Discussion
Well it had to happen sooner or later. I got the fear. Had three incidents of varying shityourpantsness since Friday:
1) Friday: Back-end twitching (well, somewhere between 'twitching' and 'going') on a long left-hand bend at about 85mph.
2) Saturday: Turning left at a junction over a nice wet and cold drain cover and using the front brake as a panic reaction. Bike very nearly dropped like a broken helicopter.
3) Sunday: Locking up rear under emergency stop (dull story but necessary) and doing a little more snaking than desired.
I haven't used the bike so far this week. Is it March yet?
1) Friday: Back-end twitching (well, somewhere between 'twitching' and 'going') on a long left-hand bend at about 85mph.
2) Saturday: Turning left at a junction over a nice wet and cold drain cover and using the front brake as a panic reaction. Bike very nearly dropped like a broken helicopter.
3) Sunday: Locking up rear under emergency stop (dull story but necessary) and doing a little more snaking than desired.
I haven't used the bike so far this week. Is it March yet?
When you do get back out (and that should be as soon as possible) take it very gently and concentrate on relaxing and enjoying the ride. It's all to easy to try to "prove to yourself" that you’re OK and go out very tense, thus inviting another incident. Once you do relax and start enjoying the ride you'll find your speed and your confidence will return by them selves! 
Rawwr said:
Well it had to happen sooner or later. I got the fear. Had three incidents of varying shityourpantsness since Friday:
1) Friday: Back-end twitching (well, somewhere between 'twitching' and 'going') on a long left-hand bend at about 85mph.
2) Saturday: Turning left at a junction over a nice wet and cold drain cover and using the front brake as a panic reaction. Bike very nearly dropped like a broken helicopter.
3) Sunday: Locking up rear under emergency stop (dull story but necessary) and doing a little more snaking than desired.
I haven't used the bike so far this week. Is it March yet?
Try to stop riding like a loon in poor weather and you might find these issues dont happen.
Other than that just take it easy, i assume your tyres are ok!!!
Rawwr said:
Well it had to happen sooner or later. I got the fear. Had three incidents of varying shityourpantsness since Friday:
1) Friday: Back-end twitching (well, somewhere between 'twitching' and 'going') on a long left-hand bend at about 85mph.
2) Saturday: Turning left at a junction over a nice wet and cold drain cover and using the front brake as a panic reaction. Bike very nearly dropped like a broken helicopter.
3) Sunday: Locking up rear under emergency stop (dull story but necessary) and doing a little more snaking than desired.
I haven't used the bike so far this week. Is it March yet?
1) Its horrible the first time it happens - keep your speed down in this weather!
2) Poor observation - different rules for this time of year...
3) irrelevant - if you're emergency braking the rear is doing nothing anyway so the slightest pressure will make it lock (if it's not in the air already). I'd worry more about WHY you had to do an emergency stop.
Like the others said though, get back out there.
We all go through this but you need to get back out there and...
1) Slow down a bit at first and don't grip the bike tightly with your arms... loosen up. Your bike will move around a bit at this time of year, just let it get on with it.
2) Don't drive over them. You never know when you may need to brake and you don't want to be on one when you do.
3) Never use the back brake if your intention is to slow rapidly or stop and never pull the clutch in until you are just about to stop.
Mark
1) Slow down a bit at first and don't grip the bike tightly with your arms... loosen up. Your bike will move around a bit at this time of year, just let it get on with it.
2) Don't drive over them. You never know when you may need to brake and you don't want to be on one when you do.
3) Never use the back brake if your intention is to slow rapidly or stop and never pull the clutch in until you are just about to stop.
Mark
Carrera2 said:
1) Its horrible the first time it happens - keep your speed down in this weather!
2) Poor observation - different rules for this time of year...
3) irrelevant - if you're emergency braking the rear is doing nothing anyway so the slightest pressure will make it lock (if it's not in the air already). I'd worry more about WHY you had to do an emergency stop.
Like the others said though, get back out there.
1) Ok, fair play. Cold tyres, damp road, entirely indefensible on my part.
2) Not a case of poor observation. It's a huge cover that occupies 90% of the lane and completely unavoidable. I went over it as slowly as possible.
3) Car waiting at a side road. Had eye contact with the driver and I'm *presuming* her foot slipped off the clutch. My position was far right, slowed and cautious: the only action I could've taken in an emergency was an emergency stop, which I did. But as you say, it doesn't take much to lock the rear.
Rawwr said:
1) Its horrible the first time it happens - keep your speed down in this weather!
2) Poor observation - different rules for this time of year...
3) irrelevant - if you're emergency braking the rear is doing nothing anyway so the slightest pressure will make it lock (if it's not in the air already). I'd worry more about WHY you had to do an emergency stop.
Like the others said though, get back out there.
1) Ok, fair play. Cold tyres, damp road, entirely indefensible on my part.
2) Not a case of poor observation. It's a huge cover that occupies 90% of the lane and completely unavoidable. I went over it as slowly as possible.
3) Car waiting at a side road. Had eye contact with the driver and I'm *presuming* her foot slipped off the clutch. My position was far right, slowed and cautious: the only action I could've taken in an emergency was an emergency stop, which I did. But as you say, it doesn't take much to lock the rear.
I think in a years time you'll look back at these incidents and chuckle to yourself that they worried you.
If the back is flapping around under braking it's not a problem and you'll probably experience this quite often on aggresive downshifts.
But, you've reminded me of the first time the rear stepped out on my bike under power (about 60mph coming off a roundabout, leaned right over) and it scared the bejesus out of me. Largely due to cold tires I think but the good thing was that I corrected it, like you, thruogh reflex.
Take care.
dern said:
We all go through this but you need to get back out there and...
1) Slow down a bit at first and don't grip the bike tightly with your arms... loosen up. Your bike will move around a bit at this time of year, just let it get on with it.
2) Don't drive over them. You never know when you may need to brake and you don't want to be on one when you do.
3) Never use the back brake if your intention is to slow rapidly or stop and never pull the clutch in until you are just about to stop.
Mark
I totally agree with 1) and 2) above but disagree with the braking part of 3).
Firstly, larger/heavier/longer wheelbase bikes will still offer some braking effect from the rear wheel, even with the front at "max". When I used to instruct, I would do a demonstration of braking using rear only, front only then both back and front together. Each run would be done at the same speed (about 20mph) and I would brake from a set point as hard as I could while avoiding lock-up. I would then get a pupil to place a cone where my front wheel came to a stop. Consistently, the front only distance was about half the rear only distance, but the front and rear brakes together distance was almost half the front only distance! Give it a go yourself some time and see if there is also a difference for you.
Secondly, in winter weather, when surface grip is not at it’s best and there is a serious risk of lock-up, I would rather handle a rear lock-up than a front lock-up under heavy braking. As such I’ll not use the fronts as much as I would in summer thus not shifting the weight quite so far forward. This means there is still considerable braking grip to be had from the rear wheel. – Very useful in an “urgent” situation.
Ride safe and enjoy.
black-k1 said:I undertand what you're saying but he has a sports bike as I do and if you brake hard on a sports bike you transfer all of the weight on to the front wheel unless the level of grip is extremely compromised. If grip is that compromised then I've found that applying the back brake results in a lock up even though there is still some weight on the rear wheel. I agree with you that I'd rather deal with a rear lock up than a front but if locking the rear has no effect in terms of retardation of your speed, which it can't be if it's in a locked state, then why do it? All you achieve is knackering your ability to steer and occupying some of your concentration which should be on steering and braking. There isn't enough feedback from the rear brake of any sports bike I've had that enable it to be used in such a way that its braking force outweighs the risks to steering and the amount of concentration it takes. If you can do it on a bigger bike or indeed if you can do it on any bike then go for it but it isn't for me.
Firstly, larger/heavier/longer wheelbase bikes will still offer some braking effect from the rear wheel, even with the front at "max". When I used to instruct, I would do a demonstration of braking using rear only, front only then both back and front together. Each run would be done at the same speed (about 20mph) and I would brake from a set point as hard as I could while avoiding lock-up. I would then get a pupil to place a cone where my front wheel came to a stop. Consistently, the front only distance was about half the rear only distance, but the front and rear brakes together distance was almost half the front only distance! Give it a go yourself some time and see if there is also a difference for you.
Secondly, in winter weather, when surface grip is not at it’s best and there is a serious risk of lock-up, I would rather handle a rear lock-up than a front lock-up under heavy braking. As such I’ll not use the fronts as much as I would in summer thus not shifting the weight quite so far forward. This means there is still considerable braking grip to be had from the rear wheel. – Very useful in an “urgent” situation.
Regards,
Mark
dern said:
... demonstration of braking using rear only, front only then both back and front together. ..... Give it a go yourself some time and see if there is also a difference for you.
I like to use the rear brake all the time so that it becomes a habit. That way, should you suddenly come across a reduced grip situation (common at this time of year) you automatically apply the rear brake rather than just depending on the front.
Give the little brake test described above a try! Even on a sports bike, I think you'll be surprised at the reduction in braking distance.
Regards
David
black-k1 said:Ok. My opinions of the use of the back brake are based on a couple of incidents a few years back so maybe it's time to readdress it. I'll try it on the way home.
I like to use the rear brake all the time so that it becomes a habit. That way, should you suddenly come across a reduced grip situation (common at this time of year) you automatically apply the rear brake rather than just depending on the front.
Give the little brake test described above a try! Even on a sports bike, I think you'll be surprised at the reduction in braking distance.
All the best,
Mark
dern said:I take it back... you're right. Bugger me (metaphorically).
I like to use the rear brake all the time so that it becomes a habit. That way, should you suddenly come across a reduced grip situation (common at this time of year) you automatically apply the rear brake rather than just depending on the front.
Give the little brake test described above a try! Even on a sports bike, I think you'll be surprised at the reduction in braking distance.
I'll keep practicing though as I had a couple of moments... best to let off when changing down gears
Thanks,
Mark
dern said:
I take it back... you're right. Bugger me (metaphorically).
I'll keep practicing though as I had a couple of moments... best to let off when changing down gears
Thanks,
Mark
Well done Mark.
Try "blipping" the throttle on the down shifts. It’ll help stop the rear locking up as the clutch is released. Ride safe and enjoy.
PS I won’t take you up on your offer, even metaphorically!
black-k1 said:It wasn't that that was the problem... I was a bit slow on the down shift and had my foot pretty hard on the back brake... as I pulled the clutch in and removed drive the wheel locked for a moment... aaaarrgghhh, too many things to thing about when it's so bloody cold.
Well done Mark.
Mark
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