PCCB on 997 GT3
Discussion
I thought it better to start a new thread on this aspect.
If the latest details of the new 997 GT3 are correct there appears to be a change in tact for Porsche with respect to PCCB, they almost appear to be encouraging their use on track due to their proven race heritage. On that basis will the warranty cover them for track use?
Excert from "ALEGED" promotional material;
"The new 911 Gt3 is also available with an optional high-performance brake system. The Porsche ceramic composite brake system (PCCB) has been succesfully deployed in a range of race series, including Porsche Michelin Supercup. Even at high operating temperatures, the thermal resistance of the ceramic disc ensures exceptional dimensional stability.
The ceramic material is totally resistant to corrosion and offers excelent acoustic damping properties.
PCCB provides shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions. Excellent fade resistance ensures greater balance when slowing from racing speeds. The key advantage of PCCB is the total weight saving of approximately 50% compared to equivalent discs. As well as enhancing performance and fuel economy, this represents an enormous reduction in both unsprung and rotating masses."
Which part where you shouldn't use them for trackdays was implied???
>> Edited by clubsport on Saturday 11th February 17:39
If the latest details of the new 997 GT3 are correct there appears to be a change in tact for Porsche with respect to PCCB, they almost appear to be encouraging their use on track due to their proven race heritage. On that basis will the warranty cover them for track use?
Excert from "ALEGED" promotional material;
"The new 911 Gt3 is also available with an optional high-performance brake system. The Porsche ceramic composite brake system (PCCB) has been succesfully deployed in a range of race series, including Porsche Michelin Supercup. Even at high operating temperatures, the thermal resistance of the ceramic disc ensures exceptional dimensional stability.
The ceramic material is totally resistant to corrosion and offers excelent acoustic damping properties.
PCCB provides shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions. Excellent fade resistance ensures greater balance when slowing from racing speeds. The key advantage of PCCB is the total weight saving of approximately 50% compared to equivalent discs. As well as enhancing performance and fuel economy, this represents an enormous reduction in both unsprung and rotating masses."
Which part where you shouldn't use them for trackdays was implied???
>> Edited by clubsport on Saturday 11th February 17:39
Very interesting.
I like the idea of ceramic brakes in terms of their promised fade free performance and low unsprung mass. However, I don't like the price or the fact that if you take the car on track they are knackered quickly.
But if they weren't easily knackered on track, or if they lasted ages on track before cracking etc, I would be very tempted. Ultra lightweight wheels and brakes are a very cool idea in principle afterall.
I like the idea of ceramic brakes in terms of their promised fade free performance and low unsprung mass. However, I don't like the price or the fact that if you take the car on track they are knackered quickly.
But if they weren't easily knackered on track, or if they lasted ages on track before cracking etc, I would be very tempted. Ultra lightweight wheels and brakes are a very cool idea in principle afterall.
Bought GT2 with PCCB's (they looked OK to a novice like me), done 3000 miles, inc a very wet Donnignton, a steady run at Spa and a good hammering at Bedford.
The front disks are totally tattered, will post photos for a laugh. Have now fitted the JZM Alcon's. Were a piece of &iss to fit (thanks for help Steve).
Have read GT Purely Porsche on the new Turbo and nearly bust a gasket at the article "SGL has re-designed the cooling paths through the ceramic discs as well, so they actually perform better than before - something i considered impossible."
written by Matt Davis.
Matt needs to get out more, having had total break failure at Bedford i consider PCCB as the WORST example of high performance brakes... why?
Because pad wear is too high, you get no warning of overheating and they have cost me ( if i replace them) £2/mile and that was including driving to Spa from the Midlands and back.
If i just consider track days then its £20/mile
And i was not even racing.....
Now if Porsche said SGL have totally re-designed / re-engineered the whole disk assembly because of collosal and total premature failure which has caused us some embarassment because the rest of the car is more than up to a good thrashing, then i may consider another Porsche spec brake disk.....
Otherwise i am now coloured and probably a little set in my opinion which will take some shifting.... if they mentioned PCCC - i will be ringing Steve up at JZM asking if he has developed a real clutch before i dare buy another Porker.
To Porsche i say "Good Luck marketing your new PCCB you will need it"
The front disks are totally tattered, will post photos for a laugh. Have now fitted the JZM Alcon's. Were a piece of &iss to fit (thanks for help Steve).
Have read GT Purely Porsche on the new Turbo and nearly bust a gasket at the article "SGL has re-designed the cooling paths through the ceramic discs as well, so they actually perform better than before - something i considered impossible."
written by Matt Davis.
Matt needs to get out more, having had total break failure at Bedford i consider PCCB as the WORST example of high performance brakes... why?
Because pad wear is too high, you get no warning of overheating and they have cost me ( if i replace them) £2/mile and that was including driving to Spa from the Midlands and back.
If i just consider track days then its £20/mile
And i was not even racing.....
Now if Porsche said SGL have totally re-designed / re-engineered the whole disk assembly because of collosal and total premature failure which has caused us some embarassment because the rest of the car is more than up to a good thrashing, then i may consider another Porsche spec brake disk.....
Otherwise i am now coloured and probably a little set in my opinion which will take some shifting.... if they mentioned PCCC - i will be ringing Steve up at JZM asking if he has developed a real clutch before i dare buy another Porker.
To Porsche i say "Good Luck marketing your new PCCB you will need it"
[pic] http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e32 [/pic]
[pic] http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e32 [/[pic]
[pic] http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e32 [/pic]
the new and the old, why i will not by PCCB again until this forum says they are great and worth every penny.
[pic] http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e32 [/[pic]
[pic] http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e32 [/pic]
the new and the old, why i will not by PCCB again until this forum says they are great and worth every penny.
Same story as many of us here about PCCB failures, yet still the media peddle the line about PCCB reliability.......
As for what they say about PCCB in 997, it's much less strong than what they said for the GT2 where they specifically said it was good for the hardest track use in the brochure, then refused to warranty them.
Hmmm, Porsche need to sort this out. Given my new vested interest, I'm going to see what I can do to get this little issue some overdue media attention, in order that Porsche might like to consider sorting their product out for the purpose it was intended 
If any owners with bad experiences could drop me a mail, I would like to pull some stats together for the MD of Porsche UK to give his consideration.
If any owners with bad experiences could drop me a mail, I would like to pull some stats together for the MD of Porsche UK to give his consideration.
The problem isn't the disks per-se, its the cost of replacing them that is ludicrous, and the fact taht they don't last long enough with track use to justify the premium.
It will be a hard fight I suspect, although you may just get lucky with a good will gesture.
Having said that, Porsche are busy telling a large group of RS owners to shove their corroding alloys where the sun don't shine despite all appearances suggesting that the wheels are not fit for purpose nor of sufficient quality, and they aren't even a wear item...
To be honest Dan, I wasn't particularly looking for a goodwill gesture for me. I just think the product does not live up to the marketing and everyone in the world should be aware of the issue and potential cost of running PCCB. Porsche should improve the product to match the marketing or change the marketing.
If my understanding is correct, the ceramic disks do not last as long as alcons. That is certainly not what the marketing suggests. The disks may well ultimately have better performance, but when longetivity is so poor, PCCB is really only a good option for race teams and millionaires, of which I'm neither !!!
Cheers
If my understanding is correct, the ceramic disks do not last as long as alcons. That is certainly not what the marketing suggests. The disks may well ultimately have better performance, but when longetivity is so poor, PCCB is really only a good option for race teams and millionaires, of which I'm neither !!!
Cheers
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