Different Audi Quattros??
Discussion
Can any of you guys help. I'm looking into potentially getting myself a Quattro, but am baffled by all the different codes I've seen refering to the engine types. Can anyone explain what the WR, UR, MB and RR prefixes all stand for? I know they did 10 valve and 20 valve engines, but are the 20Vs worth the extra money? Are there any to be avoided or particularly sought after? My budget's ideally about £6k, but it could be quite flexible (to nearer £8k) if something came along that was a cut above the rest.
Thanks,
Will.
Thanks,
Will.
For £6k you will not be able to get a 20v Turbo,these start at around £12k ish with miles on them up to £20k odd.
I looked to buy one last year,but was put off by a patchy service history & an exhaust that was £1350!! to replace.20v rare and even more expensive to maintain than 10v which is not exactly blessed with cheap service costs anyhow.
there is a lot to go wrong with these so service history is essential,I would tend to buy a car you know or go to a specialist like AM who may give a wrranty.
I looked to buy one last year,but was put off by a patchy service history & an exhaust that was £1350!! to replace.20v rare and even more expensive to maintain than 10v which is not exactly blessed with cheap service costs anyhow.
there is a lot to go wrong with these so service history is essential,I would tend to buy a car you know or go to a specialist like AM who may give a wrranty.
Ah Ha!
At last - a question I can answer.
ur-quattro
is the original, flared wheelarch turbcharged coupe, built 1980-91. ur comes from the german prefix ur- pronounced oo-er(ish), not U-R.
WR, MB, and RR are engine codes andare used to denote the main evolutions in the ur-quattro. Roughly speaking, WRs come in three types.
1 The first type made up to 83, with 6" wheels, rear anti roll bar and analogue dash board. Some had cable operated diffs. Oil cooled turbo chgarger.
2 Second type, with green digital dash and 8" wheels.
3 Third type, as above with sloping front, smoked rear lights and colour coded rear spoiler.
MB is visually identical to the above but has better trim, a bigger engine capacity, a smaller water-cooled turbocharger (less lag) more advanced engine management and a torsen differential. It also has hydraulic tappets, and the engine if looked after will last for ever.
RR is visually identical to the above but has slightly lowered suspension and the 20 valve engine. Is significantly faster and has massive low-down torque. Looked after, this engine is also good for an easy 200,000 miles and more.
If you join the quattro Owners Club you'll see examples of all the above in your budget range. Buy PRIVATELY, don't automatically go to a so-called specialist because you might be ripped off. DO PLEASE get buyers advice from the club - they are sophisticated cars now getting old.
Having said all that they are fantastic cars - get a good one and be amazed.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 10:13
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 11:30
At last - a question I can answer.
ur-quattro
is the original, flared wheelarch turbcharged coupe, built 1980-91. ur comes from the german prefix ur- pronounced oo-er(ish), not U-R.
WR, MB, and RR are engine codes andare used to denote the main evolutions in the ur-quattro. Roughly speaking, WRs come in three types.
1 The first type made up to 83, with 6" wheels, rear anti roll bar and analogue dash board. Some had cable operated diffs. Oil cooled turbo chgarger.
2 Second type, with green digital dash and 8" wheels.
3 Third type, as above with sloping front, smoked rear lights and colour coded rear spoiler.
MB is visually identical to the above but has better trim, a bigger engine capacity, a smaller water-cooled turbocharger (less lag) more advanced engine management and a torsen differential. It also has hydraulic tappets, and the engine if looked after will last for ever.
RR is visually identical to the above but has slightly lowered suspension and the 20 valve engine. Is significantly faster and has massive low-down torque. Looked after, this engine is also good for an easy 200,000 miles and more.
If you join the quattro Owners Club you'll see examples of all the above in your budget range. Buy PRIVATELY, don't automatically go to a so-called specialist because you might be ripped off. DO PLEASE get buyers advice from the club - they are sophisticated cars now getting old.
Having said all that they are fantastic cars - get a good one and be amazed.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 10:13
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 11:30
From what I remember the MB and RR bits are the designations for the engines. They refer to the changes that went from 10v to 20v and changes to the injection system - the older ones being the mechanical versions (remember those?). For 8K you can get a cracking 10v. As previously mentioned a good 20v will be over £10K and a really good one from a known dealer (AM is the best from what I hear) is going to be £15K at the least.
Driven a 10v and a 20v and an S2 (which is basically a 20v in a different body). The S2 is probably the most cultured and the 20v is the fastest. However the 10v is still a hoot but does suffer from good old turbo lag. Its a hoot if you are into that type of thing, but for some its hard to work with..... I love it - wait, wait, wait, booooosssstt.....
They sound great and look very 80's but still kind a contemporary. Dont be too fearful of the costs though. Almost all parts are still available and there are a few indies that can source things cheaper. Is never going to be cheap to run, but fears of £1300 for an exhaust shouldnt put you off - buy Audi Driver magazine and check out the prices from there - repro stuff dont cost that much....
Oh, and one thing to look out for - CATs - if you do get one with a cat, get it tested first - they DO have to come from Audi and cost a fortune.
Cheers,
Paul
Driven a 10v and a 20v and an S2 (which is basically a 20v in a different body). The S2 is probably the most cultured and the 20v is the fastest. However the 10v is still a hoot but does suffer from good old turbo lag. Its a hoot if you are into that type of thing, but for some its hard to work with..... I love it - wait, wait, wait, booooosssstt.....
They sound great and look very 80's but still kind a contemporary. Dont be too fearful of the costs though. Almost all parts are still available and there are a few indies that can source things cheaper. Is never going to be cheap to run, but fears of £1300 for an exhaust shouldnt put you off - buy Audi Driver magazine and check out the prices from there - repro stuff dont cost that much....
Oh, and one thing to look out for - CATs - if you do get one with a cat, get it tested first - they DO have to come from Audi and cost a fortune.
Cheers,
Paul
Just seen Clubsports post, and his info is a little out of date. 20 valve values have slumped a bit recently. You can get them with 100k on the clock for well under £10K. It is true that parts are expensive, but then they hardly ever go wrong. An original exhaust is a lot of dosh, but the Milltek stainless system sounds better and comes in a t £300 or so. I'm looking at the following on my car:new rad, new turbo, new brake accumulator and a bunch of other little things to bring it back up to top-grade mechanically, and I dont expect to pay much more than two grand for the lot, fitted.
CATs (unless the car was registered after 93, which is highly unlikely) can be discarded for an instant 20bhp power gain.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 10:08
CATs (unless the car was registered after 93, which is highly unlikely) can be discarded for an instant 20bhp power gain.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 10:08
I suppose everyone sells a lemon occasionally. A friend of mine used to work for AM cars and still has a very high opinion of them.
The stories that customers wouldnt want to hear were few and far between. They may tend to be pricey, however Ive heard nothing but good things about them.
The stories that customers wouldnt want to hear were few and far between. They may tend to be pricey, however Ive heard nothing but good things about them.
I have a high opinion of their workshop. They do sell straight cars, but you do pay for the privilage. I got no warranty.
try www.quattroownersclub.com
or
www.isham-research.com/quattro
try www.quattroownersclub.com
or
www.isham-research.com/quattro
As mentioned above, MB, WR etc are the different engine codes.
Although these do have different injection systems, the actual internals are a wee bit different too.
I should know.
MB codes have 81.0mm bores and 86.4mm strokes.
WR have 79.5 and 86.4mm strokes.
Wr ran from1980-88 then replaced with MB still in sohc form.
Different cr's also, 7.0:1 and 8.6:1 respectively, although power remained at 200bhp.
I used to play a lot with these babies and built a one off special, using the short stroke 79mm engine mated to the injected head, was a little beauty too.
Also its not possible to swap say the WR pistons and rods to the MB or vise-versa as the big end journals are bigger on the MB crank, and the rods are longer too, as if that wasnt enough, the wrist pins on the pistons are slimmer on the MB.
Although these do have different injection systems, the actual internals are a wee bit different too.
I should know.
MB codes have 81.0mm bores and 86.4mm strokes.
WR have 79.5 and 86.4mm strokes.
Wr ran from1980-88 then replaced with MB still in sohc form.
Different cr's also, 7.0:1 and 8.6:1 respectively, although power remained at 200bhp.
I used to play a lot with these babies and built a one off special, using the short stroke 79mm engine mated to the injected head, was a little beauty too.
Also its not possible to swap say the WR pistons and rods to the MB or vise-versa as the big end journals are bigger on the MB crank, and the rods are longer too, as if that wasnt enough, the wrist pins on the pistons are slimmer on the MB.
The 20v quattro should sound the same, or near as dammit.
The main difference besides the ones already described are the cylinder head, its got 20 valves not the 10 of the WR.
Makes more power and has potential for loads more.
Similar power plant fitted to short sport quattro(2133cc) 20v.
This turns out 306bhp at 6700rpm.0-60 in 4.9.
The rally version did the 0-60 sprint in 2.6!!!
Take the cats off if you want that 5 cylinder growl.
The main difference besides the ones already described are the cylinder head, its got 20 valves not the 10 of the WR.
Makes more power and has potential for loads more.
Similar power plant fitted to short sport quattro(2133cc) 20v.
This turns out 306bhp at 6700rpm.0-60 in 4.9.
The rally version did the 0-60 sprint in 2.6!!!
Take the cats off if you want that 5 cylinder growl.
deltaf said: The 20v quattro should sound the same, or near as dammit.
The main difference besides the ones already described are the cylinder head, its got 20 valves not the 10 of the WR.
Makes more power and has potential for loads more.
Similar power plant fitted to short sport quattro(2133cc) 20v.
This turns out 306bhp at 6700rpm.0-60 in 4.9.
The rally version did the 0-60 sprint in 2.6!!!
Take the cats off if you want that 5 cylinder growl.
It certainly growls, when you put your foot down. But it doesn't have that 10 valve throb. I've never had the cats in mine so I wouldn't know what it sounded like with them in. From talking to various bods, whipping out the centre box can restore the volume a bit. I think the throb comes from the way the pulses split through the manifold on the WR and MB.
I'm tossing up whether or not to start to up the power on mine. But I think I'll look at uprating the brakes first.
Thanks guys.
The 20V do seem considerably more expensive. Are they worth the extra money for something I'm actually going to use? I'm clearer on that the differences are, but what do you guys own and what should I be going for within the £6k - £8k price bracket?
Also, I seem to have got a cracking insurance quote of £1200. I'm 24, clean licence, no no-claims, but been driving 7 years. I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, but how come a GP20 car works out so cheap??
Cheers,
Will
>> Edited by willdew on Thursday 12th December 12:09
The 20V do seem considerably more expensive. Are they worth the extra money for something I'm actually going to use? I'm clearer on that the differences are, but what do you guys own and what should I be going for within the £6k - £8k price bracket?
Also, I seem to have got a cracking insurance quote of £1200. I'm 24, clean licence, no no-claims, but been driving 7 years. I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, but how come a GP20 car works out so cheap??
Cheers,
Will
>> Edited by willdew on Thursday 12th December 12:09
I own a 20valve, which has been variously stolen, crashed, clocked etc but still goes like a dream.
Before that I had a WR. The interior in early WRs is a bit dodgy. Also, on a WR the engine wants rebuilding at about 100,000 miles and losts of them have been bodged. I'm looking to get another WR, but strictly as a project car.
For your budget I would go with an MB or if I could find it an RR. Lots of people will tell you that the RR is the one to go for. Personally, I'm not so sure.
Not sure why you've got such a cheap quote. You sure the company have quoted on the right car? One weakness in quattros is that they're dead easy to steal.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 12:26
Before that I had a WR. The interior in early WRs is a bit dodgy. Also, on a WR the engine wants rebuilding at about 100,000 miles and losts of them have been bodged. I'm looking to get another WR, but strictly as a project car.
For your budget I would go with an MB or if I could find it an RR. Lots of people will tell you that the RR is the one to go for. Personally, I'm not so sure.
Not sure why you've got such a cheap quote. You sure the company have quoted on the right car? One weakness in quattros is that they're dead easy to steal.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 12:26
yertis said:
Not sure why you've got such a cheap quote. You sure the company have quoted on the right car? One weakness in quattros is that they're dead easy to steal.
>> Edited by yertis on Thursday 12th December 12:26
Yep, the quote's for a '85, RHD 2.2 (actually 2.1???) Turbo Audi Quattro, parked on the road in London. It's via www.elephant.co.uk. I got a similar quote on a Corrado VR6 too.
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