Getting away with Murder,Milly Dowler.
Discussion
I cant remember where i read it but this country has quite a few unsolved murders/abductions,including Suzie Lamplugh and Milly Dowler.
Sitting at the station rank between jobs gives me time to think and some of my jobs i get late at night with sleepers cover two basic areas ,the first area is Aldershot,Farnborough,Camberley,Eversley & Fleet.
The second zone i take sleepers too is Woking,Surbiton,West Byfleet,Walton & Weybridge.
Most sleepers for smaller stations up line get off the fast train at woking then catch the slower trains to the smaller stations,but when they oversleep Basingstoke is normally the next stop.
The slow train that goes from Waterloo-Southampton services all stations including Fleet,Walton and also Weybridge and i cant help but think there is a link here somewhere.
These are places where she lived,went to school and where her body/remains were found.
Its coming up 4 years since her abduction and murder and it must be 20 plus years since Suzie Lamplugh went missing and i am always concerned at WHY the police have never found the evidence to get convictions.
I think its pretty sure that anything from 20 years ago is going to be hard to prove but 4 years ago?,there could still be a chance,did the police look in the right areas?,are our police as good as we would want them to be or our there people out there that are too clever for our police force?.
Sitting at the station rank between jobs gives me time to think and some of my jobs i get late at night with sleepers cover two basic areas ,the first area is Aldershot,Farnborough,Camberley,Eversley & Fleet.
The second zone i take sleepers too is Woking,Surbiton,West Byfleet,Walton & Weybridge.
Most sleepers for smaller stations up line get off the fast train at woking then catch the slower trains to the smaller stations,but when they oversleep Basingstoke is normally the next stop.
The slow train that goes from Waterloo-Southampton services all stations including Fleet,Walton and also Weybridge and i cant help but think there is a link here somewhere.
These are places where she lived,went to school and where her body/remains were found.
Its coming up 4 years since her abduction and murder and it must be 20 plus years since Suzie Lamplugh went missing and i am always concerned at WHY the police have never found the evidence to get convictions.
I think its pretty sure that anything from 20 years ago is going to be hard to prove but 4 years ago?,there could still be a chance,did the police look in the right areas?,are our police as good as we would want them to be or our there people out there that are too clever for our police force?.
, i cant help it i get a lot of time to think 
Murder is usually a crime of passion, anger or mental illness. The sort of person who commits such acts rarely consider how they will cover their tracks, this makes the police's job a lot easier.
Anyone with a biochemistry/molecular biology background would find it very easy to cover their forensic tracks. This only leaves time/place/motive issues to deal with, again a little thought and knowledge of how a police investigation works and murder is very easy to get away with. There's also the element of luck involved; many killers are caught on tiny details, by the same token many killers never get caught because tiny details are missed in the welter of information any investigation throws up.
Anyone with a biochemistry/molecular biology background would find it very easy to cover their forensic tracks. This only leaves time/place/motive issues to deal with, again a little thought and knowledge of how a police investigation works and murder is very easy to get away with. There's also the element of luck involved; many killers are caught on tiny details, by the same token many killers never get caught because tiny details are missed in the welter of information any investigation throws up.
MilnerR said:
Murder is usually a crime of passion, anger or mental illness. The sort of person who commits such acts rarely consider how they will cover their tracks, this makes the police's job a lot easier.
Anyone with a biochemistry/molecular biology background would find it very easy to cover their forensic tracks. This only leaves time/place/motive issues to deal with, again a little thought and knowledge of how a police investigation works and murder is very easy to get away with. There's also the element of luck involved; many killers are caught on tiny details, by the same token many killers never get caught because tiny details are missed in the welter of information any investigation throws up.
This is more than an element of luck,the offender had atleast two occasions where he/she/they/? would of been in a position of compromise,the abduction and the disposal.
If the abductors vehicle is still around then it will have DNA still present otherwise it would of come under stolen and burned from a specific area around that time.
wedg1e said:
In similar vein, and showing how people forget, what was the name of that young girl who was supposedly abducted in a van, later found in a shallow grave?
Probably the next most-famous after Soham and the young lad killed on the railway (jeez, I can't remember him either)...
Do you mean Jamie Bulger his killers are out now i think? i cant rember the girl.
wedg1e said:
In similar vein, and showing how people forget, what was the name of that young girl who was supposedly abducted in a van, later found in a shallow grave?
Probably the next most-famous after Soham and the young lad killed on the railway (jeez, I can't remember him either
Sarah Payne?
MilnerR said:
Murder is usually a crime of passion, anger or mental illness. The sort of person who commits such acts rarely consider how they will cover their tracks, this makes the police's job a lot easier.
Anyone with a biochemistry/molecular biology background would find it very easy to cover their forensic tracks. This only leaves time/place/motive issues to deal with, again a little thought and knowledge of how a police investigation works and murder is very easy to get away with. There's also the element of luck involved; many killers are caught on tiny details, by the same token many killers never get caught because tiny details are missed in the welter of information any investigation throws up.
Remind me to never really piss off a biochemist
Ive been reading the news articles on the net and if i were to build a killer profile of the milly case.
Male...Highly likely.
Commutor..Highly likely.
Worked evenings in central London... likely.
This threw me at first as i thought she caught the down line train after school,but have since seen its an up line train,the time would probably corrospond with someone going to an evening shift in the London or Central London area.
In the entertainments trade .....likely.
Had a regular rail card....highly likely.
Drives also ...Certainty.
Lives and Knows the Fleet and Eversley areas well...very likely.
Caught a cab from a staion in their time of using the rail network(if its a small staion like Fleet)...highly likely
(if its too small like Winchfield then there are no cabs would come into region of nearest bigger stn)...unlikely.
("Specific Area" could be worked out by Zoning,that is using taxi drivers logs to work out the out the furthest point of out lying areas the cabs go to from a Railway stn),i can clearly define the areas i go to in my local borough and draw a ring around my town.
Above average intellegence ...Highly likely.(He/they would have evaded the police and public eye at atleast two points and have good knowledge of the Fleet-Walton-Weybridge areas)
Holds a good Job,perhaps in management....Highly likely.
Since the case ,changed rail lines from Waterloo line to Paddington line...Likely.
Or goes by road.....likely.
Views young girl porn.....Highly likely.
Paid for internet access to it with CC......Highly likely.
Would of been familiar to the victim before the abduction....Certainty.
Used the A3,M25,M3,A30 as a route out...Certainty.
The key is to find the vehicle or the history of it around that time,it probably disapeared or was sold in a period of time after the disposal.
Male...Highly likely.
Commutor..Highly likely.
Worked evenings in central London... likely.
This threw me at first as i thought she caught the down line train after school,but have since seen its an up line train,the time would probably corrospond with someone going to an evening shift in the London or Central London area.
In the entertainments trade .....likely.
Had a regular rail card....highly likely.
Drives also ...Certainty.
Lives and Knows the Fleet and Eversley areas well...very likely.
Caught a cab from a staion in their time of using the rail network(if its a small staion like Fleet)...highly likely
(if its too small like Winchfield then there are no cabs would come into region of nearest bigger stn)...unlikely.
ZR1cliff said:
.
If the abductors vehicle is still around then it will have DNA still present otherwise it would of come under stolen and burned from a "specific area" around that time.
("Specific Area" could be worked out by Zoning,that is using taxi drivers logs to work out the out the furthest point of out lying areas the cabs go to from a Railway stn),i can clearly define the areas i go to in my local borough and draw a ring around my town.
Above average intellegence ...Highly likely.(He/they would have evaded the police and public eye at atleast two points and have good knowledge of the Fleet-Walton-Weybridge areas)
Holds a good Job,perhaps in management....Highly likely.
Since the case ,changed rail lines from Waterloo line to Paddington line...Likely.
Or goes by road.....likely.
Views young girl porn.....Highly likely.
Paid for internet access to it with CC......Highly likely.
Would of been familiar to the victim before the abduction....Certainty.
Used the A3,M25,M3,A30 as a route out...Certainty.
The key is to find the vehicle or the history of it around that time,it probably disapeared or was sold in a period of time after the disposal.
cymtriks said:
In similar vein, and showing how people forget, what was the name of that young girl who was supposedly abducted in a van, later found in a shallow grave?
Probably the next most-famous after Soham and the young lad killed on the railway (jeez, I can't remember him either
Sarah Payne?
That's the one.
... and yes, Jamie Bulger. Ironic that you remember the names of the killers and not the victims.
I remember the Suzie Lamplugh case - I worked in Balham at the time. She was an estate agent and was supposedly meeting a Mr Kipper at a property. Very sad. Didn't they have somebody in the frame for it fairly recently?
There was also that woman killed on Wimbledon Common, where the police set up an elaborate plan to get somebody to confess. I think it involved a WPC starting a relationship with the suspect. The case was thrown out by the court.
I think that where the victim is not known to the killer, it is very difficult for the murderer to be tracked down.
There was also that woman killed on Wimbledon Common, where the police set up an elaborate plan to get somebody to confess. I think it involved a WPC starting a relationship with the suspect. The case was thrown out by the court.
I think that where the victim is not known to the killer, it is very difficult for the murderer to be tracked down.
wedg1e said:
In similar vein, and showing how people forget, what was the name of that young girl who was supposedly abducted in a van, later found in a shallow grave?
Probably the next most-famous after Soham and the young lad killed on the railway (jeez, I can't remember him either
Sarah Payne?
That's the one.
... and yes, Jamie Bulger. Ironic that you remember the names of the killers and not the victims.
Just a detail, but he was James Bulger, only the tabloids called him "Jamie".
welsh blackbird said:
I remember the Suzie Lamplugh case - I worked in Balham at the time. She was an estate agent and was supposedly meeting a Mr Kipper at a property. Very sad. Didn't they have somebody in the frame for it fairly recently?
There was also that woman killed on Wimbledon Common, where the police set up an elaborate plan to get somebody to confess. I think it involved a WPC starting a relationship with the suspect. The case was thrown out by the court.
I think that where the victim is not known to the killer, it is very difficult for the murderer to be tracked down.
Was that Colin Stagg with the Wimbldon Common case,also concerning the Lamplugh case my ex wife's sister used to work for an estate agents around that time in SW London(last name Hills,you wont believe her first name
) they had a call from a Mr Kipper or Kyper to view a property in Fleet.......she was questioned about it but never knew the outcome.ZR1cliff said:
Ive been reading the news articles on the net and if i were to build a killer profile of the milly case.
...
Commutor..Highly likely
Drives also ...Certainty.
...
what makes you think it was a commuter? (mind you, using SWT regularly would drive you mad...)
perhaps his trade involves alot of driving? e.g. mini-cabbing, delivieries etc.
i know quite a few people in the Fleet area, and none of them commute by train.
fido said:
what makes you think it was a commuter?
She went in broad daylight of her own free will,so she must of known or had some contact to reasure her of the person,ive read some where she caught a train home and it is possible that even a regular face on a train with a reasuring smile is possible to make a relaxed connection,so much so that if they approached you at a later date in a vehicle it would not alarm you.
A Slow train stops at Weybridge and Walton,but would also stop at Fleet further down the line aswell as all the other stations...its a coincidence her remains ended up in Fleet.
Without knowing the route she took home contact would of been made from (school-stn) (stn-stn) and (stn-home) now it is possible a connection with a person was made on any of these three,but which one would have an easy or oppurtunist link to Fleet?.
Its highly possible IMO that she was seen by the fugitive before the abduction and possibly folowed so he knew her route home ,then one day turned up in a car.
Ive only looked at the car in the photo of one of the articles a few times ,to me it looks like a scooby or a evo,but ime not sure,(if it came from the vette family i would know what it was in a blink) and find it hard that no one has made a positive identity on the model of car.
Plod has a suspect for the Suzy Lamplugh case, he has been interviewed twice and NOT eliminated from the enquiry. It would seem whatever evidence they have is insufficient to prosecute....
As for the scumbag that murdered Sarah Payne, (Roy Whiting) his first offence was for a sexual assault on a young girl, for which he served...(wait for it) 2 years of a 4 year sentence. He agreed to undergo voluntary treatment for his "disorder"....he failed to do so and we know the rest.
When he was jailed the judge handed down a life sentence with the recomendation that he never be released. Just over a year later, David Blunkett ordered that he serve at least 50 years, which would mean Whiting would be 92 before he got out. Within 48 hours the ruling was voided by the ECHR and the House of Lords both of which stated that it is illegal for a Politician to set such terms...
A length of rope and a trapdoor would be more appropriate.
As for the scumbag that murdered Sarah Payne, (Roy Whiting) his first offence was for a sexual assault on a young girl, for which he served...(wait for it) 2 years of a 4 year sentence. He agreed to undergo voluntary treatment for his "disorder"....he failed to do so and we know the rest.
When he was jailed the judge handed down a life sentence with the recomendation that he never be released. Just over a year later, David Blunkett ordered that he serve at least 50 years, which would mean Whiting would be 92 before he got out. Within 48 hours the ruling was voided by the ECHR and the House of Lords both of which stated that it is illegal for a Politician to set such terms...
A length of rope and a trapdoor would be more appropriate.
ZR1cliff said:
Ive only looked at the car in the photo of one of the articles a few times ,to me it looks like a scooby or a evo,but ime not sure,(if it came from the vette family i would know what it was in a blink) and find it hard that no one has made a positive identity on the model of car.
Is there a link to the car picture anywhere?
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