The old light/aperture/noise conundrum
Discussion
Yes, the laws of physics strike again 
I recce'd a church last night for a forthcoming wedding and it's dim to say the least. Can't use flash inside, so I need glass and lots of it.
I bought a s/h Nikkor 35mm f1.4 AI (manual focus) but I'm concerned to use it as the D70 viewfinder isn't much good for manual focus and I won't get any time to faff about. My 50mm f1.8 AF is good but too long for some shots.
The Nikkor 17-55 f2.8 is silly money, and the Sigma 20-40 f2.8 - well, I tried two and both had severe back focus problems.
So - do I try and buy a Sigma 20-40 that actually works, or can anyone think of another option?
Plus, can anyone say what the NR feature is like on the D70? If it works well I could go to ISO800 which will help.
I recce'd a church last night for a forthcoming wedding and it's dim to say the least. Can't use flash inside, so I need glass and lots of it.
I bought a s/h Nikkor 35mm f1.4 AI (manual focus) but I'm concerned to use it as the D70 viewfinder isn't much good for manual focus and I won't get any time to faff about. My 50mm f1.8 AF is good but too long for some shots.
The Nikkor 17-55 f2.8 is silly money, and the Sigma 20-40 f2.8 - well, I tried two and both had severe back focus problems.
So - do I try and buy a Sigma 20-40 that actually works, or can anyone think of another option?
Plus, can anyone say what the NR feature is like on the D70? If it works well I could go to ISO800 which will help.
when it comes to dark churches there is no point thinking "ooooooh i can't use too high an ISO or there will be noise", you have to use whatever will get you the photo. i'm lucky that my camera gets very good results at 1600, and with a 1.4 lens I can usually get a decent enough shutter speed. But even if you're using a nikon that only goes to 800 then imho you will have to use that. with regards to lenses i'd stick with your 50mm, and don't you have a wide angle already that you can use? don't forget that at wide angles youy can usually get away with really low shutter speeds, especially if you take plenty of pics.
I thought that about manual focus on the D70. My AE1 manual camera has a handy circle that goes super bluury at anything but perfect subject focus. Its a doddle to fix. Is there no eye glass available like that? I know you can buy different eye glasses with grids on etc, maybe there is one with a focus circle.
On the low light thing.
Last wedding I did, I had similar problem. I actually solved it by shooting inside shots using my Canon AE1 with its 50mm f1.2 with iso 200 film wiich came out spot on.
However, you could try asking the couple it they would like the shots inside the church to be in B/W. Hopefully you persuade them to agree and in that instance, I think the great many folks think that "grain" on a B/W shot, actually adds character and class to the shot.
That way, they get shots that they think look cool, and you get to shoot at ISO 1600 without a care in the world!
Was that Idea rubbish?
Greg
On the low light thing.
Last wedding I did, I had similar problem. I actually solved it by shooting inside shots using my Canon AE1 with its 50mm f1.2 with iso 200 film wiich came out spot on.
However, you could try asking the couple it they would like the shots inside the church to be in B/W. Hopefully you persuade them to agree and in that instance, I think the great many folks think that "grain" on a B/W shot, actually adds character and class to the shot.
That way, they get shots that they think look cool, and you get to shoot at ISO 1600 without a care in the world!
Was that Idea rubbish?
Greg
Thanks for the replies guys.
It will do ISO 1600, but it's so noisy I wouldn't want to charge money for the results. 50mm of course acts like 75mm so not much use for groups in small-ish spaces, and the 18-70mm is f3.5-4.5. As you say, when you exhaust all other avenues, you have to crank the ISO and hope. I shall certainly be using a tripod so at least any movement is them and not me!
The D70 was never aimed at that level; it's really designed for AF use.
Nice idea but I can't do that - client wants to do the processing himself. I sent him a test NEF file which he opened with satisfactorily with Gimp. I don't like the idea of sending out 'as shot' files but that's what he wants. That buggers Ed's suggestion of Noise Ninja, although I can mention it to the client I suppose. It would be a good idea to write to him and say that due to the low ambient light some noise will be inevitable and that's how to deal with it. He seems to like playing about with stuff like that.
Thanks Chris, worth considering subject to logistics. Where are you?
dcw@pr said:
when it comes to dark churches there is no point thinking "ooooooh i can't use too high an ISO or there will be noise", you have to use whatever will get you the photo. i'm lucky that my camera gets very good results at 1600, and with a 1.4 lens I can usually get a decent enough shutter speed. But even if you're using a nikon that only goes to 800 then imho you will have to use that. with regards to lenses i'd stick with your 50mm, and don't you have a wide angle already that you can use? don't forget that at wide angles youy can usually get away with really low shutter speeds, especially if you take plenty of pics.
It will do ISO 1600, but it's so noisy I wouldn't want to charge money for the results. 50mm of course acts like 75mm so not much use for groups in small-ish spaces, and the 18-70mm is f3.5-4.5. As you say, when you exhaust all other avenues, you have to crank the ISO and hope. I shall certainly be using a tripod so at least any movement is them and not me!
Mr Noble said:
I thought that about manual focus on the D70. My AE1 manual camera has a handy circle that goes super bluury at anything but perfect subject focus. Its a doddle to fix. Is there no eye glass available like that? I know you can buy different eye glasses with grids on etc, maybe there is one with a focus circle.
The D70 was never aimed at that level; it's really designed for AF use.
Mr Noble said:
However, you could try asking the couple it they would like the shots inside the church to be in B/W. Hopefully you persuade them to agree and in that instance, I think the great many folks think that "grain" on a B/W shot, actually adds character and class to the shot.
Nice idea but I can't do that - client wants to do the processing himself. I sent him a test NEF file which he opened with satisfactorily with Gimp. I don't like the idea of sending out 'as shot' files but that's what he wants. That buggers Ed's suggestion of Noise Ninja, although I can mention it to the client I suppose. It would be a good idea to write to him and say that due to the low ambient light some noise will be inevitable and that's how to deal with it. He seems to like playing about with stuff like that.
CVP said:
If you're stuck, I could lend you either / both of;
1) Nikon 50mm f1.4 AF
2) Nikon 20mm f2.8 AF
I also have an older Sigma 17-35mm f2.8 in Nikon AF fitting but not sure it's sharp enough for commercial use, you're welcome to borrow and test.
Thanks Chris, worth considering subject to logistics. Where are you?
dcw@pr said:
have you considered equipment rental as an option?
Interesting. What's in the Colchester area?
dcw@pr said:
on another point, what group photos are you planning on doing inside the church? imho, i think you should really do all the groups outside, unless your hand is forced by rain.
Yes, all group/formal photos will be outside unless it's raining. However, the bride coming up the aisle, the exchanging of rings, register signing and happy couple going back down the aisle are all necessarily inside.
I'm writing to the guy to warn him that he'll be getting 'as shot' RAW files and that they're unlikely to be perfect straight out of the box.
simpo two said:
Thanks Chris, worth considering subject to logistics. Where are you?
SW London,(3 doors down from a Cerby owning PH'er) but can post to you no probs. From description maybe the 20mm is the one worth trying as you've got f1.4 on the 35mm. The 20mm is really tack sharp.
Chris
simpo two said:
have you considered equipment rental as an option?
Interesting. What's in the Colchester area?dcw@pr said:
on another point, what group photos are you planning on doing inside the church? imho, i think you should really do all the groups outside, unless your hand is forced by rain.
Yes, all group/formal photos will be outside unless it's raining. However, the bride coming up the aisle, the exchanging of rings, register signing and happy couple going back down the aisle are all necessarily inside.
I'm writing to the guy to warn him that he'll be getting 'as shot' RAW files and that they're unlikely to be perfect straight out of the box.
cant say that i am familar with camera shopsn in colchester. probably best ringing one of them and asking.
i would suggest that all those photos you mention are possible with a 50/75mm lens
Hmm.
Dark church and Nikon D70 eh?
Something like this might tempt the gentleman client?
http://thedailyexposure.blogspot.com/2006/02/st-cuth
Dark church and Nikon D70 eh?
Something like this might tempt the gentleman client?
http://thedailyexposure.blogspot.com/2006/02/st-cuth
LongQ said:
Dark church and Nikon D70 eh? Something like this might tempt the gentleman client?
Nice atmospheric pic.
However as my client is a rabid Christian, I don't think he'd want his church to look too devilish, like a cover from a Damned CD...
Anyway, it looks like t's either going to be a 35mm prime with AF (£ OK) (unfortunately the Nikon one isn't AF-S) or the Nikkor 17-55 AF-S (£ silly).
Hmm.
simpo two said:
Dark church and Nikon D70 eh? Something like this might tempt the gentleman client?
Nice atmospheric pic.
However as my client is a rabid Christian, I don't think he'd want his church to look too devilish, like a cover from a Damned CD...
Anyway, it looks like t's either going to be a 35mm prime with AF (£ OK) (unfortunately the Nikon one isn't AF-S) or the Nikkor 17-55 AF-S (£ silly).
Hmm.
imho AF-S on short primes is totally unnecessary
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