Tax Disc fraud

[clint888]

Any lawyers out there?? I admit that I was probably acting with my usual stupidity when instead of displaying my original disc I displayed a copy (I had the original in the car). Reason was that I had one stolen when the top was down and it seemed less hassle than putting the roof on every time I left the car. Alas the Bill stopped me (exhaust too loud apparently) and picked on it at once. It appears that I am guilty of fraud (but who am I defrauding?) and I await somewhat anxiously to hear what further action they will take ((

[simpo one]

It's an offence not to display a tax disc, even if you've paid for one and even if it's in the car. However, given your recent experience, the fact that it's an open car and that you *had* paid the tax, I think you ought to get off on appeal. (Had you gone past one of these new-fangled tax-disc-camera devices it would have been perfectly happy, as it checks with DVLA.)

Of more interest to TVR owners, though, is the 'loud exhaust' bit - how did he work this out and what did he do about it?

[grey42cerbie]

I used to get this problem all the time in my biker days, especially when I lived in Coventry. In the end I just kept it in my pocket and told any copper that pulled me, that it had been stolen. I never used to hear anything after that.

I would sit tight and don't worry too much. I'm sure it's some young scamp of a policeman thinking that he's solved the crime of the century. I'm sure his superiors will take a more rounded view. After all you were just trying to do the right thing.

Cheers, Steve
Grey 4.2 Cerbie

[sixspeed]

I had some pillock copper pull me for a "loud" exhaust in the Tuscan. Claimed adamantly that it had been modified. Sadly, it hadn't. Was on a power-trip too, so was quite happy to sit there and argue with him that they hadn't been touched.

Claimed he was an ex-TVR owner as well. You'd have thought he'd have known what to expect then?

Oh well. Apparently, he is looking for a new TVR as he was at MV recently poking about some Tuscan's (the sales guys there knew the chap when I told them my story...!) Better not buy one though, what with those exhausts being too loud and all....


-andy-

[shpub]

This came up in the speeding and Plod forum. madcop basically said that "The Police can stop you if in their opinion the car was too noisy or being driven in a noisy manner. If the car has been modified to increase the noise levels then this is an offence. This does mean that using sports exhausts and straight through exhausts etc are technically illegal for road use. "

In reality, it is more about degree and circumstances. with some of the straight through mods generating noise levels that would invalidate Health and Safety, I am not surprised that plod are becoming more interested.

Struck me as you have just been picked on. The offence is not having the original disc on display. Can't see how you can appeal against it. You can use the past history as mitagation to reduce the penalty.

Steve

[jmorgan]

Can't help with the rest but on the disk front, I use a holder that breaks up, disk an all if removed. Very sticky as well so a craft knife blade to scrape off. Got a load from a motor factors.

[JohnL]

jmorgan said: Can't help with the rest but on the disk front, I use a holder that breaks up, disk an all if removed. Very sticky as well so a craft knife blade to scrape off. Got a load from a motor factors.

So you have to clear off the manky mess (and go to the enormous expense of a new holder) every year?

[jmorgan]

JohnL said:

jmorgan said: Can't help with the rest but on the disk front, I use a holder that breaks up, disk an all if removed. Very sticky as well so a craft knife blade to scrape off. Got a load from a motor factors.

So you have to clear off the manky mess (and go to the enormous expense of a new holder) every year?

Paid about 70p each but that was a while ago and I bought a load. Hardly any mess and a piece of mind should I want to leave it for a short while with the lid down. Considering the cost of petrol and tyres I thought it was reasonable.

[NICE EH]

If the police do try to prosecute you, I'd fight it. Make the police spend the day in court (they have to account for the time they spend there and the offences that the are prosecuting), explain your reasoning to the court and hope for the best.

Your actions were reasonable, given your history, and whilst you are technically guilty of an offence, I suspect that the chances of it getting to court are pretty slim.

[icamm]

As far as I am aware you can only get done for fraud if the disk is not registered to the vehicle it is attached to.

You can get done for not displaying a valid tax disk because you have to display the original. This has been a big problem for bikers for years as they are easily stolen.

Ihad a friend prosecuted for tax disk fraud years ago - stupid sod "borrowed" a tax disk from a car in a scrap yard 'cos his was out of date. He got pulled because the one he borrowed was also out of date, but had only just expired against his 3 months expired one. Can't remember what his sentence was now but I think the fine was pretty steep.

>> Edited by icamm on Tuesday 10th December 15:36

[LOWE]

IM SORRY BUT YOUR ALL WRONG !(1) IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO COUNTERFIT A TAX DISC ITS ALSO FROUD AND YOU WILL ALSO BE DONE FOR NOT DISPLAYING THE RIGHT TAX DISC IF I WAS YOU I WOULD SE A BREEF ASAP THESE ARE CRIMINAL OFFENCES NOT MOTORING

[clint888]

Many thanks for the kind comments and advice. I suppose the law is the law even when it's an ass and,if it comes to it, I will have to bite the bullet. I have thought of a "Baldrick" type solution however for the future. If I report the disc as stolen I can get a replacement for a few pounds so that this problem would not arise again hopefully. "How did they know the exhaust was too noisy" They didn't of course without a db meter it was just an excuse to stop me. I was in a shopping centre of all places and they could hardly stop me for speeding so they had to think of something. What seriously pisses me off is that instead of skulking round corners waiting for basically honest motorists they could be showing a presence in some "hard" estate to help the citizen's peace of mind. But of course that might be dangerous.

[raceboy]

You could always use one those tamper proof tax disc holders, or one of those may power style alloy ones where the tax disc is held in with grub screws

[alan_driver]

raceboy said: You could always use one those tamper proof tax disc holders, or one of those may power style alloy ones where the tax disc is held in with grub screws

these lax power alloy tax disk holders you talk of, wont they just nick the holder aswell?

[icamm]

LOWE said: IM SORRY BUT YOUR ALL WRONG !(1) IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO COUNTERFIT A TAX DISC ITS ALSO FROUD AND YOU WILL ALSO BE DONE FOR NOT DISPLAYING THE RIGHT TAX DISC IF I WAS YOU I WOULD SE A BREEF ASAP THESE ARE CRIMINAL OFFENCES NOT MOTORING

Woah there boy. No need to shout.

I would also suggest that you are not correct either. If you do have the original tax disk it is not fraud as there is no intent to deprive or decieve. The tax has been paid and you have the original disk.

Now I concede that you are possibly liable for counterfeiting a tax disk. However, I would doubt the case would get very far in light of the circumstances. 1) You have paid the road tax for the vehicle. 2) You have the original valid tax disk. 3) You placed the facsimile in the window due to having had one original stolen (thereby allowing someone else to commit all of the above offences).

I hope you will ultimately get off with a slapped wrist for not knowing the rules. I would certainly play the card that you didn't realise it was illegal. What with the cost and hassle of replacing the disk and driving around without displaying one during that time your only thoughts where to A) reduce crime by not having anything displayed worth stealing. B) save expense, time, hassle and possible "tug" for not displaying a disk.

Good luck.


>> Edited by icamm on Tuesday 10th December 18:02

[simpo one]

'THESE ARE CRIMINAL OFFENCES NOT MOTORING'

You sure? Even 'speeding', that heinous crime of the moment, is a civil offence, not criminal. By contrast, burglars are criminals but they're harder to catch. (Especially if they drive away really slowly, and therefore evade most detection devices...)

Thought for the day: Ever wonder what the 'official' view on cannabis would be be if they had a camera that detected it automatically and sent the offender a £60 bill?

[adios]

Lowe.........get a grip and take that medication