driving tests - skill or statistics?
Discussion
My son opted to take his driving test in his own car. He'd had a lot of lessons by a qualified instructor followed by us taking him out for practice.
On the day, off he went with the examiner along with another two hopefuls, both of whom were taking their tests in their instructors' cars. Left in the waiting room with the instructors, they both said to me - if snyone fails today it will be your son because they know we are more likely to question a failure than you are - in the conversation which ensued they made it clear that they felt strongly that passing a driving test was based on statistics rather than skill, i.e. they passed so many, failed so many, to meet targets.
They went on to give me examples of pupils they had had who had either passed when they should have failed, or vice versa.
Sure enough, my son failed, and failed again and again, even though he is a very good driver - in my opinion and his driving instructor's. I was further informed that anyone failing a fourth time is entitled to have a further examiner accompany him in the next test - well, would you believe it, he passed on his fourth attempt, so this wasn't necessary.
My personal feeling is that the instructors were right - you pass or fail depending on how many others have passed or failed in a particular period. A driving instructor is going to raise the issue if he feels the pupil should have passed, a parent will just slink away with the Kleenex handy.
Does anyone out there have any opinions/knowledge/etc, as my next son is now having lessons and I feel strongly that he should take his test in the instructor's car to give himself a fair crack of the whip.
On the day, off he went with the examiner along with another two hopefuls, both of whom were taking their tests in their instructors' cars. Left in the waiting room with the instructors, they both said to me - if snyone fails today it will be your son because they know we are more likely to question a failure than you are - in the conversation which ensued they made it clear that they felt strongly that passing a driving test was based on statistics rather than skill, i.e. they passed so many, failed so many, to meet targets.
They went on to give me examples of pupils they had had who had either passed when they should have failed, or vice versa.
Sure enough, my son failed, and failed again and again, even though he is a very good driver - in my opinion and his driving instructor's. I was further informed that anyone failing a fourth time is entitled to have a further examiner accompany him in the next test - well, would you believe it, he passed on his fourth attempt, so this wasn't necessary.
My personal feeling is that the instructors were right - you pass or fail depending on how many others have passed or failed in a particular period. A driving instructor is going to raise the issue if he feels the pupil should have passed, a parent will just slink away with the Kleenex handy.
Does anyone out there have any opinions/knowledge/etc, as my next son is now having lessons and I feel strongly that he should take his test in the instructor's car to give himself a fair crack of the whip.
I unfortunately didn't pass my test first time, I failed on the first test because when going onto a large roundabout was in the left lane (out of three) to go straight over. Unfortunately that lane turned into a left turn only lane (which I did not know and it was not sign posted) therefore as it was the middle of the rush hour I was forced to turn left and I did not signal my intention before entering the roundabout, therefore I failed.
However on my retest (different examiner) I went on the same roundabout but in the stretch of road before it he told me to stay in the middle lane as he wanted me to go straight over. That time I passed(3minors)
My examiner thought it was a little harsh to fail me first time as I had four minor faults and the only reason that I was in the wrong lane was due to me never have been on that bit of road before.
One of my friends was a very good driver, he failed 3 times. Another mate was extremely poor (and still is really!) and passed first time. I'm not sure whether they have a quota or not or maybe some people are just lucky and others are unlucky........
However on my retest (different examiner) I went on the same roundabout but in the stretch of road before it he told me to stay in the middle lane as he wanted me to go straight over. That time I passed(3minors)
My examiner thought it was a little harsh to fail me first time as I had four minor faults and the only reason that I was in the wrong lane was due to me never have been on that bit of road before.
One of my friends was a very good driver, he failed 3 times. Another mate was extremely poor (and still is really!) and passed first time. I'm not sure whether they have a quota or not or maybe some people are just lucky and others are unlucky........
alc said:
My son opted to take his driving test in his own car. He'd had a lot of lessons by a qualified instructor followed by us taking him out for practice.
On the day, off he went with the examiner along with another two hopefuls, both of whom were taking their tests in their instructors' cars. Left in the waiting room with the instructors, they both said to me - if snyone fails today it will be your son because they know we are more likely to question a failure than you are - in the conversation which ensued they made it clear that they felt strongly that passing a driving test was based on statistics rather than skill, i.e. they passed so many, failed so many, to meet targets.
So why not save the £200 and all the upset on 4 tests for your other son and pay for some driving lessons in an instructors car and according to the other instructors theory he will pass first go.
Are you sure they weren't just doing the typical wind up becuase you had dared not to use them?
As for failing four tests, maybe your son just wasn't good enough to pass on the day.
garyhun said:
This "story" of it all based on stats etc etc has been doing the rounds since time, well driving tests, began. Conspiracy theory No. 60576348
Exactly. It's a story made up by shite driving instructors to cover up why the majority of their students fail. If you drive well, they simply can't fail you. They can't make up mistakes that didn't happen. They might move the point at which they switchc from something being a minor to a major fault, but nothing more.
My driving instructor told be that there were no such things as quotas. What difference does it really make to the examiners anyway?!
As someone has said already, if they fail you, they have to have a reason and you have a right to a full explanation and further appeal if you deam it appropriate.
Not 100% sure but I thought that you could have your instructor in the back of the car if you wish, they aren't allowed to say a word though during the test.
As someone has said already, if they fail you, they have to have a reason and you have a right to a full explanation and further appeal if you deam it appropriate.
Not 100% sure but I thought that you could have your instructor in the back of the car if you wish, they aren't allowed to say a word though during the test.
I failed my first test 
which I took in the examiner's car. I took my second test in my own car and passed.
I think it helped that my car (an oldish Mini) was an absolute minter and marked me out as someone who was actually interested in cars. The examiner spent most of the test chatting to me about "the good old days" when he used to instruct people in his own Mini. I distinctly remember him excusing one of my jerky gearchanges saying "Mini clutches are tricky aren't they? I had lots of pupils who struggled with them"
which I took in the examiner's car. I took my second test in my own car and passed. I think it helped that my car (an oldish Mini) was an absolute minter and marked me out as someone who was actually interested in cars. The examiner spent most of the test chatting to me about "the good old days" when he used to instruct people in his own Mini. I distinctly remember him excusing one of my jerky gearchanges saying "Mini clutches are tricky aren't they? I had lots of pupils who struggled with them"
Given the most likely candidate will be a teenager, with all the angst against;
peer pressure/adults/more exams(just like school he left a week ago)/the world in general,
tales of quotas have been doing the rounds, since tests began,
and like an A level exam, its best to simply go in with the right kit IE: SCHOOL CAR
and just take that quota chance,
like anybody else.
Its only an hour out of your whole wretched teenage existence, and you most likely won't be seen, by your mates anyway, as most tests take place in the daylight hours.
when you go in using your moms clio, that will be the reason you failed, and not because you mounted the kerb back there, without noticing it.
peer pressure/adults/more exams(just like school he left a week ago)/the world in general,
tales of quotas have been doing the rounds, since tests began,
and like an A level exam, its best to simply go in with the right kit IE: SCHOOL CAR
and just take that quota chance,
like anybody else.
Its only an hour out of your whole wretched teenage existence, and you most likely won't be seen, by your mates anyway, as most tests take place in the daylight hours.
when you go in using your moms clio, that will be the reason you failed, and not because you mounted the kerb back there, without noticing it.
agent006 said:
This "story" of it all based on stats etc etc has been doing the rounds since time, well driving tests, began. Conspiracy theory No. 60576348
Exactly. It's a story made up by shite driving instructors to cover up why the majority of their students fail. If you drive well, they simply can't fail you. They can't make up mistakes that didn't happen. They might move the point at which they switchc from something being a minor to a major fault, but nothing more.
agreed.
i passed on my first test. best bit of advice i had was show that you were in control of the car at all times, and not the car being in control of you. i subsequently discovered i had the chief examiner for the whole area who was known for being a total bastard and failed drivers first time as a point of principle.
[quote]i passed on my first test. best bit of advice i had was show that you were in control of the car at all times, and not the car being in control of you. i subsequently discovered i had the chief examiner for the whole area who was known for being a total bastard and failed drivers first time as a point of principle.
[/quote]
i failed my test the first time, and on the second i was fairly confident until my instructor told me i had the chief examiner for the north west area!....as it turned out it was a bit of a help, and my istructor told me afterwards that the chief examiner would often overlook minor indescretions, and go more by how safe he felt with you while he was in the car.
[/quote]
i failed my test the first time, and on the second i was fairly confident until my instructor told me i had the chief examiner for the north west area!....as it turned out it was a bit of a help, and my istructor told me afterwards that the chief examiner would often overlook minor indescretions, and go more by how safe he felt with you while he was in the car.
My wife has failed so many times, on average everybody else in the UK should now pass if they are meeting targets.
At the end of one test the examiner said "never mind, you can always be a bluebell girl" as she is tall and leggy.
Perhaps she needs to couple a short skirt with the long legs?
At the end of one test the examiner said "never mind, you can always be a bluebell girl" as she is tall and leggy.
Perhaps she needs to couple a short skirt with the long legs?
In Australia you can do it via log book so you can tick off various tasks once you have proven you can do them and a sort of mini test at the end just to make sure. Much less pressure and since you are doing it whilst getting the lessons and it wont cost anymore if you were going to get lessons anyway.
You can still do the one off test if you think you good enough to pass first time though.
You can still do the one off test if you think you good enough to pass first time though.
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