Inland Revenue is threatening to take me court - Help!
Discussion
Got in from work this evening to find a letter from the I.R. Debt management office saying that as I hadn't filled in a self assessment tax return for the last 3 years, they had given me a fine and that if I didn't pay it immediately, they would take legal proceedings.
The problem is, I have never received a self assessment form, ever! The letter goes onto say that i have ignored requests for payment. I have never received ANY corespondance from the I.R. in the last ten years!
I will of course be ringing them tomorrow.
Has anyone had a similar experience or can anyone offer advice?
BTW, the fine is in the thousands.
The problem is, I have never received a self assessment form, ever! The letter goes onto say that i have ignored requests for payment. I have never received ANY corespondance from the I.R. in the last ten years!
I will of course be ringing them tomorrow.
Has anyone had a similar experience or can anyone offer advice?
BTW, the fine is in the thousands.
Scary.
A couple of things - talking to them is good, usually these things can be sorted out if there has been a breakdown in communication.
I had a sudden demand for a 6 year old return they said I should have submitted - they wanted it in 7 days and threatened all sorts of fines (it was my first few months of being self employed and I had been assured by IR that due to earning less than the tax threshold I didn't need to complete one).
Other thing - I understand that it is your obligation to submit a return in required rather than theirs to let you know. I may be way off base though, I'm sure EricMc will be along soon...
PS - are there any special extenuating circumstances that require a tax return from you? Extra non-PAYE income? self employed? Are they right that yuo should have filed a return?
A couple of things - talking to them is good, usually these things can be sorted out if there has been a breakdown in communication.
I had a sudden demand for a 6 year old return they said I should have submitted - they wanted it in 7 days and threatened all sorts of fines (it was my first few months of being self employed and I had been assured by IR that due to earning less than the tax threshold I didn't need to complete one).
Other thing - I understand that it is your obligation to submit a return in required rather than theirs to let you know. I may be way off base though, I'm sure EricMc will be along soon...
PS - are there any special extenuating circumstances that require a tax return from you? Extra non-PAYE income? self employed? Are they right that yuo should have filed a return?
I am PAYE for everything apart from savings (which I pay tax on).
I was under the impression that you don't have to fill in a self assessment form if they don't ask you to (i.e. send you a letter and form).
The BBC web site mentioned that 9.5 million self assessment forms are required to be returned this year. There's got to be more that 9.5m tax payers surely?
I was under the impression that you don't have to fill in a self assessment form if they don't ask you to (i.e. send you a letter and form).
The BBC web site mentioned that 9.5 million self assessment forms are required to be returned this year. There's got to be more that 9.5m tax payers surely?
Weird - I think most people with simple finances (PAYE) don't need to complete a return - and if you haven't been asked to then I can't see how you should know. Unless you have anything complicated going on financially I can't see why you would have to - everything is taken at source.
Wait for an expert though; I am only thinking out loud!
Wait for an expert though; I am only thinking out loud!
NiceCupOfTea said:
Scary.
I had a sudden demand for a 6 year old return they said I should have submitted - they wanted it in 7 days and threatened all sorts of fines (it was my first few months of being self employed and I had been assured by IR that due to earning less than the tax threshold I didn't need to complete one).
I am newly self-employed, and despite being FAAAAAR below the threshhold (this tax year I will be lucky to make £1000 (total, not profit!)), but I still have to submit a return. The only exemption I am aware of is for having to pay NI, for which you need to apply for an exemption certificate - does anyone know how long it takes to process these, as I have applied, and have just received a third bill for NI, stating it must be paid within 28 days.
tonto said:
Got in from work this evening to find a letter from the I.R. Debt management office saying that as I hadn't filled in a self assessment tax return for the last 3 years, they had given me a fine and that if I didn't pay it immediately, they would take legal proceedings.
The problem is, I have never received a self assessment form, ever! The letter goes onto say that i have ignored requests for payment. I have never received ANY corespondance from the I.R. in the last ten years!
I will of course be ringing them tomorrow.
Has anyone had a similar experience or can anyone offer advice?
BTW, the fine is in the thousands.
Had a similar experience once. Call them tomorrow, and if there is any doubt I strongly urge you to go see and accountant. They sorted the whole thing out for me - cost a few quid, but a lot less than the fines and gave massive peace of mind.
The Robbinu always try it on first, if you pay without argument they know that they have found either a sucker or someone with more money than sense. Do not be scared, just ring them up and ask what it's all about. usually a simple explanation will suffice and they back off. If they do not back off and you have to prove your position be prepared to find 7 years of receipts and bank statements to show that income matches expenditure.
The first demand of this type I had was for more than I had ever earnt, they are barstewards of the first degree, that's what they are trained to be and be prepared in that one department does not talk to another, their computer system crashes or is read only at the time you want information updated.
Just ask for and do everything in writing, it is slow and painful, but you have a trail.
You should try an IR35 examination and enter the fantasyland of the Robbinu.
The first demand of this type I had was for more than I had ever earnt, they are barstewards of the first degree, that's what they are trained to be and be prepared in that one department does not talk to another, their computer system crashes or is read only at the time you want information updated.
Just ask for and do everything in writing, it is slow and painful, but you have a trail.
You should try an IR35 examination and enter the fantasyland of the Robbinu.
Are you sure it's a "fine"?
Sure it's not an assessment of what they suggest you owe?
That's more likely, and they always overestimate to give you a kickstart.
If you phone them, ask what's the current procedure for appealing against the assessment (there used to be a time limit for an appeal). I'm a bit out of touch now, but they used to issue a form where you just appeal against the assessment, and the grounds on which you are appealing. This can be overestimated and excessive, or nothing due to be paid. If you think you are due to pay something, you need to ask to postpone the amount you believe to be excessive.
Or do they take a harder line these days, now that those vicious swine from Customs have joined them...?
>> Edited by mybrainhurts on Thursday 2nd February 23:23
Sure it's not an assessment of what they suggest you owe?
That's more likely, and they always overestimate to give you a kickstart.
If you phone them, ask what's the current procedure for appealing against the assessment (there used to be a time limit for an appeal). I'm a bit out of touch now, but they used to issue a form where you just appeal against the assessment, and the grounds on which you are appealing. This can be overestimated and excessive, or nothing due to be paid. If you think you are due to pay something, you need to ask to postpone the amount you believe to be excessive.
Or do they take a harder line these days, now that those vicious swine from Customs have joined them...?
>> Edited by mybrainhurts on Thursday 2nd February 23:23
I've always found the Inland Revenue very reasonable to deal with. 
yes really.
I once had quite a "threatening" letter re. an error on my tax return ...... but they were very approachable over the phone and we sorted out the problem very easily.
They can often use rather "stern" correspondence to prompt you to get in contact.
yes really. I once had quite a "threatening" letter re. an error on my tax return ...... but they were very approachable over the phone and we sorted out the problem very easily.
They can often use rather "stern" correspondence to prompt you to get in contact.
I've always found them very helpful on the phone. They have automated shit bomb letter writing systems that threaten to chew your legs off, but once you get hold of one of their staff things get cleared up quite quickly in my experience. Had a good one a few years ago where I wrote them a fairly large cheque to settle an amount they claimed I owed for year X. I knew that they in fact owed me money for year X, but I was going to owe them money for year (X+1) and that was almost due for payment so I had no problem writing the cheque a few weeks early in order to show willing. A few weeks later their computer finally worked out what I really owed for year X and it therefore sent a load of money back to my bank account because I had over-paid for year X. It then had a think about year (X+1) and immediately sent me a threatening letter and a fine. So I got two letters from them on the same day. First one says you overpaid by £XXXX. Second one says you owe us £XXXX plus a fine. Class!
wd* said:
Scary.
I had a sudden demand for a 6 year old return they said I should have submitted - they wanted it in 7 days and threatened all sorts of fines (it was my first few months of being self employed and I had been assured by IR that due to earning less than the tax threshold I didn't need to complete one).
I am newly self-employed, and despite being FAAAAAR below the threshhold (this tax year I will be lucky to make £1000 (total, not profit!)), but I still have to submit a return. The only exemption I am aware of is for having to pay NI, for which you need to apply for an exemption certificate - does anyone know how long it takes to process these, as I have applied, and have just received a third bill for NI, stating it must be paid within 28 days.
Yes, I know that now! However, at the time I asked them (was very new to it all then and of course somehow you are expected to know all this stuff
) and they told me it wouldn't be necessary... Obviously spoke to a muppet. Re: NI, give them a call.
tonto said:
I am PAYE for everything apart from savings (which I pay tax on).
I was under the impression that you don't have to fill in a self assessment form if they don't ask you to (i.e. send you a letter and form).
The BBC web site mentioned that 9.5 million self assessment forms are required to be returned this year. There's got to be more that 9.5m tax payers surely?
How long have you been PAYE,have you ever been self employed?,if yes it would of been up to you to let them know when you went PAYE as they will still think you are SE.
I to have found them to be reasonable to talk to,contrary to pop opinion so i would ring them without delay and talk to them,if you have either never been SE or you have and were all paid up till you went PAYE then you should be in the clear,although remember that your SE will be one year behind(if you were SE)so you might owe them a year.
What ever ,dont leave it as its not worth the worry and DONT be intimidated by them.
There are MANY people on PAYE who MUST complete Self Assessment forms - usually those who have mulriple PAYE jobs or are higher rate tax payers. There are many more who don't but legally should.
The onus to KNOW whether you should be completing an SA return is absolutel7y and completely on YOU, not the Revenue.
In your circumstances, have you changed address at some point in the past few years i.e have the Revenue being sending blank returns to an old out of date address?
It's obvious from reading PH over the past few weeks that there is a HUGE level of ignorance on tax matters in the general community and that FAR too many people should have access to an acountant or maybe get hold of better one than the one they are currently using.
The onus to KNOW whether you should be completing an SA return is absolutel7y and completely on YOU, not the Revenue.
In your circumstances, have you changed address at some point in the past few years i.e have the Revenue being sending blank returns to an old out of date address?
It's obvious from reading PH over the past few weeks that there is a HUGE level of ignorance on tax matters in the general community and that FAR too many people should have access to an acountant or maybe get hold of better one than the one they are currently using.
They are a bunch of c
ts of the highest order. 
Once upon a time I got threatening phone call from them telling me that I hadn't sent a document that I had commited to send to them by such and such a date. Strangely enough I don't trust these baskets so I'd sent it Special Delivery so just quoted the track and trace number and told the tw@t to fk off and talk to their postroom because someone had signed for it. Needless to say, they weren't too pleased but I never heard a peep out of them about it again.
ts of the highest order. Once upon a time I got threatening phone call from them telling me that I hadn't sent a document that I had commited to send to them by such and such a date. Strangely enough I don't trust these baskets so I'd sent it Special Delivery so just quoted the track and trace number and told the tw@t to f
k off and talk to their postroom because someone had signed for it. Needless to say, they weren't too pleased but I never heard a peep out of them about it again.Eric Mc said:
There are MANY people on PAYE who MUST complete Self Assessment forms ......or are higher rate tax payers. .
Eric, I have often wondered this point and you have mentioned it a couple of times before - Mrs Tonyvid is a higher rate payer, has only ever worked in the NHS and has no other forms of income, she has one account where she gets a tiny amount of interest(like £20) and everything else is in a mortgage offset account yet she has had to do returns for the last 5 years or so and the IR give her so much grief you wouldn't believe it. She recently had 2 letters on the same day, one saying you owe us a grand and the other saying don't bother with returns in the future
If she had no savings interest why would/should she have to fill out a return when it is all done PAYE?Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff