Moving to, living and working in California
Discussion
Anyone done it? Anyone recommend it? Or does anyone recommend against it?
I'm considering following up a potential opportunity to transfer out to the Bay Area office in Palo Alto. So far, the only thing I can come up with against the idea is that America is full of Americans.
Any info/experiences/suggestions/comments would be welcome.
I'm considering following up a potential opportunity to transfer out to the Bay Area office in Palo Alto. So far, the only thing I can come up with against the idea is that America is full of Americans.
Any info/experiences/suggestions/comments would be welcome.
Do it, but some basic points off the top of my head:
1. Make sure you have a job lined up before going. You mentioned a company transfer, so this sounds like you have it sorted and any (tech?) company should be able to sort you out with a visa. Be aware though that depending on what sort of visa you apply for (in relation to what level of seniority you are within your company) that your company may have to prove to the US authorities that there is nobody already in America that can do the job. Also if its an H-series visa (although I doubt it in your case), the government inpose a cap on the number that they approve each year, so you may have to wait.
2. Make sure your company pays everything in terms of moving expenses and have an agreement drawn up regarding getting them to pay for your move back (if you want to come back) and that also they'll give you a position of the same or higher level when you return to the UK.
3. The Bay Area of California is expensive (for the States). Having lived there and now in the rural Midwest, it is much more like the UK in terms of culture/outlook/values etc. than the vast majority of the States, so unless you have a pathological hatred of Americans (which I presume you don't as you are considering moving here) you should be fine.
4. Factor in not seeing your family/friends as much. Try and agree to keep your UK holiday entitlement whilst working in the States (most people over here only get 2-3 weeks holiday a year and a similar number of public holidays to home). Also see if you can wangle two-three paid-for Transatlantic flights of your company.
5. Be prepared for a big faff with visas etc., if they tell you it'll take 3 months to get one, bargain on at least 6. The authorities are notoriously capricious and even when 'approved' getting an appointment at the Embassy to tie up the paperwork/have your interview can take a month or so.
6. Get them to agree to sort out your taxes etc. We are going through this at the moment and it's a nightmare compared to UK taxes. We are lucky that all we do is fill in a mere 70 page form and give it to an accountant to file for free.
Don't be afraid of demanding a lot from your company in your deal. Remember that you are doing them a favour moving there as they need your skills/expertise etc. and they are asking you to leave the UK, your family/friends/social life/property etc. behind.
>> Edited by Highway Star on Tuesday 31st January 18:15
1. Make sure you have a job lined up before going. You mentioned a company transfer, so this sounds like you have it sorted and any (tech?) company should be able to sort you out with a visa. Be aware though that depending on what sort of visa you apply for (in relation to what level of seniority you are within your company) that your company may have to prove to the US authorities that there is nobody already in America that can do the job. Also if its an H-series visa (although I doubt it in your case), the government inpose a cap on the number that they approve each year, so you may have to wait.
2. Make sure your company pays everything in terms of moving expenses and have an agreement drawn up regarding getting them to pay for your move back (if you want to come back) and that also they'll give you a position of the same or higher level when you return to the UK.
3. The Bay Area of California is expensive (for the States). Having lived there and now in the rural Midwest, it is much more like the UK in terms of culture/outlook/values etc. than the vast majority of the States, so unless you have a pathological hatred of Americans (which I presume you don't as you are considering moving here) you should be fine.
4. Factor in not seeing your family/friends as much. Try and agree to keep your UK holiday entitlement whilst working in the States (most people over here only get 2-3 weeks holiday a year and a similar number of public holidays to home). Also see if you can wangle two-three paid-for Transatlantic flights of your company.
5. Be prepared for a big faff with visas etc., if they tell you it'll take 3 months to get one, bargain on at least 6. The authorities are notoriously capricious and even when 'approved' getting an appointment at the Embassy to tie up the paperwork/have your interview can take a month or so.
6. Get them to agree to sort out your taxes etc. We are going through this at the moment and it's a nightmare compared to UK taxes. We are lucky that all we do is fill in a mere 70 page form and give it to an accountant to file for free.
Don't be afraid of demanding a lot from your company in your deal. Remember that you are doing them a favour moving there as they need your skills/expertise etc. and they are asking you to leave the UK, your family/friends/social life/property etc. behind.
>> Edited by Highway Star on Tuesday 31st January 18:15
one of my best mates did precisely that, he's been there about 4 or 5 months. heres some extracts from an msn conversation (not all in one go, ive edited out the irrelevant bits) i had with him on this very subject last night. he loves it out there, but hes getting very sick of the way of life out there. he commences . . .
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
Thanks for the comments guys, some great info.
Rather than them asking me, it's more of a case of me putting to them that I'd like to and seeing whether they agree it would be a good idea. Hopefully they will. Assuming they're as cooperative as I think they will be, I think I shall go for it. Got nothing to lose really.
Rather than them asking me, it's more of a case of me putting to them that I'd like to and seeing whether they agree it would be a good idea. Hopefully they will. Assuming they're as cooperative as I think they will be, I think I shall go for it. Got nothing to lose really.
paulhol said:
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
I know where he is coming from, but it's nice to see he is also stereotyping the stereotypes
. To the OP - look at the picture in my profile. That's got to be better than driving to work in the rain around the Oxford bypass hasn't it?
Edit to say - oh and another positive is being able to visit all those other places you've wanted to at leisure on weekend breaks rather than spending thousands on a 2 week trans-Atlantic trip and rushing around like a blue-arsed fly. From where you would be, you'd be eminently able to do weekend trips to get all the way up and down the West Coast, Mexico, Nevada, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon and all the amazing National Parks in Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc. relatively easily and cheaply with internal flights. We try and go somewhere at least once a month - you might as well make the most of it whilst you can
Edited a second time to add - plus if unlike me, you are single then a nice British accent is still special enough to go down a treat with the ladies. Until they ask whether you are from Australia or South Africa
>> Edited by Highway Star on Tuesday 31st January 20:14
>> Edited by Highway Star on Tuesday 31st January 20:19
I've done it - and come back after four very good years.
The single major downside is the cost of real estate in Palo Alto and anywhere you might reasonably commute from. Reckon a million bucks for a 3-bed plywood bungalow ("rancher" on a tiny plot of earthquake-prone land. Renting anywhere you find acceptable might easily take four grand a month out of you salary, and you'll then be subsidizing the mortgages of folks that have bought.
On the other hand, any property you buy will almost certainly continue to rise in value until the next quake.
If you can deal with that - go for it
The single major downside is the cost of real estate in Palo Alto and anywhere you might reasonably commute from. Reckon a million bucks for a 3-bed plywood bungalow ("rancher" on a tiny plot of earthquake-prone land. Renting anywhere you find acceptable might easily take four grand a month out of you salary, and you'll then be subsidizing the mortgages of folks that have bought.
On the other hand, any property you buy will almost certainly continue to rise in value until the next quake.
If you can deal with that - go for it
My brother did it, married an American and now has three Californian sons. He does live the dream 
As an example, the weather forecast goes something like this... "And the weather today, it doesn't get better than this" That's it, that really is the weather forecast. Hey, if you don't like it you can always come back. Better to regret the things in life you did than the things you never did.
Only one downside I've seen, blasting along a freeway in a convertible and suddenly Neil Diamond makes sense. Still, you can't have everything
As an example, the weather forecast goes something like this... "And the weather today, it doesn't get better than this" That's it, that really is the weather forecast. Hey, if you don't like it you can always come back. Better to regret the things in life you did than the things you never did.
Only one downside I've seen, blasting along a freeway in a convertible and suddenly Neil Diamond makes sense. Still, you can't have everything
paulhol said:
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
Why would he live in such a horrible place then? Oh, his job is there? How can his job be in such a "stupid" place instead of being based where the "intelligent" people live? Perhaps you should get home before you become too much like us
jimbeaux said:
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
Why would he live in such a horrible place then? Oh, his job is there? How can his job be in such a "stupid" place instead of being based where the "intelligent" people live? Perhaps you should get home before you become too much like us
Strange to hear someone who lives there hating it so much. I do sort of know where he's coming from regarding the nightclubs thing (in LA at least). And some of the folk there aren't hugely clued up about the UK and other European countries, but so what, it makes interesting conversation and at the very least they are usually more than happy to listen and take in the knowledge.
IMO, most people that I've heard hate on the US, are those who secretly harbour a desire to be there, but can't. Only a very small percentage actually have valid points, and they don't usually hate, they just don't like a certain element, which is fair enough.
I'm just waiting to get acceptance on my visa and plan to open a business there to see how it goes for a year late in 2006. I can't wait, and will be out to look at some locations in April. I don't think anyone can deny that there is a good level of lifestyle in the large Californian cities, and the UK doesn't come close. Especially now after all the changes over the last 8 years or so.
To the thread starter, I'd say do it, because you can always come back if it isn't what you want. Not going, you'd never know.
jimbeaux said:
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
Why would he live in such a horrible place then? Oh, his job is there? How can his job be in such a "stupid" place instead of being based where the "intelligent" people live? Perhaps you should get home before you become too much like us
hes there because he was offered a chance to live on the other side of the world. he has made good friends there and likes many aspects of it, in particular the travelling available to him. those are his opinions (and some that i personally have seen reflected in others and myself in some cases) - dont shoot the messenger
paulhol said:
america is makin me dumb, seriously. I can't think anymore like I used to, the TV makes you braindead here constant adverts like every 10-15 minutes, all stupid american shit that fries your brain. it amazes me how dumb they are and they think cos english people don't go round acting dumb like them that english people don't know how to have a good time. people here don't know a real nightclub, they don't travel anywhere, everything they know about other countries and cultures is from stereotypes and tv. they are all like '' so do english people drink a lot of tea'' and they think all british people have bad teeth cos of austin powers
Why would he live in such a horrible place then? Oh, his job is there? How can his job be in such a "stupid" place instead of being based where the "intelligent" people live? Perhaps you should get home before you become too much like us
hes there because he was offered a chance to live on the other side of the world. he has made good friends there and likes many aspects of it, in particular the travelling available to him. those are his opinions (and some that i personally have seen reflected in others and myself in some cases) - dont shoot the messenger
For you and Ninja, I understand. We jokingly refer to California as the "People's Republic of Cali". To be fair though, every state has its "ups & downs". Think like this: Travelling across the states is akin to travelling across Europe. You will experience terrain and cultures so diverse that you will feel as if you visited different countries. The only difference would be that you didn't need a passport to cross state lines. Simple analogy really. Remember, going to France for lunch makes you an international traveller; us driving 3,000 miles in a car makes us "insular domestics"
. If you find something you dislike(and you will), keep looking....you will find something you like!jimbeaux said:
For you and Ninja, I understand. We jokingly refer to California as the "People's Republic of Cali". To be fair though, every state has its "ups & downs". Think like this: Travelling across the states is akin to travelling across Europe. You will experience terrain and cultures so diverse that you will feel as if you visited different countries. The only difference would be that you didn't need a passport to cross state lines. Simple analogy really. Remember, going to France for lunch makes you an international traveller; us driving 3,000 miles in a car makes us "insular domestics"
Funny thing is though, that we have such a large population of retards here too. The difference is we are used to them and know how to sidestep them
. I'm sure once a person has settled into a new place they'll know who to avoid. Miseducation, or lack of education of another country is hardly a huge deal, IMO. Its not a coincidence that the USA has such a strong economy, they must have *someone* there with a brain (and I don't think its just Greenspan on his own
). And I agree totally on the diversity of the country, its absolutely huge and realistically, in terms of climate, population and economies, it is several countries in one. And great for it too.
I have done exactly what you proposed to do!
Moved to Palo Alto from near London nearly two years ago.
Best thing I ever did.
Its tough for the first couple of months whilst you find you find your feet and start to meet people but you'll soon be loving the place. I've travelled and worked a lot across the US and I can safely say that its one of the most beautiful areas I've been too and that the people are amongst the nicest.
Summer is endless, you can count on relentless sun and blue skys from April though till October. You have San Francisco on your doorstep (bout a 25 min car journey), Santa Cruz (30 mins), Lake Tahoe for gambling and skiing only 4 hours away, and if you want a bit of a longer drive you can be in Vegas in 8 hours (or fly there in 45mins).
Palo Alto is a great town, lots of places to eat and drink, its quite lively due to being on the doorstep of Stanford University. Bars are open till 2AM and the beers cheap and cold (if not slightly weak!)
"Soccer" (I still hate that) is probably one of the top sports in California due to the hispanic connections - I joined a team over here and met loads of good friends. You get more premiership games on TV than you do in the UK so easy to keep up with the important things.
The way of life is excellent too, everyones always out doing something (I guess the weather lends itself to that). People running, cycling, walking, playing footy, baseball etc
Only downside really is the working environment, for some reason the Americans work incredibly hard without actually acheiving anything. It frustrates the hell out of me as I get dragged into the 6 hours of meetings a day they feel they need to do to feel like they are working hard!
You will miss things about the UK, friends and familly etc, a nice country pub, the english sense of humour etc, and your UK mates will rip the piss out of you the first time you call your mobile a "cell phone".... but its all good really.
Unfortunatly my 2 year assignment is up in April so I have to come home... ah well, at least I can buy another Cerbera !
Do it or regret it for ever, these chances don't come along twice.!
Moved to Palo Alto from near London nearly two years ago.
Best thing I ever did.
Its tough for the first couple of months whilst you find you find your feet and start to meet people but you'll soon be loving the place. I've travelled and worked a lot across the US and I can safely say that its one of the most beautiful areas I've been too and that the people are amongst the nicest.
Summer is endless, you can count on relentless sun and blue skys from April though till October. You have San Francisco on your doorstep (bout a 25 min car journey), Santa Cruz (30 mins), Lake Tahoe for gambling and skiing only 4 hours away, and if you want a bit of a longer drive you can be in Vegas in 8 hours (or fly there in 45mins).
Palo Alto is a great town, lots of places to eat and drink, its quite lively due to being on the doorstep of Stanford University. Bars are open till 2AM and the beers cheap and cold (if not slightly weak!)
"Soccer" (I still hate that) is probably one of the top sports in California due to the hispanic connections - I joined a team over here and met loads of good friends. You get more premiership games on TV than you do in the UK so easy to keep up with the important things.
The way of life is excellent too, everyones always out doing something (I guess the weather lends itself to that). People running, cycling, walking, playing footy, baseball etc
Only downside really is the working environment, for some reason the Americans work incredibly hard without actually acheiving anything. It frustrates the hell out of me as I get dragged into the 6 hours of meetings a day they feel they need to do to feel like they are working hard!
You will miss things about the UK, friends and familly etc, a nice country pub, the english sense of humour etc, and your UK mates will rip the piss out of you the first time you call your mobile a "cell phone".... but its all good really.
Unfortunatly my 2 year assignment is up in April so I have to come home... ah well, at least I can buy another Cerbera !
Do it or regret it for ever, these chances don't come along twice.!
ninja_eli said:
Its not a coincidence that the USA has such a strong economy, they must have *someone* there with a brain (and I don't think its just Greenspan on his own
Hell, step out there....we have at least two, one for each coast. We don't need a brain for the center of the country. The coastal elites refer to this section as "flyover" country:
[
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Wednesday 1st February 02:55
jimbeaux said:
Hell, step out there....we have at least two, one for each coast. We don't need a brain for the center of the country.
We don't have one at all, so can we borrow one of yours, please?
jimbeaux said:
The coastal elites refer to this section as "flyover" country:
lol, too funny. I'd love to visit Houston and Dallas though. And, my girlfriend loves Memphis cause of Elvis, so we're not allowed to say anything bad about there...
woohoo is that the time already! I'm off to bed. Good night
ninja_eli said:
Hell, step out there....we have at least two, one for each coast. We don't need a brain for the center of the country.
We don't have one at all, so can we borrow one of yours, please?
jimbeaux said:
The coastal elites refer to this section as "flyover" country:
lol, too funny. I'd love to visit Houston and Dallas though. And, my girlfriend loves Memphis cause of Elvis, so we're not allowed to say anything bad about there...
woohoo is that the time already! I'm off to bed. Good night
Something you Brits probably miss out on is Tennessee, particularly Galtlinburg. I sense you would like that....not so far from Elvis
[quote=jimbeaux
Something you Brits probably miss out on is Tennessee, particularly Galtlinburg. I sense you would like that....not so far from Elvis[/quote]
Spent a week in Nashville in 2004 and loved every minute of it - although I'm not sure I'd call my hotel the Gaylord (opryland)!!
To the original poster, I'm amazed you're still here, I've been trying to get to the US to live and work for 10 years now with no success - I'd bite my own arm off to get there!
Something you Brits probably miss out on is Tennessee, particularly Galtlinburg. I sense you would like that....not so far from Elvis
[/quote] Spent a week in Nashville in 2004 and loved every minute of it - although I'm not sure I'd call my hotel the Gaylord (opryland)!!
To the original poster, I'm amazed you're still here, I've been trying to get to the US to live and work for 10 years now with no success - I'd bite my own arm off to get there!
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