Bird Flu - Precautions
Discussion
According to last weeks New Scientist a number of flu experts are stockpiling antiviral drugs.
Now assuming this is true and assuming they work, how do you get hold of some?
I don't think you can wander into a Doctors here and ask for a double dose for the entire family?
So you can buy on the net - from an un-official source and may get a fake.
Anyone have any thoughts on how to do this?
Now assuming this is true and assuming they work, how do you get hold of some?
I don't think you can wander into a Doctors here and ask for a double dose for the entire family?
So you can buy on the net - from an un-official source and may get a fake.
Anyone have any thoughts on how to do this?
You can get tamiflu from here. www.europharma2u.co.uk/?spg=product&expand=21
Then you can sell it on e-bay to morons for 5 times what you paid for it every time there's a headline about Bird Flu.
>> Edited by timmy30 on Monday 9th January 18:33
Then you can sell it on e-bay to morons for 5 times what you paid for it every time there's a headline about Bird Flu.
>> Edited by timmy30 on Monday 9th January 18:33
It's already happening:
www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2005/09/30/tamiflu20050930.html
CBC said:
Bird flu in Vietnam resisting Tamiflu
Last Updated Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:31:13 EDT
CBC News
Experts in Hong Kong warn that the human strain of the H5N1 bird flu that surfaced in Vietnam is showing resistance to the antiviral drug Tamiflu. Countries around the world are stockpiling Tamiflu to ward off a looming flu pandemic that could kill millions of people.
Boxes of Tamiflu in Sulianti Saroso Infectious Disease Hospital in Jakarta, Indonesia, Sept 28. (File: Dimas Ardian / Getty Images)
"There are now resistant H5N1 strains appearing, and we can't totally rely on one drug (Tamiflu)," said William Chui, honorary associate professor with the department of pharmacology at the Queen Mary Hospital in Hong Kong.
Drug manufacturers were urged to make more effective versions of Relenza, an inhaled antiviral that is also known to be effective in battling the much feared H5N1.
Chui also said general viral resistance to Tamiflu was growing in Japan, where doctors habitually prescribe the drug to fight the common influenza.
Phil
zoidberg said:
People stockpiling Tamiflu will only lead to drug-resistant strains of the virus. Tests suggest that the recommended dosage may not be strong enough to do anything about H5N1, and the course should be started within 48 hours of infection.
Yes but it's doing marvels for the Roche share price
as always there is an element of truth in everything said.
Yes people using any drug and not completing the course can lead to resistant variants.
Yes you could sell it on ebay, yes you can avoid birds, etc etc.
My point was more that if you wanted to buy it then could you legally - and it seems the answer to the question is yes - thankyou.
Whether it is right (morally, etc) to do this is a question I will leave to another thread.
Whether these drugs work I will also leave to another thread.
Do I personally trust New Scientist more than the daily rags - yes indeed
Are they always right - maybe not, but I am sure they know a lot more flu experts than any of the media hacks
Will I be buying some - not decided, from a quick google it looks like it would be £160 per person which if it works, and the pandemic comes is priceless.
If the pandemic does come then it doesn't then the £160 is not going to matter much anyway!
If it does not come then £160 down the drain.....
Yes people using any drug and not completing the course can lead to resistant variants.
Yes you could sell it on ebay, yes you can avoid birds, etc etc.
My point was more that if you wanted to buy it then could you legally - and it seems the answer to the question is yes - thankyou.
Whether it is right (morally, etc) to do this is a question I will leave to another thread.
Whether these drugs work I will also leave to another thread.
Do I personally trust New Scientist more than the daily rags - yes indeed
Are they always right - maybe not, but I am sure they know a lot more flu experts than any of the media hacks
Will I be buying some - not decided, from a quick google it looks like it would be £160 per person which if it works, and the pandemic comes is priceless.
If the pandemic does come then it doesn't then the £160 is not going to matter much anyway!
If it does not come then £160 down the drain.....
Several points:
1) How would you know when to medicate yourself (bearing in mind tamiflu is only effective in the very early stages of flu)..... are they doing bird flu home diagnostic kits?
2) How would you know what dose to use, what the interactions are likely to be and what counter indications you should look for?
3) There's no evidence in the literature that tamiflu is in any way effective against avian flu.
4) There's a good chance that unregulated self medication would select for drug resistant strains of the virus.
5) Self medication when you don't know what you are doing is a pretty dumb thing to do!
1) How would you know when to medicate yourself (bearing in mind tamiflu is only effective in the very early stages of flu)..... are they doing bird flu home diagnostic kits?
2) How would you know what dose to use, what the interactions are likely to be and what counter indications you should look for?
3) There's no evidence in the literature that tamiflu is in any way effective against avian flu.
4) There's a good chance that unregulated self medication would select for drug resistant strains of the virus.
5) Self medication when you don't know what you are doing is a pretty dumb thing to do!
Can I ask what you are doing to protect yourself from the hundreds of other things that are already a clear and present danger to you that would rank far more highly in the pecking order than something that isnt even here yet?
I take it you already have stocks of AZT, ddI, ddC, 3TC & d4T just in case you see someone on TV that is HIV?
I take it you already have stocks of AZT, ddI, ddC, 3TC & d4T just in case you see someone on TV that is HIV?
D_Mike said:
It's a lot harder for viruses to develop resistance than it is for bacteria though, I think, for several reasons.
Viruses are a lot harder to treat using drugs than bacteria and the few treatments which are available are not very effective.
The rate at which viruses develop drug resistance is not that well understood. The antivirals available are not used on a large scale. Those that are used such as the multiple antivirals given to HIV patients showed drug resistance quite early on. The same has also been seen with Tamiflu.
You would expect retro-viruses (like HIV) and RNA viruses (like flu) to undergo multiple mutations at every round of replication due to the high error rate during translation in the case of RNA virues and even more errors in reverse transcription, transcription and then translation in the case of retro viruses. Many virues show antigenic drift to escape our immune system and its unlikely that drug binding sites will also remain identical between replications if there's a selective pressure...
As for avoiding bird flu...... avoid birds!
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