Oh, Good Grief !
Discussion
Ladies and Gentlemen,
For those of you who aren't old enough, a brummie comedian, named Jasper Carrott, used to have a complete set on stage about claims put through to Insurance xompanies. His recitals, apparently taken directly from calims forms, were hysterically funny. The stories varied immensely but they all followed the same theme which is where the guilty party (normally the driver) took a collection of loosely-related facts and tried to blend them into the most physio-esoteric quagmire which conspired to conquer the innocent and only by his innate skill saved the world from disaster.
As I have read some of the PH tesimonies this winter, the same smirk of recognition emerges from the corner of my mouth .....
"Not sure if it was the damn SO3's on the white line as I changed in to 4th , or a fuel spillage I hit changing from outside to inside lane . I had been taking it easy all day due to the conditions , so was only doing about 70 , but the back snapped viciously"
"short changing up to third and accelerating when the back end stepped out ....... Frightening what can happen at legal speeds ....Not sure if it was just the greasy road or rear near side gas shock that failed......"
Boys oh boys, for goodness sake ! I make two (sorry, three) pleas
1) These are powerful cars that require CONSIDERED care when driving in anything but ideal conditions - It's your foot on the gas !
2) My wife is an endangered-animal environmentalist. There is no animal on the planet which number as few as the remaining Cerbs - so stop killing the remaining few !!
3) As the collector (who owned the last two penny-black stamps) said when he tore up the penultimate one - Do you know how much that mekes the one I still own worth ? Carry on you nutters ! It makes mine almost worth as much in cash as she does in sentimental value.
Seriously, you'll never get better if you don't learn - one of the most difficult aspects of learning is to face-up to the truth !
These cars didn't crash themselves !
"
For those of you who aren't old enough, a brummie comedian, named Jasper Carrott, used to have a complete set on stage about claims put through to Insurance xompanies. His recitals, apparently taken directly from calims forms, were hysterically funny. The stories varied immensely but they all followed the same theme which is where the guilty party (normally the driver) took a collection of loosely-related facts and tried to blend them into the most physio-esoteric quagmire which conspired to conquer the innocent and only by his innate skill saved the world from disaster.
As I have read some of the PH tesimonies this winter, the same smirk of recognition emerges from the corner of my mouth .....
"Not sure if it was the damn SO3's on the white line as I changed in to 4th , or a fuel spillage I hit changing from outside to inside lane . I had been taking it easy all day due to the conditions , so was only doing about 70 , but the back snapped viciously"
"short changing up to third and accelerating when the back end stepped out ....... Frightening what can happen at legal speeds ....Not sure if it was just the greasy road or rear near side gas shock that failed......"
Boys oh boys, for goodness sake ! I make two (sorry, three) pleas
1) These are powerful cars that require CONSIDERED care when driving in anything but ideal conditions - It's your foot on the gas !
2) My wife is an endangered-animal environmentalist. There is no animal on the planet which number as few as the remaining Cerbs - so stop killing the remaining few !!
3) As the collector (who owned the last two penny-black stamps) said when he tore up the penultimate one - Do you know how much that mekes the one I still own worth ? Carry on you nutters ! It makes mine almost worth as much in cash as she does in sentimental value.
Seriously, you'll never get better if you don't learn - one of the most difficult aspects of learning is to face-up to the truth !
These cars didn't crash themselves !
"
Diesel spillage had not entered my mind until the recovery driver mentioned that it was a regular occurence where it occured , due to the truck drivers leaving the Holyhead ferry with tanks full to the brim on cheap Irish fuel .
The SO3 / white line issue is well documented on many other threads .
"Judge not others lest ye be judged"
The SO3 / white line issue is well documented on many other threads .
"Judge not others lest ye be judged"
I have only two words to say:
"SKIDPAN TRAINING"
I learnt a lot, much more than I expected. Do a full course and then try to book in once or twice every quarter. Not only will you learn the quintessential of cerbera handling, but you will also learn a few 'tricks' of the trade....
Hopefully myself and another fellow motoring nut will go ahead with our plan to enter the drifting scene... even more to be learnt!
We're always learning, but never think for one second we're in control when behind the wheel.
Some will genuinly be victims of other environmental and human obstacles, but the end result is always dependant on how one (you) handles themselve in the inevitable.
I nearly plastered my arse-hole wide open under a flyover bridge once, needless to say, everytime I hit the kazi, I thank god my arse is in one-piece and relatively good-working-order....
"SKIDPAN TRAINING"
I learnt a lot, much more than I expected. Do a full course and then try to book in once or twice every quarter. Not only will you learn the quintessential of cerbera handling, but you will also learn a few 'tricks' of the trade....
Hopefully myself and another fellow motoring nut will go ahead with our plan to enter the drifting scene... even more to be learnt!
We're always learning, but never think for one second we're in control when behind the wheel.
Some will genuinly be victims of other environmental and human obstacles, but the end result is always dependant on how one (you) handles themselve in the inevitable.
I nearly plastered my arse-hole wide open under a flyover bridge once, needless to say, everytime I hit the kazi, I thank god my arse is in one-piece and relatively good-working-order....
Cerbera's don't really lend themselves to being driven gently do they? No doubt the garage queens will outlive the ones that get used.
I'm not saying drive them hard in winter conditions but what's the point in owning one if you don't stretch its legs every now and again? As for the people who have had their cars bent recently, I'm glad they are big enough to let us know how they think it happened. Most people know when they have done something daft that resulted in a smash. I wheelied a ZX9R once straight into some railings and wrote it off. I felt like a right idiot and learnt from the experience. Equally, I had other accidents that were purely conditions related.
Can't remember what my point was now.
I'm not saying drive them hard in winter conditions but what's the point in owning one if you don't stretch its legs every now and again? As for the people who have had their cars bent recently, I'm glad they are big enough to let us know how they think it happened. Most people know when they have done something daft that resulted in a smash. I wheelied a ZX9R once straight into some railings and wrote it off. I felt like a right idiot and learnt from the experience. Equally, I had other accidents that were purely conditions related.
Can't remember what my point was now.
Theres a lot more crashing than reported on here! 
Many sold on to non-ph'ers, and a few who just dissapeared off the face of the earth....
yup, it takes a good stomach to get on here and make a post, and I'm glad these posts are being made, it does make one realise neither our cerbies or us are immortal....
chaps, please try to be helpful, alienating those by claiming their posts are sorry excuses isn't what the doctor ordered....
purple, you're right, these cars are made to be driven with a little umph, sadly though, our roads and other box owners dont fit like a glove! So driving with care and keeping away from temptation is the best course of action, regardless of the road conditions.... A race-track, a drag-strip, a huge feck-off car-park will be a lot safer for 'stretching' those legs....
Many sold on to non-ph'ers, and a few who just dissapeared off the face of the earth....
yup, it takes a good stomach to get on here and make a post, and I'm glad these posts are being made, it does make one realise neither our cerbies or us are immortal....
chaps, please try to be helpful, alienating those by claiming their posts are sorry excuses isn't what the doctor ordered....
purple, you're right, these cars are made to be driven with a little umph, sadly though, our roads and other box owners dont fit like a glove! So driving with care and keeping away from temptation is the best course of action, regardless of the road conditions.... A race-track, a drag-strip, a huge feck-off car-park will be a lot safer for 'stretching' those legs....
SXS said:
Theres a lot more crashing than reported on here!
Many sold on to non-ph'ers, and a few who just dissapeared off the face of the earth....
yup, it takes a good stomach to get on here and make a post, and I'm glad these posts are being made, it does make one realise neither our cerbies or us are immortal....
chaps, please try to be helpful, alienating those by claiming their posts are sorry excuses isn't what the doctor ordered....
purple, you're right, these cars are made to be driven with a little umph, sadly though, our roads and other box owners dont fit like a glove! So driving with care and keeping away from temptation is the best course of action, regardless of the road conditions.... A race-track, a drag-strip, a huge feck-off car-park will be a lot safer for 'stretching' those legs....
Sorry ash but tracks bore me to poop. The wide open road is where the action is. Everchanging scenery and everchanging conditions with mobile chicain to challenge the senses.
Not on a track where you go
Theres that tree
.
.
.
.
.
Theres that tree again
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
theres that tree again
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
theres that tree again
And as for the car park, I'm sorry but I don't own a tracksuit
But seriously, the point of this thread is there is no point looking for causes of the straight line failures because they are all driver error, exaggeration, or just plain lies. Hmmm, some very nice people seem to have had the problem, I still think its worth looking for a problem.
The sentiments of the original post are spot on. I would guess that 9 times out of 10, cars do not crash on their own. We all must be very very careful out there, especially when driving our Cerbs. I have been accused of driving like an old lady on many occasions during the winter months, but i don't really care
I must say, as a relatively new Cerbera owner (following 7 years with a Griff)I find it quite alarming reading some of the post-crash threads. A casual read suggests that these cars simply hurled themselves off the road into the scenery. I would be very keen for this not happen to me, especially as we went down the Cerbera route due to a growing family, and the fact that my wife is much happier driving it than she was the Griff. I try to reassure myself in the knowledge that there must have been something else going on that the drivers perhaps do not recall in the heat of the moment.
Surely these cars are not so close to the limit of traction in a straight line that the slightest glitch in road surface causes them to go ar$e about face?
If they are, then why the resistance to traction control, so prevelant on this forum? The simple addition of an off button would enable the purist to enjoy a good thrash on a nice warm dry day without digital intervention, but prevent so many of these incidents. OK, maybe the presence of TC may detract from the pure driving experience, but then so does re-designing the front of your car with the aid of a lamp post.
Jon H
Surely these cars are not so close to the limit of traction in a straight line that the slightest glitch in road surface causes them to go ar$e about face?
If they are, then why the resistance to traction control, so prevelant on this forum? The simple addition of an off button would enable the purist to enjoy a good thrash on a nice warm dry day without digital intervention, but prevent so many of these incidents. OK, maybe the presence of TC may detract from the pure driving experience, but then so does re-designing the front of your car with the aid of a lamp post.
Jon H
Julian64 said:
Theres that tree
.
.
.
.
.
Theres that tree again
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
theres that tree again.
If that was the Nordschleife or Spa, Julian, you must have been lapping very quickly, and that eidetic memory clearly came in useful after all.
I think the margin between misjudging the conditions, and getting away with it, and misjudging the conditions, and having to do one of "those" posts is very slim in a Cerb. That's the appeal, but that's also the potential wallet basher. I suspect that's why Cerbs change hands so often, in most cases. Most people have their own "whoa" limit, and once properly scared, get rid of the car. On the other end of the scale, there are of course bikers...
jon h said:
Surely these cars are not so close to the limit of traction in a straight line that the slightest glitch in road surface causes them to go ar$e about face?
Jon H
In my experience, traction as such is not the issue. More likely to be one of two things:
1) wildly varying degrees of suspension set up being possible, not all of them beneficial (our car came with different dampers on the rear from a reasonably respected indy, for God's sake). The difference once Trackcared/Nitroned is immense
2) Large tyre area with a small loading, as the car is relatively light
-tyres take forever to warm up to operating temp in winter
-even slight slip angles cause the tyre to "ride" over a greasy surface, rather than disperse moisture/leaves/crap
Captain Beaky said:
It's amazing how much diesel gets *spilled*, those lorry drivers must be incredibly careless etc etc ...
Ask any biker about diesel on roundabouts, there is more than you think. Not much on the straights though.
Similarly ask any biker about lines painted on the road, or drain covers, or ... I must confess I wasn't aware there was a specific issue with SO3s and white lines, any tyre would have less grip on a white line, particularly in wet conditions.
>> Edited by Steve_T on Tuesday 7th February 10:29
Funny this post should pop up, even odder I used the exact same phrase “Cars don’t crash themselves” whilst driving back from Santa Pod a couple of weeks ago with ASH.
Without doubt the road conditions at the moment are terrible. Some of this must be the salt glycol stuff that is spread all over the place. Also the lack of rain is not helping.
Sunday I drove down to the bike show at Alexander Palace., Two lanes one direction heading for the motorway. First, second third a bit of gas huge light up of tyres with the back starting to push out a bit, opposite lock applied throttle feathered car back in a straight line. This was at about 70, if I had panicked or not instantly got a bit of lock on things could have been different.
I don’t have a problem with the conditions at the moment and expect this sort of thing to happen. Especially when there is so little traction and so much power about.
I had to make a short run yesterday so thought I would try a more laidback approach.
Not giving it a poke, I drove as if going through the warm up procedure.
Much easier no spins or under steering round roundabouts.
So it would seem that any adverse reactions to giving it a bit of welly are fully with the driver, not that we had not already sussed this.
One thing that has been mentioned earlier by Steve T, get a bike and have a ride around I can guarantee you will develop your sense of control and feeling to a new level.
One other thing, the hydratrak Cerbs do have a tendency to push into over steer, it seems to be a characteristic, so you better be ready with the opposite lock if you do start playing about out there.
Nick.
Without doubt the road conditions at the moment are terrible. Some of this must be the salt glycol stuff that is spread all over the place. Also the lack of rain is not helping.
Sunday I drove down to the bike show at Alexander Palace., Two lanes one direction heading for the motorway. First, second third a bit of gas huge light up of tyres with the back starting to push out a bit, opposite lock applied throttle feathered car back in a straight line. This was at about 70, if I had panicked or not instantly got a bit of lock on things could have been different.
I don’t have a problem with the conditions at the moment and expect this sort of thing to happen. Especially when there is so little traction and so much power about.
I had to make a short run yesterday so thought I would try a more laidback approach.
Not giving it a poke, I drove as if going through the warm up procedure.
Much easier no spins or under steering round roundabouts.
So it would seem that any adverse reactions to giving it a bit of welly are fully with the driver, not that we had not already sussed this.
One thing that has been mentioned earlier by Steve T, get a bike and have a ride around I can guarantee you will develop your sense of control and feeling to a new level.
One other thing, the hydratrak Cerbs do have a tendency to push into over steer, it seems to be a characteristic, so you better be ready with the opposite lock if you do start playing about out there.
Nick.
I do take on board a lot of the views expressed here however I do feel the original post is a bit unfair.
After been a victim of a off myself last year see www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=146703&f=6&h=0&hw=paulk
At the time I had owned the car for nearly five years been on track days high speed runs etc and never once span it or lost control to the extent that caused damage. Yes had the car out of shape a couple of times but each time it’s been fairly predictable and quite forgiving. This time not one bit of warning scared the s*&% out of me. As my original post stated I had recently had the suspension changed I really don’t know if it was a contributing factor in my accident or not. Since then have had the suspension re-set up and have done a couple of high speed runs at CREAM with no problems at all. Still very very wary in any conditions other than perfect.
And no cars do not crash them selves drivers do.
My sympathies go to all who has had a mishap in their Cerbera I am sure they didn’t do it on purpose. Maybe we should all be a little more careful unless we want to become a sketch on a bloody Jasper Carrot show.
After been a victim of a off myself last year see www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=146703&f=6&h=0&hw=paulk
At the time I had owned the car for nearly five years been on track days high speed runs etc and never once span it or lost control to the extent that caused damage. Yes had the car out of shape a couple of times but each time it’s been fairly predictable and quite forgiving. This time not one bit of warning scared the s*&% out of me. As my original post stated I had recently had the suspension changed I really don’t know if it was a contributing factor in my accident or not. Since then have had the suspension re-set up and have done a couple of high speed runs at CREAM with no problems at all. Still very very wary in any conditions other than perfect.
And no cars do not crash them selves drivers do.
My sympathies go to all who has had a mishap in their Cerbera I am sure they didn’t do it on purpose. Maybe we should all be a little more careful unless we want to become a sketch on a bloody Jasper Carrot show.
Nickccc said:
I don’t have a problem with the conditions at the moment and expect this sort of thing to happen. Especially when there is so little traction and so much power about.
I too, dont have much of a problem with the conditions at the moment. I've had quite a few step outs and slides recently. I'm normally ok with letting her slide a bit, feathering the throttle and applying some opposite lock (of varying degrees). I suppose the problems will come when theres not enough room for the back end to move about. Thats when theres the danger of clipping something you didnt want to clip.
Driver error or not there seems to be a lot of cerbs lunching it at the moment, and as SXS says, theres probably a lot more than we see on PH.
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff