Does anyone know what the position of Noble Cars is on this matter ?
to fix a friends Noble whilst on a track day.
BMW your talking about this guy.
www.easytrack.co.uk/forum/fmess.asp?type=FIND&subjectid=22490
if you are not registered with the easytrack forum then do so then search for the name getcarter
the thread is then carter V BMW
considering most of us have gone for the Noble after seeing it demonstrated on track (by Clarkson for example) that is totally unreasonable. These are specialist cars built in very small numbers. It would seem to be fairer for them to consider any mechanical breakdowns on a individual basis. ie if it clear that ther car failed due to abuse, tough. If the car's windscreen washer motor packed in on a car that had been tracked then warranty repair.
>> Edited by nick francis on Tuesday 10th December 21:28
nick francis said:
considering most of us have gone for the Noble after seeing it demonstrated on track (by Clarkson for example) that is totally unreasonable. These are specialist cars built in very small numbers. It would seem to be fairer for them to consider any mechanical breakdowns on a individual basis. ie if it clear that ther car failed due to abuse, tough. If the car's windscreen washer motor packed in on a car that had been tracked then warranty repair.
This seems a reasonable policy for a manufacturer of this type of sports car but I'm surprised at some of the statements in this thread.
" ..... It has been promoted as a great track day car, to the extent of having senior Noble employees on Top Gear grinning like mad after one of their cars has been thrashed around their circuit." Unfortunately one can't 'thrash' a sports car legally on the road and showing the cars performance on a closed track is a responsible attitude - and it would certainly have me grinning if I was fortunate enough to be the manufacturer.
" ....... indicating that some people have already had issues with their cars on the track .......". It doesn't indicate that at all Joust.
" ......... if they haven't excluded track use explicitly as trading standards advice is that suppliers are essentially liable for up to 6 years if faulty due to an unreasonable fault and not normal wear and tear .....". By definition almost, racing a car on a track is NOT normal wear and tear - but I may have misunderstood you here Joust. Apologies if I have.
I'm not privy to the Noble policy but I would suggest that a bit of empathising is in order here. We're talking about a new, small, niche, high performance car manufacturer. They are marketing a road car with track potential ..... I don't know every word they use to market this product and maybe they have 'overstated' the track part but essentially we all know that this is a road car in it's present form .... certainly the GTO and GTC.
Would you REALLY warranty THIS car for track use, knowing full well that there will be any number of inexperienced drivers who could do serious damage to the car on a track. I think, as the marque develops, then the company may produce models specifically for track use ...... I noticed that someone mentioned that a dry sump is being developed etc etc.
Frankly, I think it's admirable that the company went to the trouble of letting existing users know that track use was not covered in the warranty - that is the sign of an honest and reputable company, and hopefully a company that will go from strength to strength producing better and better models ...... including track cars that could also be used on the road (the other way round, in other words).
I think that in your heart of hearts you might agree with me that it could be suicide for such a small new company to warranty the existing car for the track ...... and then we would all be the worse off with another potentially great marque consigned to the graveyard because of poor management. But I revert to what Nick said, and that does seem a reasonable suggestion.
Your literature develops a sense of belonging for your potential customers, a feeling of security that this handbuilt ,individual product has been lovingly created and that should problems occur you would be there to sort them out.
We spoke, last saturday about my new car which I hope to take delivery of on 21st Dec. We talked about the car's astonishing performance on track and you also explained that you were developing a system to prevent oil stavation when the car is used on track. Much of your advertising of the car has been track focused and I have to say that it is from this perspective that I have decided to become one of your customers.
I was however a little concerned when I learned today that you apparently no longer intend to offer a manufacturer's warranty if the car has been used on track. It has been my clear intention to track the car and both you and the dealer have been aware of this from the very outset. Obviously I would be very unhappy if you were not prepared to rectify manufacturing defects which might occur simply because my car had been tracked.
As an illustration I should tell you that I am trading in my 5 month old Lotus Elise for this car. The Lotus has been tracked several times and recently suffered complete failure of its Stack display.(not on track) Naturally Lotus repaired the display under warranty and there was no question of the validity of the warranty due to track use.
Would you please care to clarify the situation for me as soon as possible.
Nick, I think I would have heard the warning bells ringing if I was given this information by the manufacturer - and enquired further as to the suitability of racing THAT particular model.
>> Edited by dubaiguy on Wednesday 11th December 07:14
I can confirm that Subaru seem happy with them - my local Subaru garage invites all it's customers to a free trackday + hospitality each year & has mechanics on hand to sort out minor problems. Even on someone that blew their turbo, there was no question of it not being covered.
joust said: So according to Autocar - why do some people (Subaru I seem to remember) say that "of course we cover track use - that's what the car was designed for"
Obviously if you went off the track & broke something mechanical that was a different matter...
TVR also seem cool with it - again customers get invited to trackdays by the dealerships, although you have to pay for them...
For those who do not know the outcome, BMW withdrew their defence before it went to court, and agreed to make good on his claim. It should be noted that the track use should be non competitive, and not racing, rallying or time trial. If you are undergoing 'driver improvement' training, ie you have an instructor next to you, this helps the 'responsible owner' angle.
Anyway, Steve beat BMW, despite their early claims to there being no liability on their part. I feel that most sports car manufacturers will have to concur with this decision, unless they specifically have a big 'any form of track use' clause in their warranty docs in large print.
The worry to Noble is that someone treats it like a racing car from the outset, and does thousands of redlined miles every year, at extreme cornering loads, clipping kerbs etc. Then Noble would want to get out of the engine rebuild or damaged suspension. However, it worries enthusiasts as you don't want your claim for replacement cupholders refused if you happened to track your car once three years ago.
I wouldn't worry overly... buy the Noble, track it, then if something went wrong that shouldn't have done, then I'm sure they'd shell out. They are covering themselves, but it would be good to have a very clear and defined standpoint from them.
I apologise to Noble over the accusing statements that I made. They were based in the main on the fact that I had never had any warranty T&C's with the car.
I now realise after talking to Lee Noble that that was down to a simple printing error for early car's. Had I had the original T&C's my view would have been somewhat different....
As I feel the posts I made are now inappropiate I've deleted them and wish to just state that I'm the happiest Noble customer that there surely can be
J
Credit also to Noble for making all of us in the queue feel a whole lot more comfortable about the cars.
Mr Noble - we know you read these posts - how about a factory sponsored/organised trackday for all owners and those of us in the queue? Keep us all happy, and build those intimate customer relationships.
Invite the Media and make a big play of the warranties on trackdays... Go on, you know it will build the order book.
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