Wireless networking

[randtis]

Apols for starting a new thread but want to make sure I've figured this out right.

Recently bought a new computer, so now have two (one XP one 98) and would like internet access on both, but don't (or don't need) to have the computers networked to each other.

Rcommendation seems to be Netgear, and from poking around PC World it looks like I need:

1 of these
www.netgear.co.uk/wireless_broadband_router_dg834gt.php

and 2 of these, which just plug into the USB sockets
www.netgear.co.uk/wireless_networkadapter_wg111t.php

Does it matter if the 98 machine only has USB 1? Is that a limiting factor?

Am I right in thinking 54 mbps is equivalent to about 7 meg broadband? and is a 108 mbps set-up therefore overkill?

Also is there any advantage to this new techy router? www.netgear.co.uk/wireless_modem_router_dg834pn.php

Not envisaging being out in the garden with laptops, but may in time want to connect a games console (PS2), which needs one of these
www.netgear.co.uk/gaming_adapter.php I think

Now if I've understood this right this will render the old BB modem obselete?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

Cheers

[Red V8]

Personally, I recently switched out my Netgear stuff with Belkin, which is dead easy to configure and I no longer get the hardware compatibility issues that I did with Netgear.

I use 3 machines, one Win98 (Second Edition) one XP Pro and a Win2K Laptop... all which have access to the internet through my wireless router, and all can see each other on the network.

[bogie]

the DG834PN gives better range and coverage...to be honest, the DG834G 54Mbps jobbie is fine for most people

You are right re the adapters - all it means if you have a USB1.1 port is that you are limited to 12Mbps throughput - your broadband link will always be bottleneck anyway

[roadsweeper]

bogie said:

the DG834PN gives better range and coverage

[nubbin]

roadsweeper said:

bogie said: the DG834PN gives better range and coverage

I've just spent a few hours configuring and setting up with my new DG834PN, and it's no better than my old router. Very frustrating as I fully expected a much better signal. The only thing I can think of is that the cordless phone sitting near the router (about a metre away)is interfering with the signal, so I'll move that and try again later. (Didn't have time today as I had to get back to work.)

[scorp]

I'd recommend US Robotics routers, very reliable. Ive had 3 in the past (netgear, etc) and they proved to be most unreliable.

[bogie]

nubbin said:

roadsweeper said: bogie said: the DG834PN gives better range and coverage I've just spent a few hours configuring and setting up with my new DG834PN, and it's no better than my old router. Very frustrating as I fully expected a much better signal. The only thing I can think of is that the cordless phone sitting near the router (about a metre away)is interfering with the signal, so I'll move that and try again later. (Didn't have time today as I had to get back to work.)

but what scientific method are you using to measure it? the signal strength indicator in windows is very poor...also what adapter and driver version are you running?

You really want to use something like IXChariot to measure throughput at a given range...I think you will find it vastly improved....ive tested it myself and its nearly double what you get from 802.11g stuff

[nubbin]

bogie said:

nubbin said: roadsweeper said: bogie said: the DG834PN gives better range and coverage I've just spent a few hours configuring and setting up with my new DG834PN, and it's no better than my old router. Very frustrating as I fully expected a much better signal. The only thing I can think of is that the cordless phone sitting near the router (about a metre away)is interfering with the signal, so I'll move that and try again later. (Didn't have time today as I had to get back to work.) but what scientific method are you using to measure it? the signal strength indicator in windows is very poor...also what adapter and driver version are you running? You really want to use something like IXChariot to measure throughput at a given range...I think you will find it vastly improved....ive tested it myself and its nearly double what you get from 802.11g stuff

I'm not measuring - just trying to get the internet on all the PCs - that's my sole measure of signal quality!

I didn't have chance earlier to check for updated drivers etc. and I haven't changed the PCI cards in the PCs - so I'm perhaps not getting the maximum performance I could - however, moving one of the PCs across a room, bringing it closer to the site of the router, did improve the signal. I suspect I'll be getting a bit more exercise tonight trotting up and down stairs getting it to work!

I'll try downloading the evaluation freebie for IXChariot and see what that looks like as well....

[bogie]

ah - right...if you are using your old cards you wont get all the benefits of the MIMO antennas etc - the drivers arnt optimised to use certain features such as Adaptive and Extended Radio on the Atheros chipsets. Another thing with PCI cards is that unless you have external antennas on the desktop you generally end up with an antenna stuck up against a wall between a brick wall and the metal case of a PC - not good.

I think youd get much better results with USB adapters on extension leads (they come with self adhesive brackets also so you can mount them high up etc) - something like the WPN111. www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=2048

Or buy some external antennas cheap and put them on the desktop.

The thing with the MIMO based solutions is that they arnt about increasing the range by 5x etc...they are all about maintaining a quality connection with better throughput at a given range...you do get range benefits of course - in free air maybe 30% further out, but what matters most is that when the 802.11g 54Mbps stuff has dropped away to like 5Mbps connection at 10M the MIMO based 108Mbps stuff will still be giving like 20Mbps +.

Its very difficult within the legal limit for 802.11g RF transmission of 20dBm to make it go through 3 solid walls instead of 2 walls etc ...what you can do with MIMO stuff is bounce the signal around obstacles - e.g. you could find that if you leave a door open between rooms you get a better quality as it will bounce the signal through that way - Ive demonstrated this myself with 7 steel reinforced concrete walls between 2 rooms, doors open - great signal strength (signals bouncing down the corridor) then shut the door to the room and the signal disappears.

[nubbin]

Morning bogie - thanks for your post last night. The network is up and running, with reasonable strength signals - I can stream video perfectly well from the internet without pauses etc. I will have a look now at upgrading the PC antennae, as you're absolutely right in saying that there's no point buying new technology unless I'm maximising it's benefits. Still, the kids will be able to use their webcams, so they'll be happy!

Will I get better performance from new Rangemax PCI cards, the USB adapters, or does it not make much difference? (The key factor here might might be that two PCs don't have USB 2.0 facilities)

>> Edited by nubbin on Tuesday 10th January 08:35

[randtis]

I may have a look at the Belkin stuff, I've bought a few of their products over the years and they have always been good.

I assume that 108 mbps (or whatever the equiptment max is) is only acheived with no / minimal obstructions? So the further away you are the slower transfer rates become? The signal will have to go through one partition wall only into the study room where both the computers are, so signal strength shouldn't drop off too much hopefully.

If I've figured this right, 12 mbps (for USB 1.1) is about 1.5 MB/sec? So the 98 machine will run just fine, but if we get faster broadband (4 or 8 Meg) the USB adapter becomes a limiting factor? Whereas on the XP USB 2 means it can transfer, well, a lot more! So would a PCI card be easier / faster and is it easy to fit / install?

Thanks for the heads up with the cheap router, but tbh having a pcmcia card is a waste, especially when I can get everything I need in one box.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, I think this fancy gear (either Netgear or Belkin 125 mbps) is the best to look at for future proofing and especially with ever increasing broadband speeds.

Cheers

[bogie]

nubbin said:

Morning bogie - thanks for your post last night. The network is up and running, with reasonable strength signals - I can stream video perfectly well from the internet without pauses etc. I will have a look now at upgrading the PC antennae, as you're absolutely right in saying that there's no point buying new technology unless I'm maximising it's benefits. Still, the kids will be able to use their webcams, so they'll be happy! Will I get better performance from new Rangemax PCI cards, the USB adapters, or does it not make much difference? (The key factor here might might be that two PCs don't have USB 2.0 facilities) >> Edited by nubbin on Tuesday 10th January 08:35

I prefer the USB adapters (WPN111) - you can always get a USB2.0 PCI board for about a tenner to add 4 USB2.0 ports to the PCs (worth it for an update) ..they come with extension leads and holders so you can move them around more

[bogie]

randtis said:

I may have a look at the Belkin stuff, I've bought a few of their products over the years and they have always been good. I assume that 108 mbps (or whatever the equiptment max is) is only acheived with no / minimal obstructions? So the further away you are the slower transfer rates become? The signal will have to go through one partition wall only into the study room where both the computers are, so signal strength shouldn't drop off too much hopefully. Yes - correct, its the same with any 802.11 technology - the further away the more the speed drops off...but the 108Mbps stuff maintains higher speed at a given range. If I've figured this right, 12 mbps (for USB 1.1) is about 1.5 MB/sec? So the 98 machine will run just fine, but if we get faster broadband (4 or 8 Meg) the USB adapter becomes a limiting factor? Whereas on the XP USB 2 means it can transfer, well, a lot more! So would a PCI card be easier / faster and is it easy to fit / install? Yes - thats right - but as above post - a USB2.0 PCI card is about £10-15 and worth having anyway Thanks for the heads up with the cheap router, but tbh having a pcmcia card is a waste, especially when I can get everything I need in one box. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, I think this fancy gear (either Netgear or Belkin 125 mbps) is the best to look at for future proofing and especially with ever increasing broadband speeds. Cheers

If you have ADSL then the DG834PN is a good choice - ADSL2+ compliant up to 24Mbps

[Red V8]

My Belkin goes up 3 floors and across the street... strong signal and very decent range!

[bigdods]

randtis said:

I may have a look at the Belkin stuff, I've bought a few of their products over the years and they have always been good. If I've figured this right, 12 mbps (for USB 1.1) is about 1.5 MB/sec? So the 98 machine will run just fine, but if we get faster broadband (4 or 8 Meg) the USB adapter becomes a limiting factor? Whereas on the XP USB 2 means it can transfer, well, a lot more! So would a PCI card be easier / faster and is it easy to fit / install?

Nope. Broadband is also measured in megabits per second - 12Mbps USB 1 exceeds current broadband speed by a comfortable margin as the max is 8Mbps. Of course if you are able to receive one of the new high speed services at 24Mbps then you may need to think again. For me living in the sticks Im stuck with 2Mbps so its not a factor