Thought Police?
Discussion
I see the Chair of the Muslim council of Britain is being investigated by Scotland yard for comments he made on Radio 4 about homosexuals. He was in fact only telling them his beliefs based upon his faith and several Christain broadcasters are suffering the same fate. There is no suggestion they were suggesting homsexuals should be attacked or discriminated against.
Personally, I think that if you can't have faith ( I don't have a religion by the way) and express that faith without being prosecuted, BIG BROTHER is really here.
I handled a job application recently from a Catholic man who clearly stated that his faith did not accept homsexuality and although he felt this would not affect his work we should know his faith was a key part of who he was. I shortlisted him and the organisation threw him back saying it was not enough to be tolerant, he had to, and I use their words 'embrace diversity'. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I do uphold the rights of people with a faith as long as their belifs do not lead to illegal bahviour. In the end I got opinion from a diversity consultant who agreed with me, that people can have their faith as long as it doesn't lead to their behaviour becoming illegal or to indirect discrimination by alientation. To insist that people have to 'embrace' anything the organisation decided was PC was in itself discriminatory as Catholics, Muslims and other Christians with strong beliefs wouldn't get a job.
Sounds to me like 'diversity' as employed these days is actually a self-contradictory term: you can be diverse amd have other beliefs as long as it conforms to what we have decided is right and proper. Some aspects of your divrsity are valued, others not. The game is to guess which bit is vogue this week.
Personally, I think that if you can't have faith ( I don't have a religion by the way) and express that faith without being prosecuted, BIG BROTHER is really here.
I handled a job application recently from a Catholic man who clearly stated that his faith did not accept homsexuality and although he felt this would not affect his work we should know his faith was a key part of who he was. I shortlisted him and the organisation threw him back saying it was not enough to be tolerant, he had to, and I use their words 'embrace diversity'. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I do uphold the rights of people with a faith as long as their belifs do not lead to illegal bahviour. In the end I got opinion from a diversity consultant who agreed with me, that people can have their faith as long as it doesn't lead to their behaviour becoming illegal or to indirect discrimination by alientation. To insist that people have to 'embrace' anything the organisation decided was PC was in itself discriminatory as Catholics, Muslims and other Christians with strong beliefs wouldn't get a job.
Sounds to me like 'diversity' as employed these days is actually a self-contradictory term: you can be diverse amd have other beliefs as long as it conforms to what we have decided is right and proper. Some aspects of your divrsity are valued, others not. The game is to guess which bit is vogue this week.
leftie said:
Sounds to me like 'diversity' as employed these days is actually a self-contradictory term: you can be diverse amd have other beliefs as long as it conforms to what we have decided is right and proper. Some aspects of your divrsity are valued, others not. The game is to guess which bit is vogue this week.
Indeed 'Diversity' seems to mean accepting all the key tenets of Political Correctness to these people. Quite how this is diverse I am not sure.
leftie said:
I handled a job application recently from a Catholic man who clearly stated that his faith did not accept homsexuality and although he felt this would not affect his work we should know his faith was a key part of who he was.
Did he also give information on all other aspects of what his faith accepted or did not accept ?
Sorry, but this smells of bullshit to me.
Why would he volunteer this information ? Presumably the job application did not specifically ask it, and if it would not affect his work then why even mention it ?
Nah, definately smells of bullshit to me.
Corpulent Tosser said:
I handled a job application recently from a Catholic man who clearly stated that his faith did not accept homsexuality and although he felt this would not affect his work we should know his faith was a key part of who he was.
Did he also give information on all other aspects of what his faith accepted or did not accept ?
Sorry, but this smells of bullshit to me.
Why would he volunteer this information ? Presumably the job application did not specifically ask it, and if it would not affect his work then why even mention it ?
Nah, definately smells of bullshit to me.
and if it is true, it sounds like it should be the added to the 100 ways to fail at an interview!
Leftie,
there's a thread somewhere earlier on this topic that got diverted (and i now can't find).
suffice to say that the guy's comments went somewhat beyond saying "I'm Muslim and according to my beliefs, homosexuality is unacceptable". He was talking in terms of disease and pariahs of society, quite insulting and offensive stuff. Think in terms of how YOU would feel if someone described you in his terms.
Before this kicks off into another race/religion/sexuality thread, i think that is another person with less-than-moderate-views spouting off and spoiling matters for the majority of the more moderately minded population.
there's a thread somewhere earlier on this topic that got diverted (and i now can't find).
suffice to say that the guy's comments went somewhat beyond saying "I'm Muslim and according to my beliefs, homosexuality is unacceptable". He was talking in terms of disease and pariahs of society, quite insulting and offensive stuff. Think in terms of how YOU would feel if someone described you in his terms.
Before this kicks off into another race/religion/sexuality thread, i think that is another person with less-than-moderate-views spouting off and spoiling matters for the majority of the more moderately minded population.
Conversely - and again on Radio 4 this week - there was some gay Christian chappy saying that he was being prosecuted for incitement to religious hatred for saying that Muslims were intolerant of gay people.
Seems you can't win, whichever way you jump.
Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, I reckon. ;-)
Seems you can't win, whichever way you jump.
Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, I reckon. ;-)
stackmonkey said:
Leftie,
there's a thread somewhere earlier on this topic that got diverted (and i now can't find).
suffice to say that the guy's comments went somewhat beyond saying "I'm Muslim and according to my beliefs, homosexuality is unacceptable". He was talking in terms of disease and pariahs of society, quite insulting and offensive stuff. Think in terms of how YOU would feel if someone described you in his terms.
Before this kicks off into another race/religion/sexuality thread, i think that is another person with less-than-moderate-views spouting off and spoiling matters for the majority of the more moderately minded population.
Show me a true Christian, Muslim, or Jew who thinks homosexuality is acceptable, and I'll show you a pig that might fly.
you have to understand the religious beliefs in these people that God created men a women with physical traits and functions that are different from one another.Adam and Eve were meant to procreate and compliment each other, and according to the Bible we are all descendants from Adam and Eve , not Adam and Steve.So roughly translated from the Bible, if a woman is "carpet munching" or a bloke is "Marmite mining" (pardon the crudeness)is unnatural and against what God intended, therefore blasphemous.
So these religious people have their views and you have yours, just deal with it .
allnighter said:
Leftie,
there's a thread somewhere earlier on this topic that got diverted (and i now can't find).
suffice to say that the guy's comments went somewhat beyond saying "I'm Muslim and according to my beliefs, homosexuality is unacceptable". He was talking in terms of disease and pariahs of society, quite insulting and offensive stuff. Think in terms of how YOU would feel if someone described you in his terms.
Before this kicks off into another race/religion/sexuality thread, i think that is another person with less-than-moderate-views spouting off and spoiling matters for the majority of the more moderately minded population.
Show me a true Christian, Muslim, or Jew who thinks homosexuality is acceptable, and I'll show you a pig that might fly.
you have to understand the religious beliefs in these people that God created men a women with physical traits and functions that are different from one another.Adam and Eve were meant to procreate and compliment each other, and according to the Bible we are all descendants from Adam and Eve , not Adam and Steve.So roughly translated from the Bible, if a woman is "carpet munching" or a bloke is "Marmite mining" (pardon the crudeness)is unnatural and against what God intended, therefore blasphemous.
So these religious people have their views and you have yours, just deal with it .
i can deal with (and regularly do)when the comments such as i put in quotes at the start of my post. That doesn't mean that people with such views have to be insulting about it. It's also surprsing how many religous people's views alter ( if even just a little bit) when they find out that a friend or relative that they've known for years, is gay. My Parents' (Catholic mum and C of E dad) certainly did
i also have a number of gay friends who are religous (christian and muslim resp) and whose local religous leaders are ok with their sexuality.
I obviously don't hide my own sexuality on this or any other site, but that doesn't mean i'm the creaming queen that the red-top newspapers carp on about. Most of the people that know me would describe me as a reasonable bloke, very conventional etc.
Corpulent Tosser said:
I handled a job application recently from a Catholic man who clearly stated that his faith did not accept homsexuality and although he felt this would not affect his work we should know his faith was a key part of who he was.
Did he also give information on all other aspects of what his faith accepted or did not accept ?
Sorry, but this smells of bullshit to me.
Why would he volunteer this information ? Presumably the job application did not specifically ask it, and if it would not affect his work then why even mention it ?
Nah, definately smells of bullshit to me.
Actually the application form seeks this kind of information. It was a sensitive job where he would come into contact with gay men and he was honest enough to outline how he felt.
Gazboy said:
Actually the application form seeks this kind of information. It was a sensitive job where he would come into contact with gay men and he was honest enough to outline how he felt.
If it was such a job, why did you put him forward with his beliefs?[/quote]
If it was a job as a 'gay outreach officer' then yes it is relevant. But there are many public facing roles where he would come into contact with gays among others.
Surely as an individual with strong beliefs you can hold those beliefs but, while at work, keep them to yourself when dealing with clients.
Lawyers do it all the time. I'm sure some people in medicine and surgery do too.
I would have respected the guy more for mentioning it...which is what seems to have happened.
As for diversity consultant...my father is an employment practices consultant (not law, but real-world stuff...spend 30+ years in Civil Service bouncing around various employment-related departments), and includes a section on diversity...often has great fun putting uppity managers down when they get TOO PC.
So not all 'diversity consultants' are Grauniad readers.
Lawyers do it all the time. I'm sure some people in medicine and surgery do too.
I would have respected the guy more for mentioning it...which is what seems to have happened.
As for diversity consultant...my father is an employment practices consultant (not law, but real-world stuff...spend 30+ years in Civil Service bouncing around various employment-related departments), and includes a section on diversity...often has great fun putting uppity managers down when they get TOO PC.
So not all 'diversity consultants' are Grauniad readers.
Surely one of the principles of Christianity is tolerance and acceptance? (And IMO one of the 'good' bits of religion)
It doesn't sound like this bloke is happy with that and presumably will spout countless verses that back up his view, while ignoring countless others that condemn bigotry.
It's not as if the Church has no history of persecution, either.
It doesn't sound like this bloke is happy with that and presumably will spout countless verses that back up his view, while ignoring countless others that condemn bigotry.
It's not as if the Church has no history of persecution, either.
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