Integrale EVO or Scooby Imprezza?
Discussion
Ok people I'd love to know your opinion on this:
Sometime in the new year I need to get a better car than my current smokey 1.9 205 gti. I sold the 993 TT to fund buying my petit villa down here in S of France, and have the 205 as my only car. This will not do - I _need_ to get a better everyday car at somepoint soon in the new year. I won't have a big budget somewhere between 7K -> 12K.
Looking at whats available down here I could buy a very nice Integrale (7-8K) or a scooby (10-12K).
The car needs to be pretty reliable, and must be very usable (ie goto work, tow my motorcross bike, get me to the ski stations every weekend in the winter).
As far as other cars go, the only real world ones that spring to mind are the Fiat Coupe and the clio sport - but both other these are FWD drive, and since having the 205 again I realise that I really don't like it. I like the idea of AWD (like the 933TT) as the roads here are generally crap surface,and get very slippery in the wet/cover with snow!.
So from the choice of the 2 above which would you go for?
Currently I'm thinking EVOII vrs WRX:
Performance - the Scooby
Handling - EVO - more rear out action
Looks - probably the EVO
Sound - the Scooby
Running costs - Scooby
Price - EVO
Interier - EVO
Reliability - Scooby
Resale - EVO
what do you think?
Sometime in the new year I need to get a better car than my current smokey 1.9 205 gti. I sold the 993 TT to fund buying my petit villa down here in S of France, and have the 205 as my only car. This will not do - I _need_ to get a better everyday car at somepoint soon in the new year. I won't have a big budget somewhere between 7K -> 12K.
Looking at whats available down here I could buy a very nice Integrale (7-8K) or a scooby (10-12K).
The car needs to be pretty reliable, and must be very usable (ie goto work, tow my motorcross bike, get me to the ski stations every weekend in the winter).
As far as other cars go, the only real world ones that spring to mind are the Fiat Coupe and the clio sport - but both other these are FWD drive, and since having the 205 again I realise that I really don't like it. I like the idea of AWD (like the 933TT) as the roads here are generally crap surface,and get very slippery in the wet/cover with snow!.
So from the choice of the 2 above which would you go for?
Currently I'm thinking EVOII vrs WRX:
Performance - the Scooby
Handling - EVO - more rear out action
Looks - probably the EVO
Sound - the Scooby
Running costs - Scooby
Price - EVO
Interier - EVO
Reliability - Scooby
Resale - EVO
what do you think?
Everyone has a Scooby or Mitsui Evo. Go for a Lancia - even the name brings memories of something special... Meaner looking and cuts the mustard with the fast car elite....
Personally I would get a Integrale Evo over one of the jap turbo nutters. Not as fast, nimble or as well built. But just all together better IMO.
Cheers,
Paul
Personally I would get a Integrale Evo over one of the jap turbo nutters. Not as fast, nimble or as well built. But just all together better IMO.
Cheers,
Paul
I personally, in your situation, would go for a 5dr Scooby, jack-of-all-trades, fairly pliant ride, AWD, enough room, largish boot. They are excellent for driving every day and you never get bored of them, have got enough go and handling to keep you smiling, especially in the wet where they seem to defy physics.
Evo a bit too balls out for every day driving (I think it may piss you off driving down rough roads in it), but go very slightly better and handle very slightly better, marginal maybe on rougher surfaces.
Delta, unfortunately, too unreliable, but I love them, just not for long.
Negative points for the Scooby, service intervals, low twenties MPG, dash.
I ran a 5dr turbo for 2 years and did 30k miles, excellent all round car, gets my vote.
I imported mine from Holland to the UK in 2000, list price was 22k, I got it for 15k on the road, you may be able to do better than this now as they are trying to get rid of them before the new one comes out. So you never know you may be able to get a new one for around 12-13k, very worth looking into.
It worked out that when I traded the car in for a Civic Type R I very nearly got what I paid for it after 2 years and 30k miles, only lost a grand, if I had bought from the UK I would have lost 6k!
Anyway I like 'em and so does anyone who has ever driven one.
Mail me off line if you want to know more.
Evo a bit too balls out for every day driving (I think it may piss you off driving down rough roads in it), but go very slightly better and handle very slightly better, marginal maybe on rougher surfaces.
Delta, unfortunately, too unreliable, but I love them, just not for long.
Negative points for the Scooby, service intervals, low twenties MPG, dash.
I ran a 5dr turbo for 2 years and did 30k miles, excellent all round car, gets my vote.
I imported mine from Holland to the UK in 2000, list price was 22k, I got it for 15k on the road, you may be able to do better than this now as they are trying to get rid of them before the new one comes out. So you never know you may be able to get a new one for around 12-13k, very worth looking into.
It worked out that when I traded the car in for a Civic Type R I very nearly got what I paid for it after 2 years and 30k miles, only lost a grand, if I had bought from the UK I would have lost 6k!
Anyway I like 'em and so does anyone who has ever driven one.
Mail me off line if you want to know more.
This kind of depends... If you kept the peugeot I'd say Evo everytime, truly fantastic cars. If it is your only car I'd go for the Scooby. I really thought about an Evo as my only car, tested a couple etc, but decided that they may just need a bit much TLC on a regular basis to go for it. That said if you can find a good specialist that might ease things. The Scooby is OK for what it is, but boring by comparison to the character of the Evo. It would probably need less TLC though!
Twit
Twit
It just has to be the EVO, every single time. I have got a rather less than standard Integrale 16v (same engine as the EVO). Mine has had lots of work, new cams, new ECU, head ported/flowed/polished, fully adjustable Koni suspension, bigger brakes etc etc. pushes out around 300bhp and lots of torque with it, not a wheezy jap 300bhp (It's in my profile). Anyway, the difference between a Scooby and an Integrale is phenomenal.
The basic question, is what is the car for? If you want a sports car, get the EVO, if you want a shopping car, get the Scooby. The scooby probably won't even excite you as much as the 205. Someone made comments about 'marginally' better handling, basically, that is poo
the integrale habdles like a sports car, it is perfectly balanced and then when your right foot tells it to, the arse will come round to say hello. The steering is sharp, the turn in quick. It's not just a shopping car with a big engine, it is a sports car. Additionally, from a reputable garage like Walkers in North Yorkshire, you can get a reliable 250bhp no problem, they then get it on a 4wd rollling road and sort out all the mapping, this is £1000. Scoobies would be hard pushed to keep up then (they only keep up in a straight line anyway, and that's a standard grale no such thing as a standard scooby).
Basically, if you want a girls car, get a scooby, if you want a real sports car with arse out action that you won't feel inclined to fit blue LED's to the washers, get the grale. Even when mine is just sat there it looks like it's getting ready to go and eat some kids
Sorry to any scooby owners, I absolutely loved the little blighters, until I drove an Integrale. I'm sure they're not all bad, they're just a bit, you know, common
Edited to add: Yes I've test drove Scoobies too, even a proper STI RA with roof vent, close ratio box and aluminium (which was very nice actually
) it's just that they are far too Japanese, and not Italian enough, if you know what I mean
>> Edited by moleamol on Tuesday 10th December 18:37
The basic question, is what is the car for? If you want a sports car, get the EVO, if you want a shopping car, get the Scooby. The scooby probably won't even excite you as much as the 205. Someone made comments about 'marginally' better handling, basically, that is poo
the integrale habdles like a sports car, it is perfectly balanced and then when your right foot tells it to, the arse will come round to say hello. The steering is sharp, the turn in quick. It's not just a shopping car with a big engine, it is a sports car. Additionally, from a reputable garage like Walkers in North Yorkshire, you can get a reliable 250bhp no problem, they then get it on a 4wd rollling road and sort out all the mapping, this is £1000. Scoobies would be hard pushed to keep up then (they only keep up in a straight line anyway, and that's a standard grale no such thing as a standard scooby). Basically, if you want a girls car, get a scooby, if you want a real sports car with arse out action that you won't feel inclined to fit blue LED's to the washers, get the grale. Even when mine is just sat there it looks like it's getting ready to go and eat some kids
Sorry to any scooby owners, I absolutely loved the little blighters, until I drove an Integrale. I'm sure they're not all bad, they're just a bit, you know, common
Edited to add: Yes I've test drove Scoobies too, even a proper STI RA with roof vent, close ratio box and aluminium (which was very nice actually
) it's just that they are far too Japanese, and not Italian enough, if you know what I mean >> Edited by moleamol on Tuesday 10th December 18:37
Hmmm...right' O then.
I did mention that I loved the DELTA, when refering to the EVO I meant the Mitsubishi offering not the Lancia, but thankyou for your comments. I found that the DELTA handled superbly, very pointy compared to the Scoobies tendency to understeer, but this can be remedied by flicking the rear out just before the bend under breaking, very controlable.
I just felt that for the particular purpose described the Scooby would be hard to beat, not a which car is better debate, they are all excellent cars and they are all shopping cars with a big engine and AWD, it's just which one suits your needs the better.
Reliability was mentioned as a requirement, hence, I personally would have only considered the two Jap offerings. IMHO.
I did mention that I loved the DELTA, when refering to the EVO I meant the Mitsubishi offering not the Lancia, but thankyou for your comments. I found that the DELTA handled superbly, very pointy compared to the Scoobies tendency to understeer, but this can be remedied by flicking the rear out just before the bend under breaking, very controlable.
I just felt that for the particular purpose described the Scooby would be hard to beat, not a which car is better debate, they are all excellent cars and they are all shopping cars with a big engine and AWD, it's just which one suits your needs the better.
Reliability was mentioned as a requirement, hence, I personally would have only considered the two Jap offerings. IMHO.
Ooooooooooooooooh look at mr sensible
dougal said: Hmmm...right' O then.
I did mention that I loved the DELTA, when refering to the EVO I meant the Mitsubishi offering not the Lancia, but thankyou for your comments. I found that the DELTA handled superbly, very pointy compared to the Scoobies tendency to understeer, but this can be remedied by flicking the rear out just before the bend under breaking, very controlable.
I just felt that for the particular purpose described the Scooby would be hard to beat, not a which car is better debate, they are all excellent cars and they are all shopping cars with a big engine and AWD, it's just which one suits your needs the better.
Reliability was mentioned as a requirement, hence, I personally would have only considered the two Jap offerings. IMHO.
And I know the scoobies are very controllable, that's why they are boring
Edited to add: The best car is the Integrale btw
>> Edited by moleamol on Tuesday 10th December 19:11
I had an Integrale Evo 2 for two years. If you need it as an everyday car, I really don't recommend it. In the end I had to get rid of it because it was wearing me out (I was doing 300km round trips on a regular basis in desert heat). My failure to stay young is not the car's fault, BTW. It was an absolute blast, way way better than a Scooby for making one feel special every time you got in and turned the key (even before you turned the key in fact). The thing that swings it for me over the Scooby are the looks, exclusivity, interior (esp the Evo 2 with the winged high-back Recaros), steering feel (Scooby is too synthesised IMO) and rear wheel bias.
It's just that if you're looking for a sensible car, the Scooby will be a lot more user-friendly - more compliant ride, less TLC required (I had to make a 150 mile round trip every time I wanted to service the Integrale at a proper specialist - John Whalley - and that's pretty good compared to some owners who might end up compromising at a lesser garage), and probably more reliable, although the Integrale's engine durability is hard to fault.
It's just that if you're looking for a sensible car, the Scooby will be a lot more user-friendly - more compliant ride, less TLC required (I had to make a 150 mile round trip every time I wanted to service the Integrale at a proper specialist - John Whalley - and that's pretty good compared to some owners who might end up compromising at a lesser garage), and probably more reliable, although the Integrale's engine durability is hard to fault.
Harris_I said: I had an Integrale Evo 2 for two years. If you need it as an everyday car, I really don't recommend it. In the end I had to get rid of it because it was wearing me out (I was doing 300km round trips on a regular basis in desert heat). My failure to stay young is not the car's fault, BTW. It was an absolute blast, way way better than a Scooby for making one feel special every time you got in and turned the key (even before you turned the key in fact). The thing that swings it for me over the Scooby are the looks, exclusivity, interior (esp the Evo 2 with the winged high-back Recaros), steering feel (Scooby is too synthesised IMO) and rear wheel bias.
It's just that if you're looking for a sensible car, the Scooby will be a lot more user-friendly - more compliant ride, less TLC required (I had to make a 150 mile round trip every time I wanted to service the Integrale at a proper specialist - John Whalley - and that's pretty good compared to some owners who might end up compromising at a lesser garage), and probably more reliable, although the Integrale's engine durability is hard to fault.
I would agree, I think this chap is pretty much spot on, if I wasn't so biased that was probably what I meant to say I also have a 220 mile round trip to get to my garage.My brother has an Integrale as everyday car and he hardly uses it but spends loads of money on it. We both (in a joint effort) had another one and sold it recently. There are modern cars which offer more for the money, e.g. the SEAT Cupra 4x4 or a decent Audi Qua... I want one. I go for the 2.8 A4 Avant.
Grale is a special car ,lovely to look at with great pedigree, but you will need to be a very special driver to get the beter of a normal driver in a Scoob , specialy on a rough road . a Scoob will wipe the floor with any car on a rough wet road , it realy is so easy to drive fast (too easy officer !)but makes you feel like it's you thats special . a car that is more than the sum of it's parts
Head says Scooby, Heart says EVO...
John
Yeap I think that about sums it up really for me. I love the EVO but, I need to be able to live with it, and if I need to get it services every 2 months it'll start doing my head in, and it'll lose my love..
BUT at half the price verses the depreciation on the scooby - arrhhh its too close a contest.
I'm not worried about the fact there's lots of Scooby's, because down this was they are not very common at all, neither is the EVO (but more so than the UK).
Is the scooby as gutless off teh turbo's as the EVO?
I had a Prodrive modded UK Scooby for just over 2 years. Did 53K miles including several track days with no reliability issues at all. The car wasn't No.1 on the JD Power Survey for a couple of years running for no reason.
If you go to this page (posted by CraigAlsop yesterday on 22B thread), It will tell you nearly everything you need to know about a Scooby.
www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm
Also if you want to kill the understeer set the car up as per the Prodrive settings detailed in the link, you will wear your front tyres out faster though!
Never driven an Integrale, however I can say that a Scooby is very fast point to point, easy to drive and very reliable. They are also capable of taking big miles without issues (but watch that the belt changes have been done correctly and clutch replacement can be a bit pricey (but mine was still on original clutch after 53K hard miles))
davidy
If you go to this page (posted by CraigAlsop yesterday on 22B thread), It will tell you nearly everything you need to know about a Scooby.
www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm
Also if you want to kill the understeer set the car up as per the Prodrive settings detailed in the link, you will wear your front tyres out faster though!
Never driven an Integrale, however I can say that a Scooby is very fast point to point, easy to drive and very reliable. They are also capable of taking big miles without issues (but watch that the belt changes have been done correctly and clutch replacement can be a bit pricey (but mine was still on original clutch after 53K hard miles))
davidy
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