Railways in Britain

[m1spw]

This isn't an excuse to complain about how late your train was this morning, or the state of the British rail network .

When did the rail network in the UK become used for transporting goods such as coal etc?
When were we first linked to Europe by rail - was it when the Eurotunnel was built or did something precede this?

Thanks

[Smart roadster]

Do your own home work

The railways were originally set up to carry goods, passengers were secondary. Before the tunnel there were rail ferries. Not sure how they worked but my guess is shunt all the wagons on a ferry sail to france hook up another engine and off you go.

[grahamw48]

Trains ?

Are they those long noisy things that rich people travel on ?

Those were the days....£3.50 ... York-London return, and sometimes, if you were lucky, your own compartment to shag your bird in.

[Parrot of Doom]

I believe the first railways were used to haul coal up hills, and were powered by horses and waterwheels.

[dilbert]

Parrot of Doom said:

I believe the first railways were used to haul coal up hills, and were powered by horses and waterwheels.

Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail.

I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal.

>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54

[dougc]

dilbert said:

Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal. >> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54

What about the canals?

[Flat in Fifth]

dougc said:

dilbert said: Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal. >> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54 What about the canals?

likewise first canal in England at least was built by the Duke of Bridgewater in order to haul coal.

I am intrigued by the motivation behind the original question.

[Code Monkey]

Flat in Fifth said:

dougc said: dilbert said: Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal. >> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54 What about the canals? likewise first canal in England at least was built by the Duke of Bridgewater in order to haul coal. I am intrigued by the motivation behind the original question.

GCSE history?
sorry couldn't resist. tried but failed.
I'll get my coat.

>> Edited by Code Monkey on Thursday 5th January 17:25

[dilbert]

Flat in Fifth said:

dougc said: dilbert said: Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal. >> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54 What about the canals? likewise first canal in England at least was built by the Duke of Bridgewater in order to haul coal. I am intrigued by the motivation behind the original question.

A very good point indeed! Don't know much about canals, but I was intrigued the other day when Mr Dibnah was going on about lock (loch?) gates. I never realised that the gates actually float.

[blueyes]

m1spw said:

This isn't an excuse to complain about how late your train was this morning, or the state of the British rail network . When did the rail network in the UK become used for transporting goods such as coal etc? When were we first linked to Europe by rail - was it when the Eurotunnel was built or did something precede this? Thanks

Right, first answer is 1872. Railways had been in personal use (small branch lines for the wealthy) for some time before this but were linked nationally after the increase in demand for freight transportation of products which needed to reach their destination quickly. eg: From the North- black puddings, haggis, and cow steam. From the South- clotted cream, dairylea slices, and horse sweat.

Second answer: originally the U.K. was linked to the EU in 1893, via the Isle of Wight and Jersey to the West coast of France by a system of floating wood bridges. Balsa wood was used as it possessed incredible lightness and buoyancy. Unfortunately it was very flammable caught fire 2 years later and was totally destroyed. Investigations showed it was caused by a pumpkin lantern falling from the train hence all of the precautions taken against fire in the current Eurotunnel.

[puggit]

dougc said:

dilbert said: Agreed. Obviously the very earliest railways were a bit higgledy piggledy. Originally they were horse drawn to get minerals, I guess mainly coal, out of mines. When they became more like we're used to today, there was no other means of getting the fuel to drive the railway, i.e. coal, around other than by rail. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that the railway was originally for coal. >> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 5th January 14:54 What about the canals?

Used to carry water - obvious really

[m1spw]

Code Monkey said:

Flat in Fifth said: I am intrigued by the motivation behind the original question. {small]GCSE history?{/small] sorry couldn't resist. tried but failed. I'll get my coat.

Nope, not history. I'm writing about different methods of transport available to move cars across the UK and Europe. Its very boring...

Thanks for your answers!

[Flat in Fifth]

m1spw said:

When were we first linked to Europe by rail - was it when the Eurotunnel was built or did something precede this?

Ignoring the balsa wood bridge :ahem: "answer" Still quite amusing though.

The boat train / train ferry?
I remember seeing a painting of this.

Collaboration between Southern Railways and SNCF, Dover-Dunkirk.

Boat docked in a dock (errr ... obviously) where water level could be adjusted so that train carriages could be run on and off the ship.

This afaik was only done on the "Night Ferry". The Golden Arrow used two trains and the passengers, shock - horror - probe, had to walk train > ferry and ferry > train at each end of the sea journey.

FiF

[richb]

blueyes said:

m1spw said: This isn't an excuse to complain about how late your train was this morning, or the state of the British rail network . When did the rail network in the UK become used for transporting goods such as coal etc? When were we first linked to Europe by rail - was it when the Eurotunnel was built or did something precede this? Thanks Right, first answer is 1872. Railways had been in personal use (small branch lines for the wealthy) for some time before this but were linked nationally after the increase in demand for freight transportation of products which needed to reach their destination quickly. eg: From the North- black puddings, haggis, and cow steam. From the South- clotted cream, dairylea slices, and horse sweat. Second answer: originally the U.K. was linked to the EU in 1893, via the Isle of Wight and Jersey to the West coast of France by a system of floating wood bridges. Balsa wood was used as it possessed incredible lightness and buoyancy. Unfortunately it was very flammable caught fire 2 years later and was totally destroyed. Investigations showed it was caused by a pumpkin lantern falling from the train hence all of the precautions taken against fire in the current Eurotunnel.

Wow, you nearly had me fooled but because I know the GWR was built by Brunel in 1835 therefore I suspect the rest of your answer may be wrong?

[bigandclever]

Flat in Fifth said:

m1spw said: When were we first linked to Europe by rail - was it when the Eurotunnel was built or did something precede this? Ignoring the balsa wood bridge :ahem: "answer" Still quite amusing though. The boat train / train ferry? I remember seeing a painting of this. Collaboration between Southern Railways and SNCF, Dover-Dunkirk. Boat docked in a dock (errr ... obviously) where water level could be adjusted so that train carriages could be run on and off the ship. This afaik was only done on the "Night Ferry". The Golden Arrow used two trains and the passengers, shock - horror - probe, had to walk train > ferry and ferry > train at each end of the sea journey. FiF

And the "when?" was 1936. You can steal pictures of the SS Canterbury and the SS Invicta used from here www.doverpages.co.uk/dover/ferries/ferries.htm

[richb]

According to this site www.semg.org.uk/misc/named_12.html they were running named 'boat trains' in 1931 but it is unclear if the carriages actually went across on the boat, although I agree I am sure they did. Rich...

[towman]

Parrot of Doom said:

I believe the first railways were used to haul coal up hills, and were powered by horses and waterwheels.

Disagree.

The first railways wre used to haul coal/slate/clay DOWNHILL. Two parallel tracks with wagons on cables - the loaded (heavier) wagon would haul the empty one up when released.

According to the god that is Mark Williams anyway!

[bigandclever]

towman said:

Parrot of Doom said: I believe the first railways were used to haul coal up hills, and were powered by horses and waterwheels. Disagree. The first railways wre used to haul coal/slate/clay DOWNHILL. Two parallel tracks with wagons on cables - the loaded (heavier) wagon would haul the empty one up when released. According to the god that is Mark Williams anyway!

Nah, my mate Wikipedia reckons "The Diolkos was a 6-km long railway that transported boats across the Corinth isthmus in Greece in the 6th century BC. Trucks pushed by slaves ran in grooves in a limestone track. The Diolkos ran for over 1300 years, until 900 AD."

[richb]

I suspect one will never know because I am sure there were also single track railways running slate down the welsh mountains etc. that didn't have the complication of a counter running line to take the trucks back up and ponies were used instead. Anyway his question was more about a country-wide network of railways and that was probabaly mid-late 1800's Rich...

[grahamw48]

Well, the world's first PASSENGER railway (Stockton to Darlington 1825) is only about a mile from my house, and still in use, though it's founder George Stephenson has passed on I believe.