donkeasy]

Trying to get material for the inletmanifolds.

[donkeasy]

Thanks for the advice, there are a lot of good possibilities,

I prefer a good programmable system, from tuning point off view

Since I heard/drove the Gallardo a couple of weeks ago,
I am even more happy.....

[chuntington101]

omeyhomey said:

The E55 AMG engine is a much better choice but why are you trying to use biggy back, why not just use the stock ECU? no need to make life harder on yourself. I would also recommend tranferring over the E55 instrument cluster so you can just plug everything up. Only downside is I do not know how the engine will react with no auto tranny behind it, My old M3 was just fine after 5-speed swap from auto but it was a much simpler OBD1 ECU and BMW seperates engine & tranny ECU, where as Mercedes has all in one units i believe. Also E55 has almost unlimited modifications for it, software alone makes stupid power. ALso people are putting SLR cams in AMGs now and making crazy power. Some are nearing almost 650HP (making it better power / weight ratio than a mclaren. Just a suggestion. hope that helps

any idea what supercharger the AMG/McLaren guys use?? is it the same size as the Ford GT item (the eaton 122 i think)???

thanks Chris.

[donkeasy]

Think in the end that will also cost 20.000 euro.
So why don't use a 65 AMG engine for the same money?

[4WD]

Wouldn't a V8 better due to lighter mass, smaller size, more power and better sound? Seems a lot to sacrafice just to say you have a nice badge or impressive cyllinder count.

[donkeasy]

Seems a lot to sacrafice just to say you have a nice badge or impressive cyllinder count.[/quote]

Not my words!!!

Edited by donkeasy on Monday 23 October 19:02