Racing harnesses
Discussion
Talk to Tower View - they fitted a harness mount (not a roll bar) to my 400 a few years ago. Can't tell you the cost, as it was done with other work. That takes care of the rear fixing, with an eye bolt mounted through the rear shelf to the chassis. New eye bolts replace the 2 existing lower mounts, allowing the existing belt to be retained, and the new harness to be attached. I've never bothered to check the regs. And you need to be careful when buying a harness, as most will have a rear strap which is way too long for the Wedge installation. I got mine direct from Willans, with a shorter rear strap.
7.
7.
Your choice, but fwiw I strongly recommend against fitting a harness without decent roll-over protection. With a normal lap/diagonal you can roll sideways out of harms way, with a good harness you are locked in position and you are head and shoulders higher than the strong points on the car.
number 7 said:
Talk to Tower View - they fitted a harness mount (not a roll bar) to my 400 a few years ago. Can't tell you the cost, as it was done with other work. That takes care of the rear fixing, with an eye bolt mounted through the rear shelf to the chassis. New eye bolts replace the 2 existing lower mounts, allowing the existing belt to be retained, and the new harness to be attached. I've never bothered to check the regs. And you need to be careful when buying a harness, as most will have a rear strap which is way too long for the Wedge installation. I got mine direct from Willans, with a shorter rear strap.
7.
When I fitted the roll bar I put in a mounting for a harness and planned to replace the existing seat belt mounts with eye bolts. Finding something that fitted was a bit of a challenge and so I rang Willans with a view to having something made. I sent some pics and measurement information to them but I was told that using the existing seatbelt mounts was no good as they are too far back and so the harness would 'ride up'. They really need to be straight down, which would require a mounting some 6 inches further forward.
So in practice is this really a problem? I would still prefer to fit them.
>> Edited by SEvans on Monday 30th January 12:55
SEvans said:
When I fitted the roll bar I put in a mounting for a harness and planned to replace the existing seat belt mounts with eye bolts. Finding something that fitted was a bit of a challenge and so I rang Willans with a view to having something made. I sent some pics and measurement information to them but I was told that using the existing seatbelt mounts was no good as they are too far back and so the harness would 'ride up'. They really need to be straight down, which would require a mounting some 6 inches further forward.
So in practice is this really a problem? I would still prefer to fit them.
>> Edited by SEvans on Monday 30th January 12:55
Whilst the lower mounts are not ideally placed, IMHO there is more chance of someone submarining or the belt riding up when using the original seat belt. I'm using 3" straps, compared to c. 1.75" for the standard seatbelt, and the Willans webbing is much thicker. I tighten the lap belt first, to ensure that its a low as it can go, and, although its never been crash tested, I far prefer it to the standard belt. As Pete says, I guess a roll bar is the way to go, but for a road car, which is essentially what mine is, I didn't want to lose the space on the shelf that the bar would take up. I also recall people complaining about increased noise levels being transmitted into the cabin, not to mention, for me, I think they spoil the looks of the car! If you've already got the mount anyway, I'd give it a try and see what it feels like.
7.
It's your neck (literally), but before fitting the harness without rollover protection you might want to bear in mind that rolling the car will almost certainly be fatal if you do this. IMO space on the shelf, or extra noise levels, are utterly irrelevent compared to the fact that the car will be substantially more dangerous. It doesn't take much to roll the car, look at any significant accident and it seems that half the cars involved roll at some point, and if you are involved in one of these with a harness and no rollover protection you are basically dead.
I'd second that, there is no way i'd put a harness in a car with out a properly designed and mounted rollbar first.
in fact my chim has a roll bar and no harness...
my 2 pet hates are incorrectly fitted harnesses and poorly located rollbars and i've seen plenty of both. the biggest problem you get with harneses is the location of the rear straps. I've seen some saloon cars with the rear strap going almost straight down behind the seat.. in a shunt all thats going to do it break your back
the very worst i've seen has a harness with all the belts carefully located and the rear straps connected to a roll bar... trouble was the roll bar was held in with self tapping screws
in a shunt all that would have happened is the rollbar probably getting half way through the driver & passengers heads..
Also when fitting a roll bar you need to think about its location. if its too close to your head, in a shunt your head could hit it, which would be like some one hitting you in the head with a hammer....
My advice if you want a harness use it with a roll bar, and if you do fit them make sure its done properly...
G
in fact my chim has a roll bar and no harness...
my 2 pet hates are incorrectly fitted harnesses and poorly located rollbars and i've seen plenty of both. the biggest problem you get with harneses is the location of the rear straps. I've seen some saloon cars with the rear strap going almost straight down behind the seat.. in a shunt all thats going to do it break your back
the very worst i've seen has a harness with all the belts carefully located and the rear straps connected to a roll bar... trouble was the roll bar was held in with self tapping screws
in a shunt all that would have happened is the rollbar probably getting half way through the driver & passengers heads..
Also when fitting a roll bar you need to think about its location. if its too close to your head, in a shunt your head could hit it, which would be like some one hitting you in the head with a hammer....
My advice if you want a harness use it with a roll bar, and if you do fit them make sure its done properly...
G
Each to their own I guess - at least we haven't reached the levels of nanny state yet where convertibles are banned completely. I think there's a world of difference between the risk of an accident in a sprint / race vs. on the road. Just a question of trying to balance those risks. It could be argued that TVR's are a riskier proposition than the majority of cars on the road to start with - no driver aids, airbags, seat-belt tensioners etc., but to some that's part of the appeal. Do I also recall that some Griffs. had factory fit harness mounts (sans roll-bar) or am I confused?
7.
7.
Once you've sorted out the issue of rollover protection and whether you want to die or not, you get to the issue of harness selection.
You can buy cheap tacky push button harnesses for £50, but it is well worth paying the extra for a decent quality rotary release and 3" straps. At first glance it may appear that you need the 'westfield' spec specially shortened tail straps, but you will find that the normal straps can be shortened far more than you would think at first sight, you can shorten them so far the clip actually touches the joining plate putting the mounting eye bolt 6-8 inches away from the seat. You can usually mount the lower straps to the existing seat belt mounting positions, by replacing the standard bolt with an eye bolt. The only time this gets a bit marginal is if you are really really short and have the seat moved right forward; for most people it should be fine. You will find that you need a 1.5" long eye bolt rather than the standard 0.75" ones so make sure you order them with the harness.
The position of the rear straps is quite critical. The sideways position needs to be within about 15 degrees of the centre line of the seat. The vertical position needs to be so that thay are no more than 45 degrees from horizontal. The mountings also needs to be rated for a combined impact load of about half a ton and for the purposes of stress calculations you should assume the fibreglass has zero strength.
You can buy cheap tacky push button harnesses for £50, but it is well worth paying the extra for a decent quality rotary release and 3" straps. At first glance it may appear that you need the 'westfield' spec specially shortened tail straps, but you will find that the normal straps can be shortened far more than you would think at first sight, you can shorten them so far the clip actually touches the joining plate putting the mounting eye bolt 6-8 inches away from the seat. You can usually mount the lower straps to the existing seat belt mounting positions, by replacing the standard bolt with an eye bolt. The only time this gets a bit marginal is if you are really really short and have the seat moved right forward; for most people it should be fine. You will find that you need a 1.5" long eye bolt rather than the standard 0.75" ones so make sure you order them with the harness.
The position of the rear straps is quite critical. The sideways position needs to be within about 15 degrees of the centre line of the seat. The vertical position needs to be so that thay are no more than 45 degrees from horizontal. The mountings also needs to be rated for a combined impact load of about half a ton and for the purposes of stress calculations you should assume the fibreglass has zero strength.
I pick my roll bar up next week from Tower View. Did some research and this is the best one to fit and comes with the points to fit the harness. Talk to Mark or Dave, very helpful chaps. Also this roll bar is specifically designed to fit in a wedge, so overcomes allot of the comments mentioned above.
Doug
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 30th January 20:09
Doug
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 30th January 20:09
cdt said:
Does it feel very different driving when you are strapped in with a harness?
Huge difference, it's like having power steering and makes driving far easier, you can feel the steering feedback far more clearly because you no longer need to brace yourself with your arms.
cdt said:
So £50-£100 for the harness. How much labour is involved in fitting it?
It's simple to do, but access behind the seat is a bit awkward. You'll probably want to take the seat out the first time, so allow a couple of hours. Before you start, confirm that your rollover bar has got mounting bobbins installed in the rear legs for the eye bolts.
cdt said:
Does it feel very different driving when you are strapped in with a harness?
So £50-£100 for the harness. How much labour is involved in fitting it?
On the road I hate harnesses as you can't move forward to look round things, or look over your shoulder. Sort of like how you can't duck to stop your head being chopped off if the car is upsidedown.
If you are planning to use harnesses on the road, I suggest that you try them in someone elses car to see how restricted you are first. Also, remember that the straps are designed to stretch in a crash, so it you have them slack to start with (so you can move in them), they won't stop you hitting the steering wheel.
If you buy a cheap harness with a push button (~£50) buckle then it is MOT friendly as it has a red button. If you buy a rottary buckle type one (~£100, FIA approved so you could go racing), you *should* have to leave the seatbelts too, depends on the MOT tester though.
Pete
Despite the issue with not being able to easily bend forward or turn to see if things are coming I don't have much problem with 3" harnesses on the road. You can always have both (ie leave the seat belt in too) but, like Peter, I find the harnesses add a lot to the feedback that you get when driving (even more when not having a race seat). I have a 5 point rotary release and repositioned mountings. I just wouldn't go back to using the seatbelt.
I have a spare push-button harness if you are interested.
This doesn't show the mountings very well but I can provide a better pic from home if you want. The passenger side is still the narrower push-button harness.
I have a spare push-button harness if you are interested.
This doesn't show the mountings very well but I can provide a better pic from home if you want. The passenger side is still the narrower push-button harness.
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