SC won't fire on number 1

SC won't fire on number 1

Author
Discussion

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Sunday 15th December 2002
quotequote all
I have been experiencing probs over the last few weeks with a slight misfire on number 1 cylinder and more recently a warm start problem.

On Friday things took a turn for the worse - the car wouldn't properly and my oil level started to rise (fuel I am assuming).

Well - after carrying out various tests I have come to the conclusion that might slight miss on number 1 cylinder has got much worse. In fact it is not firing at all!

The question is why.

I have changed the fuel injector, the plug, the distributor cap and rotor arm. I have swapped leads.

When I put a spare plug on the offending lead I get a regular strong spark.

I have done a quick compression test and am getting well over 100 psi on 1 and 2, and that was with the remaining plugs still in place and a cold engine! I am assuming that if there is something seriously mechanical wrong in the cylinder my compression would be much less - and the cylinder would still fire slightly at idle.

The plug in 1 is always soaked with fuel and stone cold when I pull it - and my oil level is still rising!!

The only other thing I can thing to check is the valve clearances. So that's the next (and last) thing on my list.

Help!!!!!

Danny

rich 36

13,739 posts

279 months

Sunday 15th December 2002
quotequote all
Danny, see if this site helps
p-car.com

RUF 3

240 posts

280 months

Sunday 15th December 2002
quotequote all
A similar thing happened to the Hart engine in my single seater. In the end it turned out to be a management problem where for some bizarre reason it was sending far too much fuel to one injector. Naturally with so much fuel swilling about it was simply drowning the plug, so down the bore it went. Apart from a slight misfire originally it was difficult to really determine the problem. The drysump tank overflowing with a mixture of fuel and oil was disconcerting, but did give the game away. Fuel is not a very good lubricant, so a total rebuild is now happening. If your valve clearances turn out to be OK, and realistically they would have to be well out to suddenly stop the cylinder from firing, I reckon a look at fuel delivery quantity might be worthwhile. It may be worth trying to start the car with the choke system disabled in case the problem is on this side, as by the time the choke is cutting out the plug could be so wet it will not recover. There are instances where due to the lead or plug, the plug will not spark under compression but seems OK when out of the engine. Is 100 psi a decent figure for a compression test on a 911? At a guess it does not seem all that great to me, although allowance has to be made for the lack of lubrication and therefore sealing on No1. I would suggest you speak to a Porsche specialist. Sometimes the oddest problem is something they have seen before and they can go straight to it, whereas you or I could spend days on the process of elimination. Good Luck.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Sunday 15th December 2002
quotequote all
The injection system (CIS)is mechanical and all injectors pump fuel continously. Therefore I cannot see a way that there would be more fuel going to one injector only - although the thought had crossed my mind.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Sunday 15th December 2002
quotequote all
On and I forgot to mention that I had tried swapping the fuel injector pipes with number 2 cylinder and it still had the same problem.

The compression was just under 150 psi on one spin and I didn't want to go mad as I had the other plugs still in - I was just making sure I had some compression!

jeff m

4,066 posts

271 months

Monday 16th December 2002
quotequote all
Hi there
Not sure if the SC has the Beru connecters, (mine does)
There are two types, one type that should measure 2.9K ohms and the others sould measure 4K ohms, whichever type you have they should all measure within 200 ohms.
They also tend to breakdown under load.
Worth checking, otherwise it could be really bad valve
guide.
Try www.pelicanparts.com, go 911 bul board, you have to join to post, but it's free, there are plenty of SC people there.
jeff
edit valve guide - forgot test of cyl - sorry

>> Edited by jeff m on Monday 16th December 00:49

jeff m

4,066 posts

271 months

Monday 16th December 2002
quotequote all
Try swapping injecter. # 1 could be squirting instead of spraying and not atomising fuel
jeff
(I'm trying to think of the cheap cures first)

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Monday 16th December 2002
quotequote all
I have tried a different injector (I replaced them all about 6 months ago), but what is a Beru injector?

Are you thinking of the 3.2 which has electronic fuel injection? My car is a 3.0 SC with mechanical injection

Danny

lemon yella rs

254 posts

271 months

Monday 16th December 2002
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Please read my post on your check valve posting.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Monday 16th December 2002
quotequote all
I do feel resistance on the flap, cheers for the idea Laurence

Danny

jeff m

4,066 posts

271 months

Monday 16th December 2002
quotequote all
It seems we have the same taste in cars (wedge and 911)
The Buru connecters are the brown connecters between plug and lead. As I said, not sure if your car has them as mine is a MFI car. But they are difficult to test (definitively) and can cause some ilogical faults.
Jeff

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Tuesday 17th December 2002
quotequote all
Cheers Jeff,

My SC has black connectors between the leads and plugs, but I have swapped the leads and it still doesn't fire on 1

Danny

ninemeister

1,146 posts

271 months

Tuesday 17th December 2002
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Danny,
A perfect SC will compression test at 175-200psi. Do a compressed air leak down test as well and listen in the exhaust pipe, air box and oil tank. Also check for a loose valve clearance. I suspect that you have bent a valve.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Wednesday 18th December 2002
quotequote all
Colin,

I haven't got access to a leak down tester but am planning on connecting the compressor up and seeing if I could hear anything in the exhaust/inlet.

Have you ever heard of a fuel distributor going faulty on one outlet only and flooding the plug? I am going to swap the fuel pipes round and see if the problem moves to another cylinder - but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Do you know where I could buy a CIS pressure gauge?

Thanks

Danny

ninemeister

1,146 posts

271 months

Wednesday 18th December 2002
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No, but I do know where you can find a good specialist with leakdown and K-Jet test equipment....

Danny, bite the bullet and get it professionally looked at, the SC is a reliable old girl so you do not need to buy the stuff yourself (the K-jet test kit was £470, the leak down unit around £120) when for a hours or so labour (around £80) you will know all there is to know. Sometimes although your skill levels are not in question, it is better to get help.

Oh, and yes, I have known a metering head go down on one cyl, swap the pipes and see if it transfers to another cylinder.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Wednesday 18th December 2002
quotequote all
Thanks Colin, I would like to try everything I can before calling in the professionals.

Spoke to HR Owen re the cost of an exchange fuel distributor - £600ish and no longer available......

Anyway I see how I get on at the weekend.

Danny

jeff m

4,066 posts

271 months

Thursday 19th December 2002
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Danny
I assume you have run the car in the dark to check for arcing of HT leads.
Check vacuum to distributer for leaks.
Also try tapping the injecter with engine running.
Failing that pull the injecter and get it checked for openning at too lower pressure.
(If it opens at too low a pressure then it would be constantly dripping) I know it's relativly new but...
If not then you may have to remove the valve covers to check the valves. If one of the valves has a large gap there could be a small peice of crap stopping the valve seating. You will also be able to check for play in the guides.

jeff m

4,066 posts

271 months

Thursday 19th December 2002
quotequote all
www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/bob_tindel/911_inj_nozzle.htm
Danny read the above link it may help.
Jeff

ninemeister

1,146 posts

271 months

Thursday 19th December 2002
quotequote all
Danny,
I said professionals.....

(sorry boys, only kidding)

We can supply exchange rebuilt metering heads, or possibly a used one depending on your engine (180 or 204?), should it prove that you need one.

danny hoffman

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

275 months

Thursday 19th December 2002
quotequote all
Colin - it's a 204, what sort of money am I looking at?

Danny