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18 months, for an unprovoked assualt on a respectable father of 3 which has left him permantly disabled. No doubt they will both be out in 9 months.
These comments by the Police would be funny if they did not make me so angry.
"I hope the sentences we have had today send a clear warning to people who think it is acceptable to consume large amounts of alcohol then assault members of the public in unprovoked attacks."
>> Edited by Jaglover on Friday 13th January 11:01
These comments by the Police would be funny if they did not make me so angry.
"I hope the sentences we have had today send a clear warning to people who think it is acceptable to consume large amounts of alcohol then assault members of the public in unprovoked attacks."
Telegraph said:
18 months for an unprovoked attack that left barrister in a coma
By Richard Savill
(Filed: 13/01/2006)
Two members of a drunken teenage gang that unleashed a "callous and chilling" attack on a barrister as he walked home from a barbecue with friends were each ordered to be detained in custody for 18 months yesterday.
Peter Wareing, 42, a married father, was beaten unconscious and was left in a coma in the unprovoked attack. He was placed on a life support machine and his wife Elizabeth, a nurse, was told that he might not survive.
Daniel Hayward, 19
Bournemouth Crown Court heard that, although he had made a "remarkable" recovery, he had been left with some permanent disability and had had to give up his career.
Passing sentence on Daniel Hayward, 19, and Martin Warren, 17, Judge John Beashel said: "This is a deplorable state of affairs. What a pretty pass it has come to when people cannot walk home on a summer evening without the fear of being attacked.
"A group of decent young people who had attended a barbecue were walking home when you two thugs attacked them and one of your victims was caused serious brain injuries.
"His life and the life of his family were very profoundly changed, all because you two had been drinking and this group were unfortunate enough to come across you and your associates as they made their way home."
The judge added: "You were looking for trouble and prepared to use any excuse to visit violence on whoever came by. It is the callousness of this that is so chilling, especially in your case, Hayward. You do not seem to care that others have been blighted by your gratuitous violence."
Mr Wareing, a newly-qualified barrister, who had previously run a clothes shop, was walking with two friends, David Andrews and Joanne Selman, both 34, in Poole, Dorset, shortly before midnight on June 18 last year.
Hayward, a trainee boat builder, and Warren, both from Poole, were with a gang of about seven youths who had been drinking at a birthday party when they picked a fight with Mr Wareing and his friends.
Trouble started when a teenage girl said that Mr Wareing's group was staring at them. The girl started a fight with Miss Selman. When Mr Andrews tried to intervene, Warren punched him knocking him into a bush, chipping his tooth and bruising his legs, back and arms.
The two teenagers then set upon Mr Wareing.
Tim Coombes, prosecuting, said: "Nothing that Mr Wareing had done was in any way provocative or deserving of the injuries he was about to sustain."
Warren punched Mr Wareing to the ground but he got back up. Hayward then knocked him down again with a second punch and Mr Wareing hit his head on cobblestones, causing severe brain injuries.
Mr Wareing, also from Poole, who was to celebrate Father's Day the following morning with his three young sons, was in a coma for months after the assault and still needs physiotherapy.
Mr Coombes said he suffered bruising and bleeding on the brain and post-traumatic amnesia.
He said: "Mr Wareing paints the picture of his injuries leaving him with significant disability, much of which looks to be permanent.
"The whole sequence of events has had a traumatic effect, as one would expect, not only on him but also his young family.
"It was thought in the first instance that he would not survive his injuries and that was communicated to his family. Remarkably, he did survive his injuries."
He added: "He had qualified and hoped to practise at the bar and that career is now lost to him."
Mr Coombes said there had also been a "terrible financial consequence" as a result of the assault.
Hayward, who was 18 at the time of the attack, was sent to a young offenders institution for 18 months and Warren, who was 16 at the time, was given an 18-month detention and training order but told he would be released after nine months under the supervision of a probation officer. Hayward had pleaded guilty to inflicting grievous bodily harm on Mr Wareing. Warren had pleaded guilty to the same charge and also admitted assaulting Mr Andrews, causing him actual bodily harm.
The court heard that Hayward had punched a pub landlord in the face while he was on bail for attacking Mr Wareing. He was jailed for 21 days in August for battery. After the case, Det Insp Steve Thorpe, of Dorset police, said: "This was a very serious incident, in which Mr Wareing nearly lost his life.
"I hope the sentences we have had today send a clear warning to people who think it is acceptable to consume large amounts of alcohol then assault members of the public in unprovoked attacks."
>> Edited by Jaglover on Friday 13th January 11:01
What do you expect to happen if young men are denied resposible male role models, examples of men being sucessful, and are brought up almost entirely by women and with the impression that they are at best superfluos to society?
The media never stops...women are more intelligent, women are better drivers, women are better investors, women are better businesspeople, women are better scientists.
IMO young men faced with an essentially hostile social environment are lashing out at a society that continually undermines and attacks them in the interests of promoting 'equality'.
The media never stops...women are more intelligent, women are better drivers, women are better investors, women are better businesspeople, women are better scientists.
IMO young men faced with an essentially hostile social environment are lashing out at a society that continually undermines and attacks them in the interests of promoting 'equality'.
timmy30 said:
What do you expect to happen if young men are denied resposible male role models, examples of men being sucessful, and are brought up almost entirely by women and with the impression that they are at best superfluos to society?
The media never stops...women are more intelligent, women are better drivers, women are better investors, women are better businesspeople, women are better scientists.
IMO young men faced with an essentially hostile social environment are lashing out at a society that continually undermines and attacks them in the interests of promoting 'equality'.
Perhaps
Still think these scum should have been sent down for at least 5 years though.
I empathise with the bloke. I got belted round the head with a bottle a couple of years ago and it wrecked the snall business I was running. The guy got 3 years because he also had loaded firearms.
I notice that violence under the influence of alcohol is made more frequent by concurrent cocaine abuse. It makes the little sh1ts feel invincible.
I notice that violence under the influence of alcohol is made more frequent by concurrent cocaine abuse. It makes the little sh1ts feel invincible.
Jaglover said:
Perhaps
Still think these scum should have been sent down for at least 5 years though.
Oh indeed I'm not excusing there actions at all, but I do think that as a society we are totally failing 1/2 of all young people, young men, in order to lavish almost absurd amounts of praise and attention on the other.
So girls have now overtaken boys in literacy and numeracy.....why exactly is this reported as a 'good news' story? Marvellous schools are failing male students. Great.
All I think is that you neglect and alienate young men then a growing proportion will channel a sense of resentment and isolation into violence. Neglect the education of young women and they will become wives and have children earlier than otherwise, neglect the education of young men and you will have a riot on your hands ultimately.
Pick your social consequence.
>> Edited by timmy30 on Friday 13th January 11:15
timmy30 said:
What do you expect to happen if young men are denied resposible male role models, examples of men being sucessful, and are brought up almost entirely by women and with the impression that they are at best superfluos to society?
The media never stops...women are more intelligent, women are better drivers, women are better investors, women are better businesspeople, women are better scientists.
IMO young men faced with an essentially hostile social environment are lashing out at a society that continually undermines and attacks them in the interests of promoting 'equality'.
What utter utter utter utter bollox imho
This is a middle class dinner party topic of conversation.
I dont think Mr Scum Ugg Ugg considered his relative position in the socio-economic environment he inhabits and considered the question of his emasculation in modern society prior to deciding he would smash Mr Nice Guys head in.
>> Edited by Swilly on Friday 13th January 11:19
What makes me laugh is quote in the last paragraph by the Police Officer:
"These sentences send a clear warning."
No they don't, and these young offenders institutions are hardly akin to severe punishment which is what these cretins deserve.
The system is rotten. A colleague of mine at work was spat in the face, received death threats and so on in a sustained attack. The police eventually turned up, arrested the assailant and promptly released him the next day without charge.
Nothing surprises me now in Blair's Britain where the rights of criminals are placed above those of the ordinary citizen.
>> Edited by Saied on Friday 13th January 11:15
"These sentences send a clear warning."
No they don't, and these young offenders institutions are hardly akin to severe punishment which is what these cretins deserve.
The system is rotten. A colleague of mine at work was spat in the face, received death threats and so on in a sustained attack. The police eventually turned up, arrested the assailant and promptly released him the next day without charge.
Nothing surprises me now in Blair's Britain where the rights of criminals are placed above those of the ordinary citizen.
>> Edited by Saied on Friday 13th January 11:15
Jaglover said:
Trouble started when a teenage girl said that Mr Wareing's group was staring at them. The girl started a fight with Miss Selman.
I've been in a few similar situations and quite often its a pished-up trollop who wants the young lads she is with to get into a scrap.
It seems she started the trouble and gets off scot free.
>> Edited by cliffe_mafia on Friday 13th January 11:22
timmy30 said:
Oh indeed I'm not excusing there actions at all, but I do think that as a society we are totally failing 1/2 of all young people, young men, in order to lavish almost absurd amounts of praise and attention on the other.
So girls have now overtaken boys in literacy and numeracy.....why exactly is this reported as a 'good news' story? Marvellous schools are failing male students. Great.
All I think is that you neglect and alienate young men then a growing proportion will channel a sense of resentment and isolation into violence. Neglect the education of young women and they will become wives and have children earlier than otherwise, neglect the education of young men and you will have a riot on your hands ultimately.
Pick your social consequence.
>> Edited by timmy30 on Friday 13th January 11:15
I would place the blame elsewhere.
Throughout human history we have realised that structures must be in place to restrain young males, the biggest threat to an ordered society.
These range from respect for elders, a father at home to provide discipline and later marriage to a woman (a great civilising influence)
These structures have all gone, we have a culture that encourages disrespect of elders, fathers are typically absent, and marriage is almost unknown among some sections of society.
Swilly said:
I refer you to my edited quote above. No offence intended by the way
They would almost certainly not consider it in those terms no....... anymore than rioters on the inner city estates in the early 80's blamed there predicament on an unecesserily restrictive monetary policy that caused an overvaluation in the £, that devastated British industry and led to their inabilility to find a job.
But they are reacting to something. And it seems increasingly so.
No offence taken, well not really, it's just that when you put forward and argument for dabte and get a one word responce 'bollox' it's hard to feel that ones point has been considered or even justifiably repudiated. I may be wrong, I frequently am, but being told that my ideas are 'bollox' is not the way to convince me of that.
Jaglover said:
I would place the blame elsewhere.
Throughout human history we have realised that structures must be in place to restrain young males, the biggest threat to an ordered society.
These range from respect for elders, a father at home to provide discipline and later marriage to a woman (a great civilising influence)
These structures have all gone, we have a culture that encourages disrespect of elders, fathers are typically absent, and marriage is almost unknown among some sections of society.
No no, nail on head. I think we're violently agreeing. My point is that the modern political agenda has specifically set out to debase/devalue/deystroy traditional long held and established means of integrating testosterone pumped young men into society. Correectly handled they can be immensely productive, incorretly handled they have an astonishing capacity for violence and agression.
Jaglover said:
I would place the blame elsewhere.
Throughout human history we have realised that structures must be in place to restrain young males, the biggest threat to an ordered society.
These range from respect for elders, a father at home to provide discipline and later marriage to a woman (a great civilising influence)
These structures have all gone, we have a culture that encourages disrespect of elders, fathers are typically absent, and marriage is almost unknown among some sections of society.
Merely reaping the rewards of a society that has destroyed its traditions and replaced them with nothing. Pride and respect are not innate they are learned and earned. pay attention Blair!
When young we are no longer taught to respect history but to villify and condemn the actions of our forefathers - hence we respect nothing.
The govenment wishes to replace the respect of the past with fear of today - not a swop that enhances society in any beneficial way.
Bring back pride in History - bring back pride in the great and the good - statues of war heroes, emininent engineers and scientists (irrespective of their chromosomic disposition). Highlight and exemplify the actions not the individuals! No more famous for being famous!
wipes foam from mouth and crawls back under his rock
To speak of missing fathers, lack of respect for elders, marriage etc as causes for the break down in male discipline misses the point.
I would say these things are symptoms of the problem but not the problem itself.
I would say there has been over the last 25 years a national cultural shift in the application of discipline, the nature of inclusion, and a change in the value system.
Schools no longer discipline kids cos of the complete liberalisation of this aspect of education. A savvy kid has the power over the teacher cos of the hand-wringing liberals.
The cult of the BIG I AM ME ME ME so perfectly summed up in the Loreal advert "because i'm worth it" has replaced any sense of US WE COMMUNITY.
As for value, i dont have to work hard, get academic qualifications or experience, get a job and career and make my way in the world cos i have been brainwashed in to thinking riches and fame are just round the corner if i get on Big Brother or Pop Idol etc etc etc.
In the BIG I AM ME ME ME world we are all stars arent we????? Im owed it arent I ??????
Who can i sue when i dont achieve my dream of pop stardom???????
I would say these things are symptoms of the problem but not the problem itself.
I would say there has been over the last 25 years a national cultural shift in the application of discipline, the nature of inclusion, and a change in the value system.
Schools no longer discipline kids cos of the complete liberalisation of this aspect of education. A savvy kid has the power over the teacher cos of the hand-wringing liberals.
The cult of the BIG I AM ME ME ME so perfectly summed up in the Loreal advert "because i'm worth it" has replaced any sense of US WE COMMUNITY.
As for value, i dont have to work hard, get academic qualifications or experience, get a job and career and make my way in the world cos i have been brainwashed in to thinking riches and fame are just round the corner if i get on Big Brother or Pop Idol etc etc etc.
In the BIG I AM ME ME ME world we are all stars arent we????? Im owed it arent I ??????
Who can i sue when i dont achieve my dream of pop stardom???????
There is an extreme lack of discipline in the majority of youth today, they are constantly testing the limits with parents/parent, and quite often being allowed to get away with anything. I've seen teenagers calling their own mother a biatch and not receiving any form of resistance. Growing in an environment like that, attending a school which has no powers to punish you except with a weeks holiday is causing a massive difference in the mindset of many young people.
All too often, as in the above story, a group will play off each other and encourgae what is basically crime. They try it once, get away with it and then feel they can do it anytime as they don't receive any resistance again.
In my opinion we've let a massive section of society get too far beyond help, we can't re-educate them now, and soon they'll have their own kids too raise poorly.
National service is required, that doesn't mean going and fighting in the army; it might be working with the fire brigade, or ambulance sercive. There are so many areas that could benefit from the extra help and it really will help many of the people who previsouly were considered anti social.
I have friends in Finland and Austria who had to do it, and they enjoyed it, giving them a chance to figure out where they wanted to go in life and increasing their self worth.
I'm 25 by the way, not the usual advocate of NS, but I reckon it's the only thing that can help in many cases.
Rant over
All too often, as in the above story, a group will play off each other and encourgae what is basically crime. They try it once, get away with it and then feel they can do it anytime as they don't receive any resistance again.
In my opinion we've let a massive section of society get too far beyond help, we can't re-educate them now, and soon they'll have their own kids too raise poorly.
National service is required, that doesn't mean going and fighting in the army; it might be working with the fire brigade, or ambulance sercive. There are so many areas that could benefit from the extra help and it really will help many of the people who previsouly were considered anti social.
I have friends in Finland and Austria who had to do it, and they enjoyed it, giving them a chance to figure out where they wanted to go in life and increasing their self worth.
I'm 25 by the way, not the usual advocate of NS, but I reckon it's the only thing that can help in many cases.
Rant over
I wouldn't place any blame whatsoever on anyone else other than the two young thugs our society would be better off without.
18 months is a ridiculous sentence.
I'm thinking two days in the stocks followed by twenty lashes in the town square would be more like it. (I believe it was rare to survive much more.)
Do you think they'd do it again after that? I don't. I also think that instead of them *costing* us money whilst they were being *rehabilitated* they would instead have paid their debt to society in half an hour - and afterwards could get back to doing some work for a living. In pain. For weeks. In times of yore people died from infection. They wouldn't now...
Devil's Advovcate being played very heavily here. But its worth thinking about. All the punishments we seem to think up because we don't like hurting people basically seem to do nothing. Maybe we should consider hurting people again?
18 months is a ridiculous sentence.
I'm thinking two days in the stocks followed by twenty lashes in the town square would be more like it. (I believe it was rare to survive much more.)
Do you think they'd do it again after that? I don't. I also think that instead of them *costing* us money whilst they were being *rehabilitated* they would instead have paid their debt to society in half an hour - and afterwards could get back to doing some work for a living. In pain. For weeks. In times of yore people died from infection. They wouldn't now...
Devil's Advovcate being played very heavily here. But its worth thinking about. All the punishments we seem to think up because we don't like hurting people basically seem to do nothing. Maybe we should consider hurting people again?
dmitsi said:
There is an extreme lack of discipline in the majority of youth today, they are constantly testing the limits with parents/parent
Young men have always, will always do this. They are trying to find 'the line'.
dmitsi said:
and quite often being allowed to get away with anything.
As you point out in todays society there is no reaction against there action, this is what has changed.
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