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Discussion
kmpowell said:
A car built and sold BEFORE Smolenski stopped production of the Sagaris to fix all the faults....... thanks, but no thanks. Even at that price it has the potential to be too much bother to make it worth it IMO.
If that was the case why did the bonnets fly off at speed, the bonnet rubbers fall out when hot. engines prone to pinking. Seats still like a chesterfield.
I think there has been no change pre or post Smolenski.
It was sad to read last months Evo Mag.
the pits said:
I love the look of the T350 in your profile. Why so negative? Have you had a bad experience with the t350 are you just anti-sagaris?
Don't get me wrong I like the Sagaris, but that particular example which is being wowed over is too good to be true IM humble O. I personally think that car would be trouble in the long run, making the attractive price now irrelevant. Anyway. by all accounts (on another thread) it's been sold.
BTW, thanks for the comment on my T350.
kmpowell said:
A car built and sold BEFORE Smolenski stopped production of the Sagaris to fix all the faults....... thanks, but no thanks. Even at that price it has the potential to be too much bother to make it worth it IMO.
Smolenski delayed the start of production rather than stopping it. In other words no cars were ever produced (other than prototypes) prior to Smolenski changes. And IMO, Smolenski changes have made some difference, but not enough - too many silly mistakes have been/ are still being made. This apparently ex-Nivea display car looks like an absolute bargain though... as long as you live near to the factory or TVR Power
the pits said:
I love the look of the T350 in your profile. Why so negative? Have you had a bad experience with the t350 are you just anti-sagaris?
I love the Sagaris and will more than likely buy one next year and the T350 has never missed a beat. It just annoys me that TVR are so close to a Masterpeice yet let themselves down with the niggles that could have been overcome quite easy, which then leaves them wide open for all to rip apart (like evo mag)
Come on TVR we know you can do it.
I wonder sometimes if its the factory mentality (that'll do)
Well in this day and age IT WONT. There are to many good fast alternatives now.
In answer to your question Pitts. No not negative just want TVR to be more positive.
Evo gave TVR the wooden spoon for christs sake.....
Sorry kmpowell my comment was directed at yi8tvr, but as you already know, I like your t350 a lot too!
I know things could be better at TVR, but couldn't they always? If there's one thing I know there's no such thing as the perfect car. I had a Honda s2000 (bullet proof high revving engine, lovely build quality) and it was a great car but just too heavy for it's engine and consequently not fast enough. The chassis balance was great fun but very edgy in the wet and the steering lifeless. The engine is undoubtedly impressive but really wants to be in something like an Elise. Best Elise engine for 34k? 189bhp toyota block. Great fun in truth and I wouldn't mind one at all. But the Sagaris is like an Exige with 400bhp for 50k. Imagine how much lotus would charge for a 400 bhp Exige? It would be a very cool car but Lotus would charge a lot, lot more than 50k for it (45k gets you 240bhp right now) and that's if they had the balls to make it in the first place. In my experience they are a bit on the tightarsed side when it comes to power.
I aslo had a Nissan Skyline R34. Awesome car, cost 54k new in 2001. It cost another 5k on top of that to get it to 400bhp. Fantastic car once tuned but it's ride was unbearable (the only way you can get a heavy car to handle is to have it board stiff). And it's 4wheel steering system went funny. Which wasn't funny!
It could be time to start looking at what we have got and that is one hell of a lot of bang for the buck, lightweight (usually an expensive option on other cars M3 CSL anyone?) capable handling and inspired styling inside and out. And the underated benefit of the general public reacting positively to TVRs. I borrowed a friend's Porsche 996 once, lets just say never again! The best pedals and gearchange of any car I've owned and a truly bespoke speccing ability when bought new. As said a huge number of times my Sagaris is very nicely built inside. All the stitching is neatly done, the ally switchgear is stunning, the instruments work perfectly and there isn't a squeak or rattle anywhere (mind you with a quieter engine you might be able to hear something like a squeak!).
It's well known that I've had niggles like everyone else and also that there are things I'd like to see improved but after a drive like the one I had at Christmas they seem so insignificant.
I know things could be better at TVR, but couldn't they always? If there's one thing I know there's no such thing as the perfect car. I had a Honda s2000 (bullet proof high revving engine, lovely build quality) and it was a great car but just too heavy for it's engine and consequently not fast enough. The chassis balance was great fun but very edgy in the wet and the steering lifeless. The engine is undoubtedly impressive but really wants to be in something like an Elise. Best Elise engine for 34k? 189bhp toyota block. Great fun in truth and I wouldn't mind one at all. But the Sagaris is like an Exige with 400bhp for 50k. Imagine how much lotus would charge for a 400 bhp Exige? It would be a very cool car but Lotus would charge a lot, lot more than 50k for it (45k gets you 240bhp right now) and that's if they had the balls to make it in the first place. In my experience they are a bit on the tightarsed side when it comes to power.
I aslo had a Nissan Skyline R34. Awesome car, cost 54k new in 2001. It cost another 5k on top of that to get it to 400bhp. Fantastic car once tuned but it's ride was unbearable (the only way you can get a heavy car to handle is to have it board stiff). And it's 4wheel steering system went funny. Which wasn't funny!
It could be time to start looking at what we have got and that is one hell of a lot of bang for the buck, lightweight (usually an expensive option on other cars M3 CSL anyone?) capable handling and inspired styling inside and out. And the underated benefit of the general public reacting positively to TVRs. I borrowed a friend's Porsche 996 once, lets just say never again! The best pedals and gearchange of any car I've owned and a truly bespoke speccing ability when bought new. As said a huge number of times my Sagaris is very nicely built inside. All the stitching is neatly done, the ally switchgear is stunning, the instruments work perfectly and there isn't a squeak or rattle anywhere (mind you with a quieter engine you might be able to hear something like a squeak!).
It's well known that I've had niggles like everyone else and also that there are things I'd like to see improved but after a drive like the one I had at Christmas they seem so insignificant.
yi8tvr said:
I love the look of the T350 in your profile. Why so negative? Have you had a bad experience with the t350 are you just anti-sagaris?
I love the Sagaris and will more than likely buy one next year and the T350 has never missed a beat. It just annoys me that TVR are so close to a Masterpeice yet let themselves down with the niggles that could have been overcome quite easy, which then leaves them wide open for all to rip apart (like evo mag)
Come on TVR we know you can do it.
I wonder sometimes if its the factory mentality (that'll do)
Well in this day and age IT WONT. There are to many good fast alternatives now.
In answer to your question Pitts. No not negative just want TVR to be more positive.
Evo gave TVR the wooden spoon for christs sake.....
Its interesting that you say "there are too many good fast alternatives now", because over the xmas break, me & my mate got to thinking," what if TVR didnt exist? " What would we aspire to? None of us fancy the German thing, we're not in the Ferrari league & things like Exiges & Nobles are just too track orientated ( & they dont make the right noise! )
Having said all that, i do generally share your thoughts
cirvy said:
Its interesting that you say "there are too many good fast alternatives now", because over the xmas break, me & my mate got to thinking," what if TVR didnt exist? " What would we aspire to? None of us fancy the German thing, we're not in the Ferrari league & things like Exiges & Nobles are just too track orientated ( & they dont make the right noise! )
Having said all that, i do generally share your thoughts
Firstly, so nobody misunderstands me, I LOVE the Sagaris to death. Very nearly bought one last year in exchange for my 355.
I had to comment on your comment about Ferrari in the above post in terms of fast, affordable (if im interpreting you correctly) alternatives. The F355 - plenty of cars for sale in the 40-45K bracket. OK it only does 0-62 in 4.6, but its certainly depreciated quite fast recently to become a very affordable fast alternative and a very well balanced and sorted car.
ade355 said:
Its interesting that you say "there are too many good fast alternatives now", because over the xmas break, me & my mate got to thinking," what if TVR didnt exist? " What would we aspire to? None of us fancy the German thing, we're not in the Ferrari league & things like Exiges & Nobles are just too track orientated ( & they dont make the right noise! )
Having said all that, i do generally share your thoughts
Firstly, so nobody misunderstands me, I LOVE the Sagaris to death. Very nearly bought one last year in exchange for my 355.
I had to comment on your comment about Ferrari in the above post in terms of fast, affordable (if im interpreting you correctly) alternatives. The F355 - plenty of cars for sale in the 40-45K bracket. OK it only does 0-62 in 4.6, but its certainly depreciated quite fast recently to become a very affordable fast alternative and a very well balanced and sorted car.
As i understand it, with Ferraris isn't it the running costs that are in the next league, rather than the purchase price?
Yes. Cambelt changes required every few years and are an engine out job among others. That could easily be 4k depending on where you have it done.
Far more important though is how much more fun the Saggy is to drive. The best thing about the 355 is the noise when the loud exhaust valve opens. They do give good tunnel. Other than that, in my experience it's inferior as an instrument of driving pleasure in every other way. For one thing it's a lovely engine that's wasted in a heavy car. ie it's a low torque, high rpm engine in a heavy car. Result is much slower than you'd expect for the money, plus poor overtaking ability. Against the stopwatch F355's are ok because they are revvd to death. It's a different story on the road. You have to do just that to get it to go - rev it to death. Ferrari just don't get lightness (outside of their megabucks specials like F40). They openly admit their cars are designed to be 'super gt's' which means they're made for long motorway blasts. Hence the slow steering (at 120+mph slow steering has some use) but for the rest of the time it's worse. Their cars (to be fair I haven't driven a F430) have nothing like the response or agility of the Sagaris. A 355 isn't as grippy either and doesn't have the neutral balance of the Sagaris. I owned one for 2 years and it never gave me the thrill or grin you get from driving a TVR. The bloody throttle stuck open too once and it was a meticulously maintained car bought it from new in case anyone was wondering.
I wouldn't swap my Slag for stable full of poncing horses.
Far more important though is how much more fun the Saggy is to drive. The best thing about the 355 is the noise when the loud exhaust valve opens. They do give good tunnel. Other than that, in my experience it's inferior as an instrument of driving pleasure in every other way. For one thing it's a lovely engine that's wasted in a heavy car. ie it's a low torque, high rpm engine in a heavy car. Result is much slower than you'd expect for the money, plus poor overtaking ability. Against the stopwatch F355's are ok because they are revvd to death. It's a different story on the road. You have to do just that to get it to go - rev it to death. Ferrari just don't get lightness (outside of their megabucks specials like F40). They openly admit their cars are designed to be 'super gt's' which means they're made for long motorway blasts. Hence the slow steering (at 120+mph slow steering has some use) but for the rest of the time it's worse. Their cars (to be fair I haven't driven a F430) have nothing like the response or agility of the Sagaris. A 355 isn't as grippy either and doesn't have the neutral balance of the Sagaris. I owned one for 2 years and it never gave me the thrill or grin you get from driving a TVR. The bloody throttle stuck open too once and it was a meticulously maintained car bought it from new in case anyone was wondering.
I wouldn't swap my Slag for stable full of poncing horses.
Thats a fair point ! However, like all these things its kinda exaggerated a little in my experience - assuming you have a well sorted and looked after car . Its just regular servicing at £450 for an annual, you can do belts (every 3 years) for under £1000 if you want to (depends on method used). A manual car eats fewer clutches. Everything else is pretty much normal as per any sport car.
However, like all these things its kinda exaggerated a little in my experience - assuming you have a well sorted and looked after car . Its just regular servicing at £450 for an annual, you can do belts (every 3 years) for under £1000 if you want to (depends on method used). A manual car eats fewer clutches. Everything else is pretty much normal as per any sport car. To be fair, the 355 is an old car now & probably should be compared to a RV8 engined TVR. Sagaris's on the other hand, can only really be compared to things like a 360, but they are in another league money wise.
Incidently, has anyone else seen Clarkson Heaven & Hell, there's some good footage of a Sagaris simply murdering a Corvette, great viewing for all Saggy fans & only cost £4.00 from Tesco
Incidently, has anyone else seen Clarkson Heaven & Hell, there's some good footage of a Sagaris simply murdering a Corvette, great viewing for all Saggy fans & only cost £4.00 from Tesco
the pits said:
Yes. Cambelt changes required every few years and are an engine out job among others. That could easily be 4k depending on where you have it done.
Far more important though is how much more fun the Saggy is to drive. The best thing about the 355 is the noise when the loud exhaust valve opens. They do give good tunnel. Other than that, in my experience it's inferior as an instrument of driving pleasure in every other way. For one thing it's a lovely engine that's wasted in a heavy car. ie it's a low torque, high rpm engine in a heavy car. Result is much slower than you'd expect for the money, plus poor overtaking ability. Against the stopwatch F355's are ok because they are revvd to death. It's a different story on the road. You have to do just that to get it to go - rev it to death. Ferrari just don't get lightness (outside of their megabucks specials like F40). They openly admit their cars are designed to be 'super gt's' which means they're made for long motorway blasts. Hence the slow steering (at 120+mph slow steering has some use) but for the rest of the time it's worse. Their cars (to be fair I haven't driven a F430) have nothing like the response or agility of the Sagaris. A 355 isn't as grippy either and doesn't have the neutral balance of the Sagaris. I owned one for 2 years and it never gave me the thrill or grin you get from driving a TVR. The bloody throttle stuck open too once and it was a meticulously maintained car bought it from new in case anyone was wondering.
I wouldn't swap my Slag for stable full of poncing horses.
Blimey, that aint a great review
But each to there own I suppose. I cant really do the 'done thing' and retort by slagging off the Sagaris in return, as I really do love it (damn)
cirvy said:
Incidently, has anyone else seen Clarkson Heaven & Hell, there's some good footage of a Sagaris simply murdering a Corvette, great viewing for all Saggy fans & only cost £4.00 from Tesco
Yeah, but didn't he conclude the Vauxhall Monaro was the best of the three?
(i switched off at this point in disgust so did not see the whole piece)witty said:
Incidently, has anyone else seen Clarkson Heaven & Hell, there's some good footage of a Sagaris simply murdering a Corvette, great viewing for all Saggy fans & only cost £4.00 from Tesco
Yeah, but didn't he conclude the Vauxhall Monaro was the best of the three?
I think the monaro thing was just a bit of special JC journo irony, lets face it, he does it with everything he tests, it always starts off rubbish & then is miraculously fantastic, or the other way round depending on the wind direction, remember, entertainment first, facts second!
Urgent Harry said:I see you've not added any cars to your profile yet Martin? Not jumped off the fence yet?
A car built and sold BEFORE Smolenski stopped production of the Sagaris to fix all the faults....... thanks, but no thanks. Even at that price it has the potential to be too much bother to make it worth it IMO.
Smolenski delayed the start of production rather than stopping it. etc...
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