Haggling with specialist dealers - prospects of a result...?
Discussion
A general query, which is probably like asking "How long is a piece of string?", but I'll try it anyway....
I'm in the market for a late 993 or possibly an early-ish 996. Still not decided yet, but that's not the issue for present purposes. Budget is around £25K, but could be stretched by a max of £2-3K if an absolute belter of a car presented itself (and I can convince the missus!) and depending on what kind of p/x offer I get. (Would obviously prefer to sell privately, but not much interest in my S2000 at present, so if I want to change any time soon it may be the only option)
Ideally, I'd love a late 993 Targa. Not all that many around and those that are available tend to be priced at around £27-28K, so are at the extreme top end of my budget. .
Now, if I was to walk onto the lot at a dealer who had one in stock, with a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket, how much could I reasonably expect to knock that price down by? I know it will vary from car to car and from dealer to dealer but what's the general experience in dealing with specialist dealers? Is it very much a case of what you see is what you pay? Or is there any scope for doing deals and, if so, how much.
I'm also assuming that a p/x is going to reduce the scope for haggling considerably?
(I know this is pretty basic stuff to a lot of you, but I haven't had much experience in buying used cars. I know there's always a margin there which can be eaten into if you're dealing with a franchised main dealer but I don't know whether that will also hold true for specialists in this kind of niche market)
I DID say it was a "How long is a piece of string" type question!
I'm in the market for a late 993 or possibly an early-ish 996. Still not decided yet, but that's not the issue for present purposes. Budget is around £25K, but could be stretched by a max of £2-3K if an absolute belter of a car presented itself (and I can convince the missus!) and depending on what kind of p/x offer I get. (Would obviously prefer to sell privately, but not much interest in my S2000 at present, so if I want to change any time soon it may be the only option)
Ideally, I'd love a late 993 Targa. Not all that many around and those that are available tend to be priced at around £27-28K, so are at the extreme top end of my budget. .
Now, if I was to walk onto the lot at a dealer who had one in stock, with a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket, how much could I reasonably expect to knock that price down by? I know it will vary from car to car and from dealer to dealer but what's the general experience in dealing with specialist dealers? Is it very much a case of what you see is what you pay? Or is there any scope for doing deals and, if so, how much.
I'm also assuming that a p/x is going to reduce the scope for haggling considerably?
(I know this is pretty basic stuff to a lot of you, but I haven't had much experience in buying used cars. I know there's always a margin there which can be eaten into if you're dealing with a franchised main dealer but I don't know whether that will also hold true for specialists in this kind of niche market)
I DID say it was a "How long is a piece of string" type question!
To give you some idea with my 1st 993 I managed to knock off £1.5k from the asking price. My current 993 was bought for 3k euros less than the asking.
Depends on varying factors such as how the market is doing, how long they've had the car, if they need the sale but mainy how much you persist/wear them down to make you go away and leave them in peace
Depends on varying factors such as how the market is doing, how long they've had the car, if they need the sale but mainy how much you persist/wear them down to make you go away and leave them in peace
I bought a 993 Targa last November. The attitude of the dealers was very much "No deals, I can sell all of the good 993's I can get my hands on".
I got a dealer to come down £1500 on a nice cab, but it turned out to be a cat D write off on the HPI check (I know cat D isn't that bad, but it does affect price and ease of resale).
I eventually bought privately.
I got a dealer to come down £1500 on a nice cab, but it turned out to be a cat D write off on the HPI check (I know cat D isn't that bad, but it does affect price and ease of resale).
I eventually bought privately.
Andy_Clap said:
I bought a 993 Targa last November. The attitude of the dealers was very much "No deals, I can sell all of the good 993's I can get my hands on".
That's pretty much what I feared
Anyone else want to add their own experiences? (Not just Targa-related - any kind of recent 993 acquisition is probably just as relevant and helpful
) Ho hum. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
If you have a part exchange then you need to be thinking in terms of the "cost to change". How much are you willing to spend on top of your S2000 for the Porker?
This is the number you need to negotiate, not worry about the absolute cost of the 993 or what you are being given for the Honda: the dealer may have room to move on both cars.
This is the number you need to negotiate, not worry about the absolute cost of the 993 or what you are being given for the Honda: the dealer may have room to move on both cars.
I don`t think there is such a thing as a "standard" discount. If the car is well priced to start with then there is no reason to lower the price. If it`s overpriced then a fair haggle is to be expected.
With older cars finding the stock is probably more of a challenge than selling. There is a huge range in terms of cars out there and so condition can not be taken for granted. The other extreme is a brand new car where they are all identical and so a £100 saving really is a £100 saving.
Henry
With older cars finding the stock is probably more of a challenge than selling. There is a huge range in terms of cars out there and so condition can not be taken for granted. The other extreme is a brand new car where they are all identical and so a £100 saving really is a £100 saving.
Henry
We price the cars to sell. There are always some cars that for one reason or another look a bit dear and where appropriate we`ll have a haggle, but in instances where the car is worth it`s money all day long you haven`t got a hope in hell`s chance.
The problem with "sticking a couple of grand on top" waiting for your "impulsive buyer" is that no one else would ever pick up the phone. We need those phones to ring because we like to move metal.
Henry
The problem with "sticking a couple of grand on top" waiting for your "impulsive buyer" is that no one else would ever pick up the phone. We need those phones to ring because we like to move metal.
Henry
paultje said:
Best bet is to sell the S2000 first, and then go to Henry et al...with cash in hand you can always negotiate.
Oh yes, that's taken for granted. Like I said, in an ideal world I'd do just that and rock up at a dealer with a wodge of cash and then haggle like a Moroccan souk salesman!
But now isn't a great time to sell a ragtop so I either try to contain my impulsive side and stick with it for another few months until Spring (admittedly, no great hardship) or accept that I'll get less on a p/x but get into a Porker sooner rather than later.
Of course, the cost to change is what really counts. I'm trying to get a feel for what I'd get by way of p/x at the same time as trying to determine whether there's likely to be any flexibility at the other end on the sticker price.
A lottery win would make life SO much easier!
As a buyer, you know your max price limit. I think this is an important aspect that we sometimes "forget" in the heat of the negotiation (especially once we've found the car we want), and something which dealers rarely respect.
In my recent search for a GT3, I saw several both private and dealer. The first one that I said "I want", I walked away from it. It was tough, but it made me a lot sharper the second time around and forced me to seriously know exactly what I wanted before dropping the cash. When I found the one I wanted, I stuck to my budget and was ready to walk away if the dealer didn't meet me at the price I was willing to pay. For enthusiasts such as ourselves, I honestly think that discipline in the situation is an incredibly hard thing to do!
At the end of the day, the dealer may have your car, but you have a budget to stick to. If you don't buy it then, in a couple of months the same car will be available at the price you want. If you go over your budget early on, you will regret the purchase later on when you do see the car you want at the price you *wanted*. I don't think the buyer ever gets a "bargain" as the same car was sold to the dealer for several thousands less when you would probably have been happy to pay the private seller their asking price.
Call me a cynic, but dealers don't love "THE car" like we imagine ourselves to... they sell you the car because it's their business to make money.
In my recent search for a GT3, I saw several both private and dealer. The first one that I said "I want", I walked away from it. It was tough, but it made me a lot sharper the second time around and forced me to seriously know exactly what I wanted before dropping the cash. When I found the one I wanted, I stuck to my budget and was ready to walk away if the dealer didn't meet me at the price I was willing to pay. For enthusiasts such as ourselves, I honestly think that discipline in the situation is an incredibly hard thing to do!
At the end of the day, the dealer may have your car, but you have a budget to stick to. If you don't buy it then, in a couple of months the same car will be available at the price you want. If you go over your budget early on, you will regret the purchase later on when you do see the car you want at the price you *wanted*. I don't think the buyer ever gets a "bargain" as the same car was sold to the dealer for several thousands less when you would probably have been happy to pay the private seller their asking price.
Call me a cynic, but dealers don't love "THE car" like we imagine ourselves to... they sell you the car because it's their business to make money.
Depends what I have and if I can replace it easily once sold........had someone on the blower today trying to get 20% off a five grand car, no can do, by the same token I knocked two grnad off a Bentley I had in stock for six months last year, if I like the customer I am more likely to knock a few bob off...........
polarexpress said:
Call me a cynic, but dealers don't love "THE car" like we imagine ourselves to... they sell you the car because it's their business to make money.
Not sure exactly what you meant by that, but you may be surprised. When a Porsche comes in the yard I`m buying with my head, although there are some lovely cars that you just know you`re going to try & go the extra mile for. I have to keep calm, I`m not just spending my hard earned cash but I`m potentially buying your next car. You wouldn`t want me to go all soft and squidgy & get it wrong now would you.
As for loving the car well that`s a different matter. I can still remember driving my first ever Porsche 911 B363RDY, the excitement, the unfamiliarity, the smell, the eccentricity. I can still remember my first dash accross Europe in a 911, I can still remember my first ever Porsche a brown 924 automatic - what great fun I had in that thing, I was a playboy ! And I still remember the feeling of strapping up in my GT3 cup car, the nervousness if I haven`t been in for a while. The sweet smell of the brakes after a good run, the clatter from the gearbox, the feeling as it just hops accross the road a little bit when it`s on the edge, the heat.
So yes, I love the car. I wonder if the accountants and customer service managers at Porsche share similar happy memories ?
Henry
LL,
I recently swapped my S2000 for a 911 and I ended up selling the S to these guys:
www.churchsmotorcompany.co.uk/_churchs.htm
Speak to Glenn, he gave me a reasonable offer for the S (about 10% under full market value), and picked it up 3 days later with a bankers draught.
Does make it easier when you can just walk into a dealer and offer cash.
Si
I recently swapped my S2000 for a 911 and I ended up selling the S to these guys:
www.churchsmotorcompany.co.uk/_churchs.htm
Speak to Glenn, he gave me a reasonable offer for the S (about 10% under full market value), and picked it up 3 days later with a bankers draught.
Does make it easier when you can just walk into a dealer and offer cash.
Si
It does depend on the car, if it is really what you want don't walk away for £500. The problem is if the dealer realises its just right for you then you will pay up to take it away. So it is then the typical negotiation where you pretend its the worst example you've seen but are willing to take it off his hands and the dealer pretends its the best he's ever seen. Dealers are good negotiators they do it every day made worse by the market for older cars being less transparent. Do plenty of looking, find a car you want and buy it, as was said earlier you can't choose by comparing discounts.
AJAX50 said:
as was said earlier you can't choose by comparing discounts.
Of course, you're quite right - I wasn't suggesting that the discount I could would determine which car I might buy. I was really just looking for a steer on whether, in other people's experience, I'd be banging my head against a brick wall trying to talk the price down or whether it's worth a try.
I guess it's ALWAYS worth a try though!
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