Advice please, bought a damaged car.
Discussion
HI all.
My boss has recently found out her car was involved in an accident, before she bought it.
The car is an 04 Ibiza FR and was bought from a dealer, at 7 months old.
She has just had a problem with paint crazing on one of the sills, and has consequently found out there is only a one year warranty on the 'repairs', as opposed to the 3 years manufacturers warranty.
The repairs were not mentioned when she bought the car or any reduced warranty period related to these. She has now established that work was done to "nearside, offside and to the rear end".
HPI check have confirmed that their records wouldn't have shown anything unless the vehicle had been written off.
Is there any comback on this? She paid full market value for a good condition vehicle and is now not sure that is what she got.
Thanks for any advice.
My boss has recently found out her car was involved in an accident, before she bought it.
The car is an 04 Ibiza FR and was bought from a dealer, at 7 months old.
She has just had a problem with paint crazing on one of the sills, and has consequently found out there is only a one year warranty on the 'repairs', as opposed to the 3 years manufacturers warranty.
The repairs were not mentioned when she bought the car or any reduced warranty period related to these. She has now established that work was done to "nearside, offside and to the rear end".
HPI check have confirmed that their records wouldn't have shown anything unless the vehicle had been written off.
Is there any comback on this? She paid full market value for a good condition vehicle and is now not sure that is what she got.
Thanks for any advice.
No onus I'm aware of on having to declare anything.
So long as the item is fit for the purpose, then you're going to struggle with any comeback. If it drives, stops and does everything else a car should, then crazed paintwork isn't going to be enough for s.15. (Might be able to argue it if the car was purchased as a concours model or similar).
You can have the faults rectified, but double check your warranty in case it's only major parts.
If it was bought on the understand that there was a manufacturer's warranty, then it might be applicable to claim for the difference in value between the same madel with and without a warranty.
Other than that, I'm afraid it's 'caveat emptor'.
So long as the item is fit for the purpose, then you're going to struggle with any comeback. If it drives, stops and does everything else a car should, then crazed paintwork isn't going to be enough for s.15. (Might be able to argue it if the car was purchased as a concours model or similar).
You can have the faults rectified, but double check your warranty in case it's only major parts.
If it was bought on the understand that there was a manufacturer's warranty, then it might be applicable to claim for the difference in value between the same madel with and without a warranty.
Other than that, I'm afraid it's 'caveat emptor'.
Contact Seat UK Customer services.
If it's the usual VAG deal, it'll have a 10 year anti-corrosion warranty. Ask if this applies to the repairs, if they say no, then you have a base to work from.
Likewise the paintwork warranty (3 years?). You would reasonably expect to have the balance of that on a 7 month old car, if CS say no, again you have some ammo.
C.A.B are worth a call too.
>> Edited by monkeyhanger on Monday 30th January 16:48
If it's the usual VAG deal, it'll have a 10 year anti-corrosion warranty. Ask if this applies to the repairs, if they say no, then you have a base to work from.
Likewise the paintwork warranty (3 years?). You would reasonably expect to have the balance of that on a 7 month old car, if CS say no, again you have some ammo.
C.A.B are worth a call too.
>> Edited by monkeyhanger on Monday 30th January 16:48
The principle in most cases like these is 'caveat emptor' - let the buyer beware.
The seller has a duty not to misrepresent the car however, thus if she asked the question and she was told that the car was not damaged and repaired then she would have been misrepresented. This is what it will come down to.
A better way forward rather than a legal route would be to confront the dealer about it, they may be able to to something about the paintwork, but the chances of success in a legal route with regard to the purchase situation may be bleak.
If they are an authorised dealer, you may have some leverage, similarly if you were to hint on asking Trading Standards to investigate the situation, they may be able to offer some goodwill. The other factor is that if it was a crash damaged Ferrari, this may knock £20k from the value of a car. In this scenario, it may only me a few hundred quid. This may be in the realms of possibility for any goodwill gesture, but probably not worth the hassle of starting legal proceedings over.
The seller has a duty not to misrepresent the car however, thus if she asked the question and she was told that the car was not damaged and repaired then she would have been misrepresented. This is what it will come down to.
A better way forward rather than a legal route would be to confront the dealer about it, they may be able to to something about the paintwork, but the chances of success in a legal route with regard to the purchase situation may be bleak.
If they are an authorised dealer, you may have some leverage, similarly if you were to hint on asking Trading Standards to investigate the situation, they may be able to offer some goodwill. The other factor is that if it was a crash damaged Ferrari, this may knock £20k from the value of a car. In this scenario, it may only me a few hundred quid. This may be in the realms of possibility for any goodwill gesture, but probably not worth the hassle of starting legal proceedings over.
Tunnelmeister said:
Did it come up on any HPI ??
She emailed the HPI people, and they said it wouldn't have come up unless it had been written off. Didn't get it done at the time as she was buying from a dealer.
So even if you HPI a car damage won't come up and you are relying on the dealer to point it out? Seems a bit off.
monkeyhanger said:
Likewise the paintwork warranty (3 years?). You would reasonably expect to have the balance of that on a 7 month old car, if CS say no, again you have some ammo.
That's what I was thinking.
If it was something major that had failed or got broken I would have expected the car to be back to the same standard as before, including the warranty.
Also not quite sure what sort of accident would have caused damage to both sides of the car as well as the rear and, presumably, persuaded the previous owner to get shot of it. The paint crazing is just what brought this to light.
I am under the impression that if it was an authorised dealer offering the car for sale then the description must be accurate. If it is not then the buyer may have a case under the tort of misrepresentation. In this circumstance the dealer should have known it had been accident-damaged and repaired therefore the description should include this information. To fail to mention it is misrepresentation.
If it was a private party selling the vehicle then they could possibly get away with saying they did not know about it. I recommend a chat to the seller with the aim of them refunding the money and taking the car back (presuming it was a dealer here). If they do not accomodate this then I would suggest a chat with the CAB or a solicitor.
Good luck!
If it was a private party selling the vehicle then they could possibly get away with saying they did not know about it. I recommend a chat to the seller with the aim of them refunding the money and taking the car back (presuming it was a dealer here). If they do not accomodate this then I would suggest a chat with the CAB or a solicitor.
Good luck!
kevinday said:
I am under the impression that if it was an authorised dealer offering the car for sale then the description must be accurate. If it is not then the buyer may have a case under the tort of misrepresentation. In this circumstance the dealer should have known it had been accident-damaged and repaired therefore the description should include this information. To fail to mention it is misrepresentation.
If it was a private party selling the vehicle then they could possibly get away with saying they did not know about it. I recommend a chat to the seller with the aim of them refunding the money and taking the car back (presuming it was a dealer here). If they do not accomodate this then I would suggest a chat with the CAB or a solicitor.
Good luck!
The car was shipped up from Kent (Maidstone number plate) then repaired at the dealer it was bought from. (They have got a large repair place as part of the dealership). The dealer must have been fully aware of the situation and nothing was mentioned at the sale.
kevinday said:
If it was a private party selling the vehicle then they could possibly get away with saying they did not know about it.
Most likely they will - the average 'person' wouldn't spot a good quality repair.
The first I knew about my 2002 Saab having any accident damage was after a year of ownership when I was hawking it round the dealerships to get a feel for what I could get in part ex. It turns out it had a small repair to the rear wing and rear door. Probably a parking scrape.
I eventually sold the car privately, and when asked, 'Has it been in an accident' I stated "Not while I have been in possession of the vehicle, and the CARFAX report (US equivalent of HPI) states that the car was never in an accident previous to this time."
Was I wrong to do this?
As far as the repaired damage is concerned, you probably wont have a leg to stand on, especially if it was light damage rather than major. The main thrust of any attack is going to be on how the warranty has been affected, eg 1 years warranty on the paint/bodywork rather than the assumed balance of the manufacturers warranty. New cars get painted and you can argue the toss wether it is acceptable or not, but used cars are pefectly entitled to have been painted, cos they aint new.
Dont forget, dealers lie to get a deal. When looking for my current VW Golf I inspected a car at a VAG dealer. It was part of the VAG approved used scheme. When questioning the salesman about accident damage he told me categorically that it had not been in an accident and that they werent allowed to sell cars with accident repair through the approved VAG scheme. He was at a loss therefore to account for:
Peeling paint on the drivers sill
car sitting 2 inches higher at the front nearside
boot gap about half an inch on one side when closed
rear o/s passenger door rubbing when closed
paint colour not matching for rear o/s, boot, door,sill
new alloy wheel rear o/s
Clearly this car had been in a major o/s rear crash and been badly repaired. But even when I showed them the evidence the dealer said (and I quote here) . No sir that hasnt been in an accident , just general wear and tear.
I kid you not.
Guess who bought their Golf elsewhere and wont let a VAG dealer service it...
Peeling paint on the drivers sill
car sitting 2 inches higher at the front nearside
boot gap about half an inch on one side when closed
rear o/s passenger door rubbing when closed
paint colour not matching for rear o/s, boot, door,sill
new alloy wheel rear o/s
Clearly this car had been in a major o/s rear crash and been badly repaired. But even when I showed them the evidence the dealer said (and I quote here) . No sir that hasnt been in an accident , just general wear and tear.
I kid you not.
Guess who bought their Golf elsewhere and wont let a VAG dealer service it...
Unless they denied the car had been repaired, I think you're stuffed.
However, I think they're legally obliged to repair any faults on the car that aren't down to simple wear and tear, and faults that you could expect, related to the age of the car.
So I'd be insisting that they fix the paintwork.
www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
I had a problem when I bought my car, it took them 5 weeks to get the spare wheel we agreed on. One day after the phone call to Trading Standards, and one day after I made them aware of this, the wheel magically turned up.
However, I think they're legally obliged to repair any faults on the car that aren't down to simple wear and tear, and faults that you could expect, related to the age of the car.
So I'd be insisting that they fix the paintwork.
www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
I had a problem when I bought my car, it took them 5 weeks to get the spare wheel we agreed on. One day after the phone call to Trading Standards, and one day after I made them aware of this, the wheel magically turned up.
Could be worth a go.
The repair work was authorised by the sales manager at the group and my boss has got a copy of the form. This was very helpfully printed out to demonstrate that the paintwork was out of the 12 month warranty (work was done in December 2004), due to it being a repair.
Incidentally they have agreed to repair the paint as goodwill. I'm not sure if this work will now have 12 months warranty on it or will be covered until 2007.
The repair work was authorised by the sales manager at the group and my boss has got a copy of the form. This was very helpfully printed out to demonstrate that the paintwork was out of the 12 month warranty (work was done in December 2004), due to it being a repair.
Incidentally they have agreed to repair the paint as goodwill. I'm not sure if this work will now have 12 months warranty on it or will be covered until 2007.
Haven't read the whole thread but this sounds very similar to a car a bought a few years ago. In brief:
Bought a Ford Fiesta, 4 years old from a Franchised Dealer. Friend (mechanic) recognised the car (he'd done some work on the previous owners other cars) and informed me he believed it'd been in an accident (damage to front offside and rear). I spoke to previous owner who confirmed this - the work was carried out at the dealer that sold me the car at the expense of the previous owner (ie no insurance).
I got an independant garage to inspect the work and write a report telling me what they believed had been done.
I then approached the dealer and, in no uncertain terms, demanded a full refund. I also gave them my reasons in writing.
I was successful and got as I wished. How? The key here was that the car had been 'misrepresented' by the salesman because I had specifically enquired about any work that had taken place on the car, and they assured me that none had taken place to their knowledge (obviously cr@p).
The other reason I got as I wished was that I walked into the dealer on a busy saturday afternoon, approached the manager's receptionist and asked to speak to the Manager. When told that wouldn't be possible (he was out, apparently), I said quite firmly that I wished to discuss the practice of the dealers of selling severely damaged and badly repaired vehicles to the unsuspecting public! I was ushered in quite quickly!
So you have two possible avenues in this situation - if the vehicle was misrepresented, you have the weight of the Sale of Goods Act behind you. If (as I suspect) it was not, then know your stuff, speak loudly and confidently, and cross your fingers! If you choose the latter, it helps if the vendor was a large dealership with a reputation to protect... the outcome with an Afur Daley type could be quite different!
Bought a Ford Fiesta, 4 years old from a Franchised Dealer. Friend (mechanic) recognised the car (he'd done some work on the previous owners other cars) and informed me he believed it'd been in an accident (damage to front offside and rear). I spoke to previous owner who confirmed this - the work was carried out at the dealer that sold me the car at the expense of the previous owner (ie no insurance).
I got an independant garage to inspect the work and write a report telling me what they believed had been done.
I then approached the dealer and, in no uncertain terms, demanded a full refund. I also gave them my reasons in writing.
I was successful and got as I wished. How? The key here was that the car had been 'misrepresented' by the salesman because I had specifically enquired about any work that had taken place on the car, and they assured me that none had taken place to their knowledge (obviously cr@p).
The other reason I got as I wished was that I walked into the dealer on a busy saturday afternoon, approached the manager's receptionist and asked to speak to the Manager. When told that wouldn't be possible (he was out, apparently), I said quite firmly that I wished to discuss the practice of the dealers of selling severely damaged and badly repaired vehicles to the unsuspecting public! I was ushered in quite quickly!
So you have two possible avenues in this situation - if the vehicle was misrepresented, you have the weight of the Sale of Goods Act behind you. If (as I suspect) it was not, then know your stuff, speak loudly and confidently, and cross your fingers! If you choose the latter, it helps if the vendor was a large dealership with a reputation to protect... the outcome with an Afur Daley type could be quite different!
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