Another Police Officer shot
Discussion
Don't know if this has been posted up elewhere, but a Police Officer has been shot in Nottingham.
From the BBC News website:
Policewoman, 23, shot in burglary
A woman police officer was shot and seriously injured as she investigated a burglary in Nottingham.
Probationary officer Rachael Bown, 23, was attacked as she attempted to stop a man near the scene of a break-in at Lenton shortly before midnight.
Police said as Pc Bown challenged the suspect he drew a firearm and opened fire, hitting her in the stomach.
The officer, who was wearing body armour, is in a "serious" condition at the city's Queen's Medical Centre.
'Experienced colleague '
She was taken to the hospital's intensive care unit shortly after 0500 GMT after undergoing emergency surgery. Her family are with her at the hospital.
No one was arrested in the incident.
Ch Supt Marcus Beale, the divisional commander for Nottingham city, said Pc Bown had attended the incident at Lenton Boulevard with a long-serving colleague.
He said: "She was just coming to the end of her two-year probationary period and was working last night with an experienced colleague who [has] something like 15 or 16 years' service.
"She was wearing body armour. Unfortunately, she has been shot below where that body armour protects, which is a great shame."
Pc Bown was wearing the standard issue equipment used by Nottinghamshire Police which is stab proof which has a level of protection against bullets.
Student Alex Wyatt, 21, who lives in the house where Pc Bown was shot, said his housemate, Jody Ottery, was in the property when an intruder broke in.
"From what I understand, he was on the first floor in his bedroom when he heard a window smash and someone force their way through the front door," he said.
"He came downstairs and saw this guy who just ran, so he called the police."
Alan Simpson, MP for Nottingham South, said that the shooting highlighted several areas of concern.
"There are two sets of issues to be addressed. One is the adequacy of current body armour, and I'll be talking about that with the police later," he said.
"The second is the question of how we're dealing with the availability of guns on the streets and the prospect of them entering into more routine crimes that had traditionally not been associated with guns."
'Known criminals'
Victor Bates, whose wife Marian was shot dead by armed robbers at their jewellery shop in Arnold in September 2003, said the incidence of gun crime in Nottingham was now an "emergency" and police action had failed to combat the problem.
He said: "One cannot see anything that's been done to control the number of guns in Nottingham.
"What we need are much more rigorous police methods. We need stop and search, we need the premises of known criminals searched on a regular basis, so that the guns may be taken out of society."
Jon Collins, leader of Nottingham City Council, has insisted that gun crime is still rare in the city.
Councillor Collins said the police and the council, working together, had made "great strides" in tackling the problem.
'Shocking incident'
He said: "I am shocked and saddened by the news that Rachael Bown was shot.
"Whilst this is a shocking incident, gun crime is an increasingly rare occurrence."
In recent years Nottingham has been at the centre of a number of high-profile incidents involving gun-related crime.
Two years after the Marian Bates case, two gangland thugs were convicted of the murder of schoolgirl Danielle Beccan, 14, in a drive-by shooting in October 2004.
However, police say the number of shootings fell by 74% in 2005.
From the BBC News website:
Policewoman, 23, shot in burglary
A woman police officer was shot and seriously injured as she investigated a burglary in Nottingham.
Probationary officer Rachael Bown, 23, was attacked as she attempted to stop a man near the scene of a break-in at Lenton shortly before midnight.
Police said as Pc Bown challenged the suspect he drew a firearm and opened fire, hitting her in the stomach.
The officer, who was wearing body armour, is in a "serious" condition at the city's Queen's Medical Centre.
'Experienced colleague '
She was taken to the hospital's intensive care unit shortly after 0500 GMT after undergoing emergency surgery. Her family are with her at the hospital.
No one was arrested in the incident.
Ch Supt Marcus Beale, the divisional commander for Nottingham city, said Pc Bown had attended the incident at Lenton Boulevard with a long-serving colleague.
He said: "She was just coming to the end of her two-year probationary period and was working last night with an experienced colleague who [has] something like 15 or 16 years' service.
"She was wearing body armour. Unfortunately, she has been shot below where that body armour protects, which is a great shame."
Pc Bown was wearing the standard issue equipment used by Nottinghamshire Police which is stab proof which has a level of protection against bullets.
Student Alex Wyatt, 21, who lives in the house where Pc Bown was shot, said his housemate, Jody Ottery, was in the property when an intruder broke in.
"From what I understand, he was on the first floor in his bedroom when he heard a window smash and someone force their way through the front door," he said.
"He came downstairs and saw this guy who just ran, so he called the police."
Alan Simpson, MP for Nottingham South, said that the shooting highlighted several areas of concern.
"There are two sets of issues to be addressed. One is the adequacy of current body armour, and I'll be talking about that with the police later," he said.
"The second is the question of how we're dealing with the availability of guns on the streets and the prospect of them entering into more routine crimes that had traditionally not been associated with guns."
'Known criminals'
Victor Bates, whose wife Marian was shot dead by armed robbers at their jewellery shop in Arnold in September 2003, said the incidence of gun crime in Nottingham was now an "emergency" and police action had failed to combat the problem.
He said: "One cannot see anything that's been done to control the number of guns in Nottingham.
"What we need are much more rigorous police methods. We need stop and search, we need the premises of known criminals searched on a regular basis, so that the guns may be taken out of society."
Jon Collins, leader of Nottingham City Council, has insisted that gun crime is still rare in the city.
Councillor Collins said the police and the council, working together, had made "great strides" in tackling the problem.
'Shocking incident'
He said: "I am shocked and saddened by the news that Rachael Bown was shot.
"Whilst this is a shocking incident, gun crime is an increasingly rare occurrence."
In recent years Nottingham has been at the centre of a number of high-profile incidents involving gun-related crime.
Two years after the Marian Bates case, two gangland thugs were convicted of the murder of schoolgirl Danielle Beccan, 14, in a drive-by shooting in October 2004.
However, police say the number of shootings fell by 74% in 2005.
Very sad. There seem to be major problems in Nottingham !
Some of the Police Bloggers recently have been saying that the stint doing the 24/7 in Uniform stuff is something people don't do for very long and then they 'move up' to other areas (and that returning to Uniform is viewed as a sanction).
Don't know how accurate this is.
Some of the Police Bloggers recently have been saying that the stint doing the 24/7 in Uniform stuff is something people don't do for very long and then they 'move up' to other areas (and that returning to Uniform is viewed as a sanction).
Don't know how accurate this is.
I recently retired from the Police after serving all of my time in uniform. CID officers consider themselves to be the elite due to the common mis-conception that they are somehow superior policemen to their uniform non-specialised colleagues (excluding trafpol and dog handlers).
I always think that CID specialise in crime and can justify a lack of understanding of "non-crime offences" whereas the uniformed officer has to be the "jack of all trades" and be able to tackle whatever he comes across. Far more of a demanding role IMHO than the narrower remit of the detective.
Uniformed officers are generally first on the scene and CID usually arrive when all is done and dusted. The paperwork usually falls to the uniformed unit whilst the steely-eyed, lantern-jawed detective descends on the scene with a mythical awe from those around him/her. "This must be serious, they've brought in a real detective...gasp!"
The reason CID see a return to uniform as a punishment is because their limited experience of the wide variety of day to day work of the uniformed officer leaves the detective feeling and looking (in his/her ill-fitting uniform and stylised hair) like a fish out of water. What would his peers say on seeing their suited and booted colleague dealing with domestics, RTC's, shoplifters, drunks, beggars, vagrants et al?
Newly promorted CID Sergeants and Inspectors are posted into uniform branch for experience of normal policing before being pulled back into CID, this proves the wealth of experience required to police the streets in day to day situations, uniformed police officers...not the sub-species most CID would have you believe.
I always think that CID specialise in crime and can justify a lack of understanding of "non-crime offences" whereas the uniformed officer has to be the "jack of all trades" and be able to tackle whatever he comes across. Far more of a demanding role IMHO than the narrower remit of the detective.
Uniformed officers are generally first on the scene and CID usually arrive when all is done and dusted. The paperwork usually falls to the uniformed unit whilst the steely-eyed, lantern-jawed detective descends on the scene with a mythical awe from those around him/her. "This must be serious, they've brought in a real detective...gasp!"
The reason CID see a return to uniform as a punishment is because their limited experience of the wide variety of day to day work of the uniformed officer leaves the detective feeling and looking (in his/her ill-fitting uniform and stylised hair) like a fish out of water. What would his peers say on seeing their suited and booted colleague dealing with domestics, RTC's, shoplifters, drunks, beggars, vagrants et al?
Newly promorted CID Sergeants and Inspectors are posted into uniform branch for experience of normal policing before being pulled back into CID, this proves the wealth of experience required to police the streets in day to day situations, uniformed police officers...not the sub-species most CID would have you believe.
phillipj said:
I recently retired from the Police after serving all of my time in uniform. CID officers consider themselves to be the elite due to the common mis-conception that they are somehow superior policemen to their uniform non-specialised colleagues (excluding trafpol and dog handlers).
Hmmm, so my ten years in uniform count for nothing, eh?
mungo said:
If you like an adrenelin rush though, no job is as good as this!
I do occasionally miss the "rush" sometimes of uniform response work, but it can be physically and mentally very demanding - I have seen a number of colleagues effectively "burnt out" after working punishing shifts for years.
I made the decision to change roles, as I wasn't happy where I was. And it's not all about the workplace, the change has improved my home life too. I now get two weekends off out of three (instead of two out of five), I work nights three or four times a year (instead of every two and a half weeks), and I'm having to use my brain a bit more, and currently I'm getting more job satisfaction.
I have worked alongside people who've done 30 years in uniform, on shifts, but they yend to be the exception, rather than the rule. I respect anyone who can manage it, as it literally can take years off your life (as can any shift work).
It's very strange for me, as even before I did 10 years of uniform shift work, I'd done 5 years as a special - often working up to 30 hours a week - on top of my normal daytime job.
Another problem at the moment is the demographic of officers in the Police service. Every force now has an increasingly younger service, with officers having less service. There is little encouragement/reward to stay on shift, and people do often try and "get out" into a specialist post as quick as they can.
It isn't unknown for whole whifts to be probationers with less than two years' service, and the sergeant only having 3 or 4. There are fewer and fewer "old sweats" for these younger officers to learn from. My own feeling is that people shouldn't be allowed to specialise, or get promoted, until they have at least five years' service as a shift based response patrol offier - it's the bread and butter work, and perhaps the most important (and overlooked) role in the Police.
I certainly don't claim to be better than uniformed shift officers (although there are some I regard myself as better than, but this has nothing to do with being in CID, it's just my own opinion of myself and others).
It isn't unknown for whole whifts to be probationers with less than two years' service, and the sergeant only having 3 or 4. There are fewer and fewer "old sweats" for these younger officers to learn from. My own feeling is that people shouldn't be allowed to specialise, or get promoted, until they have at least five years' service as a shift based response patrol offier - it's the bread and butter work, and perhaps the most important (and overlooked) role in the Police.
I certainly don't claim to be better than uniformed shift officers (although there are some I regard myself as better than, but this has nothing to do with being in CID, it's just my own opinion of myself and others).
mungo said:
It isn't unknown for whole whifts to be probationers with less than two years' service, and the sergeant only having 3 or 4.
That was my shift when I joined it with the exeption of our area car driver
I originally thought it was just in our subdivision, but it's a nationwide problem apparently.
It's a follow on from a review/Royal Commission about 30 years ago, which was followed by massive recruitment. Similar to now - the last intake in my force was 30+ officers (total force is about 3,400 officers).
Dibble said:
It isn't unknown for whole whifts to be probationers with less than two years' service, and the sergeant only having 3 or 4.
That was my shift when I joined it with the exeption of our area car driver
I originally thought it was just in our subdivision, but it's a nationwide problem apparently.
It's a follow on from a review/Royal Commission about 30 years ago, which was followed by massive recruitment. Similar to now - the last intake in my force was 30+ officers (total force is about 3,400 officers).
It is certainly a nationwide problem.......come to think of it, we have 2 new Traffic lads with 2 years service
mungo said:
I do occasionally miss the "rush" sometimes of uniform response work
I had two guys from the marine unit in the back of my car sometime ago - They were helping out with the investigation of an arson on a boat that was in dry dock... as I was driving them back to the nick, control put a call out regarding a robbery in progress in the city... I made towards it and the marine guys were loving it! "Real police work!" one of them exclaimedThey couldn't wait to jump out of the car and catch the bugger!
Not surprised really, not nice going from escorting/searching vessels to picking bodies out of the harbour, boredom to terror in one swoop. Isn't Pompey harbour covered by MoD Plod boats
.The standards for joining all forces have been made national and now only 50% pass the application and 50% of them pass the initial evaluation days. My team had more probationers than substantives but that has quickly changed, with around 50% with less than 4 years service and about 20% probationers. Loads of probationers on my team ended up joining CID or beat crimes, I guess because they couldn't hack uniform work. I still believe that if you can hack uniform work, dealing with incidents as they unfold first on scene you can handle anything, I just hate how devalued it is.
Another thing, Dibble, I totally agree that you should not be able to specialise or do promotion until you have 5 years in but remember that would still vary in experience depending on where you're based. I have 6 years in a very busy London borough and I can certainly say that my experience would be twice that of a PC with 6 years on an outer borough. I also especially despise having people in probation, or just out of probation going to CID, they are suppose to tell us what to do at the scene of a shooting when they wouldn't even know what to do first on scene let alone manage it. Sorry, just one of my many moans with this job.
gemini said:
Must admit - I'm aiming for about 3 to 4 years on shift then I want firearms or support unit
Argh - The worst people to have guns are those that actually want them!
Should be a test "Do you want a gun?"
"Yes"
"Right thats you off the list then!"
You took word out of my fingers Liebchen!
Und lieber mungo - you do not need gun... with your karate chops - und other martial arts - ist more effective surely
But ist quite worrying that these thugs have guns - und I doubt if alll singing und dancing id card will stop them getting these. Swiss have always had id card - und there are areas of crime which would make UK look very tame by comparison.
(Also problem of sorts - all Swiss blokes have been trained how to use guns und "domestics" are very common...
Ist always something in equivalent of StUN!)gemini said:
Must admit - I'm aiming for about 3 to 4 years on shift then I want firearms or support unit
Argh - The worst people to have guns are those that actually want them!
Should be a test "Do you want a gun?"
"Yes"
"Right thats you off the list then!"
Oh how I wished they applied that rule to members of parliament too
. Wasn't it Oscar Wilde that said something along the lines of 'to show an inkling to want to enter politics should be reason enough to ban you from it for life'
HarryW said:
Must admit - I'm aiming for about 3 to 4 years on shift then I want firearms or support unit
Argh - The worst people to have guns are those that actually want them!
Should be a test "Do you want a gun?"
"Yes"
"Right thats you off the list then!"
Oh how I wished they applied that rule to members of parliament too
Wasn't it Oscar Wilde that said something along the lines of 'to show an inkling to want to enter politics should be reason enough to ban you from it for life'
I think it was Billy Connelly
Dibble said:
I recently retired from the Police after serving all of my time in uniform. CID officers consider themselves to be the elite due to the common mis-conception that they are somehow superior policemen to their uniform non-specialised colleagues (excluding trafpol and dog handlers).
Hmmm, so my ten years in uniform count for nothing, eh?
You're just a sprog mate...come back when you start shaving.
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