From now on...
Discussion
..will Elises all be high power 189bhp Toyota engined? Obviously the K-series is gone but can't Lotus find another 1.8 (or use the Toyota lump in other states of tune) for lesser powered models? It seems that if all Elises are pushing nearly 200bhp then Lotus has joined the 'power-war' that plagues German high performance cars.
Does anybody know Lotus's long term plan?
Does anybody know Lotus's long term plan?
No - the base model used later in the year is as far as we know, the same 1.8 toyota engine in the non-vtec celica. ie 140 bhp.
However, most of us here think the 189 bhp 111r is underpowered and sort of hoped for a faster version! Even the 240R did not quite cut it. So yes, we are all obsessed with speed, but still want the car light.
However, most of us here think the 189 bhp 111r is underpowered and sort of hoped for a faster version! Even the 240R did not quite cut it. So yes, we are all obsessed with speed, but still want the car light.
shangani said:
No - the base model used later in the year is as far as we know, the same 1.8 toyota engine in the non-vtec celica. ie 140 bhp.
However, most of us here think the 189 bhp 111r is underpowered and sort of hoped for a faster version! Even the 240R did not quite cut it. So yes, we are all obsessed with speed, but still want the car light.
Well spoken Shang, I'm all with you on this matter
lightweight and direkt power, that way a fine trackcar and also sportcar worthy on normal roads in a straight line too, and you can use power as an excuse for a "safe" pass
Judging by the stories of written off cars every winter (and I'm touching lots of wooden objects as I type!), more power is not necessarily the best thing! A 120bhp model is enough for many (even if I was seduced into the VVC when I signed up) at the asking price. Autocar reckon £24K is the target price for a non-VVTLi model using the 140bhp lump from the MR2. Some say it's too heavy but should be comparable with the original VX220 motor (probably lighter as it has 400cc less).
Also, this week's Autocar suggests that Lotus want to compete directly with the MX5 and sell something for closer to £20K. In any case I think a cheaper model is needed to replace the old K-cars, it was the low price that drew me into owning and the chance of buying new that removed the worries (mostly unfounded but still there in my mind and many others) of a previous-owner-thrashed car. Remember these aren't shopping cars.
Also, this week's Autocar suggests that Lotus want to compete directly with the MX5 and sell something for closer to £20K. In any case I think a cheaper model is needed to replace the old K-cars, it was the low price that drew me into owning and the chance of buying new that removed the worries (mostly unfounded but still there in my mind and many others) of a previous-owner-thrashed car. Remember these aren't shopping cars.
If you read the threads, many of the ones written off have been standard (at least in terms of power). Blokes who mod theirs down the line tend to have gotten well used to them by the time they drastically increase the power. You have a point with off the shelf power though.
Oddly enough, the most consistent stepping out of the back end I have experienced was on an S2 exige on a mildly damp road - every time the vtec kicked in. Frankly I preferred the more linear power of the 111s.
Oddly enough, the most consistent stepping out of the back end I have experienced was on an S2 exige on a mildly damp road - every time the vtec kicked in. Frankly I preferred the more linear power of the 111s.
shangani said:
Oddly enough, the most consistent stepping out of the back end I have experienced was on an S2 exige on a mildly damp road - every time the vtec kicked in. Frankly I preferred the more linear power of the 111s.
Makes sense, that's why I chose the K-series over the yota (the 111R had just been launched when I bought mine, 2 grand price drop of the 111S helped as well!), was worried that it was too much to handle with my experience (first RWD, let along mid-engined car). I've seen people go straight to powerful cars not long after passing their test and it's not always great to accept a lift from them! Far better in my experience to learn about conserving momentum than just flooring the pedal out of corners.
>> Edited by kevin ritson on Wednesday 11th January 21:18
shangani said:
No - the base model used later in the year is as far as we know, the same 1.8 toyota engine in the non-vtec celica. ie 140 bhp.
However, most of us here think the 189 bhp 111r is underpowered and sort of hoped for a faster version! Even the 240R did not quite cut it. So yes, we are all obsessed with speed, but still want the car light.
It's not underpowered it's just become to heavy. The new Elises are almost as heavy as my Honda Civic.Sad.
shangani said:
If you read the threads, many of the ones written off have been standard (at least in terms of power). Blokes who mod theirs down the line tend to have gotten well used to them by the time they drastically increase the power. You have a point with off the shelf power though.
Oddly enough, the most consistent stepping out of the back end I have experienced was on an S2 exige on a mildly damp road - every time the vtec kicked in. Frankly I preferred the more linear power of the 111s.
I think it's fine, you just have to learn how to use it.
I am not knocking the exige - I just do not particularly like the power delivery of the toyota engine. Power arrives is a big lump, but only over a really small rev range - you have to really rev the guts out of the engineto get it to perfom. For similar reasons I prefer the ivtec honda engines to the honda s2000 engine. Each to their own, but when you are giving a car beans, it may not be the safest form of power delivery.
Drive a honda powered exige and you will immediately notice the consistency across the rev range. One can always "learn" to get around these things, but look at my initial comment in the context of the thread.
Drive a honda powered exige and you will immediately notice the consistency across the rev range. One can always "learn" to get around these things, but look at my initial comment in the context of the thread.
I really like my 111R and have massive respect for it's ability.
In my opinion the 111R and Exige don't need more power (although some extra BHP is always welcome), they need more torque. I followed a VXTurbo yesterday and noticed how quick the car accelerated even though his exhaust note suggested he was at low revs. On so many occasions I've wanted to accelerate quicky only to find myself a few hundred revs below the cam change which resulted in slow acceleration.
I know some of you like the dual personality but it's not for me... Unless Lotus release a new Elise with a different power plant, my next may not be a Lotus
Having said all this - if you have some clear roads or a track, and my R is sitting on 2nd CAM all of the time, it's one seriously fast all round package.
Edit - missing letters bcos my wireless kboard is low on power!
>> Edited by shot2bits on Thursday 12th January 09:42
In my opinion the 111R and Exige don't need more power (although some extra BHP is always welcome), they need more torque. I followed a VXTurbo yesterday and noticed how quick the car accelerated even though his exhaust note suggested he was at low revs. On so many occasions I've wanted to accelerate quicky only to find myself a few hundred revs below the cam change which resulted in slow acceleration.
I know some of you like the dual personality but it's not for me... Unless Lotus release a new Elise with a different power plant, my next may not be a Lotus
Having said all this - if you have some clear roads or a track, and my R is sitting on 2nd CAM all of the time, it's one seriously fast all round package.
Edit - missing letters bcos my wireless kboard is low on power!
>> Edited by shot2bits on Thursday 12th January 09:42
shot2bits said:
I really like my 111R and have massive respect for it's ability.
In my opinion the 111R and Exige don't need more power (although some extra BHP is always welcome), they need more torque. I followed a VXTurbo yesterday and noticed how quick the car accelerated even though his exhaust note suggested he was at low revs. On so many occasions I've wanted to accelerate quicky only to find myself a few hundred revs below the cam change which resulted in slow acceleration.
I know some of you like the dual personality but it's not for me... Unless Lotus release a new Elise with a different power plant, my next may not be a Lotus
Having said all this - if you have some clear roads or a track, and my R is sitting on 2nd CAM all of the time, it's one seriously fast all round package.
I've had a VXturbo(speedster) and you can stay with it with your R, but always be prepared! always have a shift lower(high revs) then the turbo, in the VVC engines you have to be alert, when I see a fast car or turbo or tdi car I always try to be alert and I drive in a lower shift(high rivs) the time I'm around that car
But you also can go the tuningchip route! and that way you can shoose the 2cond camshift moment a lot lower! and go to 200, 210, 220 and even 230hp naturaly aspirated! on the yota engine see this website...
www.ragnorakracing.com/page/page/2337807.htm
But not for you Chang....you don't have a Rrrrrrrrrrrr
GTRene
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